John Higbie Invents! Watch This (Pt/Pd laser printer)

[Tin Can]

This is a breakthrough


https://vimeo.com/738958237/72f7e8e062

[Tin Can]

platinum scanning-laser printer

[sharktooth]

Very interesting, but obviously way to expensive for a hobbyist. It's not clear from his site what he is doing with this machine. I can't tell if he's offering a printing service, or just doing this for his own stuff.

[Oren Grad]

I edited the title to be more substantive.

He offers a printing service, not cheap (scroll down):

https://artifact-foto.com/info/

[sharktooth]

I edited the title to be more substantive.

He offers a printing service, not cheap (scroll down):

https://artifact-foto.com/info/

Thanks for the link. I was looking at a different site https://www.alternativephotography.com/john-higbie/

It's certainly expensive, but any platinum/palladium is going to be expensive no matter how you do it. Way beyond my reach, but still fascinating none the less.

[Oren Grad]

The premium he charges compared to laser printing to FB silver paper (for example, at Digital Silver Imaging (https://digitalsilverimaging.com/dsi-digital-silver-prints/)) is far beyond the incremental cost of the Pt/Pd materials compared to silver. But AFAIK it's a unique service at this point, and from a commercial perspective it probably makes sense for him to target the high end of the market.

I'm familiar with the look-and-feel of Pt/Pd prints made by contact printing sheet film negatives as well as inkjet internegs. I am curious as to how these compare, but unfortunately can't remotely justify the cost of a print to find out.

[jp]

That's pretty cool!
It appears someone could cut out one layer of variables printing directly to the sensitized paper rather than dealing with internegatives. I think it would still require someone skilled in pt/pd printing to coat the paper with robot consistency.

[sharktooth]

The premium he charges compared to laser printing to FB silver paper (for example, at Digital Silver Imaging (https://digitalsilverimaging.com/dsi-digital-silver-prints/)) is far beyond the incremental cost of the Pt/Pd materials compared to silver. But AFAIK it's a unique service at this point, and from a commercial perspective it probably makes sense for him to target the high end of the market.

I'm familiar with the look-and-feel of Pt/Pd prints made by contact printing sheet film negatives as well as inkjet internegs. I am curious as to how these compare, but unfortunately can't remotely justify the cost of a print to find out.

It's not really fair to compare it to what Digital Silver Imaging does, since they're using industrially made 48" wide rolls of Ilford paper. The machine they run it on probably cost in the millions. The setup costs are going to be relatively low, so the primary cost drivers are image size and machine amortization. This is reflected in their pricing, which roughly follows image size.

On the other hand, these Platinum/Paladium prints still need to be hand coated, and they can only do one at a time on the machine. They will have very high setup cost, and this is also reflected in their pricing, where the larger sizes are only marginally more expensive than the smaller ones. I don't know what it cost him to build that machine, but if you factor in the real costs of time and materials it could easily be over 100 grand. It is a unique and ingenious service, however, and the prices don't seem out of line with that in mind. Still though, far too rich for my blood.

[bob carnie]

This is a breakthrough


https://vimeo.com/738958237/72f7e8e062

Salto in conjunction with a Japanese company have been doing laser pt pt prints for a long time now. This looks very much like how I do my silver gelatin prints on the Durst 76 Lambda, I also make film. Very interesting though Tin Can so thanks for posting

[bob carnie]

It's not really fair to compare it to what Digital Silver Imaging does, since they're using industrially made 48" wide rolls of Ilford paper. The machine they run it on probably cost in the millions. The setup costs are going to be relatively low, so the primary cost drivers are image size and machine amortization. This is reflected in their pricing, which roughly follows image size.

On the other hand, these Platinum/Paladium prints still need to be hand coated, and they can only do one at a time on the machine. They will have very high setup cost, and this is also reflected in their pricing, where the larger sizes are only marginally more expensive than the smaller ones. I don't know what it cost him to build that machine, but if you factor in the real costs of time and materials it could easily be over 100 grand. It is a unique and ingenious service, however, and the prices don't seem out of line with that in mind. Still though, far too rich for my blood.

My lab was fwiw the first lab in the world doing silver gelatin murals via laser , the machine Digital Silver Has was purchased used via a kickstarter campaign, the Durst 76 that I use was purchased in 2001 for $225 K plus all the processing machines to make it viable . I was using Agfa Classic in 2002 , Ilford and Metro Imaging launched their silver paper using a Lambda like mine in 2006 - Digital Silver uses the Ilford Paper. I need to change the wiki page one day on this very little known or cared about fact.

[Oren Grad]

Right, we don't know what fixed costs each needs to amortize.


It is a unique and ingenious service... Still though, far too rich for my blood.

Agree!

[John Layton]

Could be used remotely? Adjusted files sent from wherever to a lazer pt/pd (or silver I'd imagine) printing facility? Finished prints then rolled up and placed in tubes and sent wherever? Hmmm...

[Tin Can]

I'm thinking it may be the cheapest way

but I will never pay that

[Vaughn]

Cool. Not interested in going that route...
...except for the possibility of making books, very expensive books. Along the lines of Carleton Watkins' books of mammoth plate albumin prints.
That would be super cool and need deep-pocketed patrons!

[Michael R]

Cool, but unless for some reason someone wants big Platinum prints, I don’t think it offers anything vs either doing it yourself or skipping the whole silly thing and making inkjet prints. Then again that’s a somewhat more generalized view of Platinum/Palladium printing.

[Vaughn]

One could think of them as very stable inkjet prints, I suppose. I wonder if they'll have the same banding issues. Also, a price comparison per square inch for the cost of the pt/pd vs the ink would be interesting.
He just needs to invent a machine that will spray-coat the pt/pd solution on the paper, dry it, and send it straight to the drum for exposure.

[Thad Gerheim]

Isn't this just like running a drum scanner in reverse? I need to find the reverse switch on my scanner.:o

[jp]

It's a little bit like making printing plates directly. Or the old iris printers which had no problem with banding. Expensive complicated stuff. banding is really a cheap consumer printer artifact or something is all wrong.

[Kiwi7475]

I’m mostly impressed by the ingenuity here, the engineering skills, and the passion — which I’m not clear where it comes from, was he a LF photographer making pt/pd and it came from there? Such a jump from his daily job in terms of application.

Thanks for sharing..

[Vaughn]

My guess is that since he started out with the idea of using silver gelatin paper, he saw that it was already done, and switched to pt/pd to produce something new. In theory, it should work for most UV-exposed alt processes.

I wonder if he is using UVC. That would be too dangerous for normal printing, but it would help keep the exposure 'time' down.

[Alan9940]

Finally watched the video and found it pretty interesting. Regarding the pricing, given the fact that various photographers I know of charge upward of $200 for small pt/pd prints--in the 5x7 range, for example--I don't find his pricing to be way out of range. Yes, pricing may be a little on the high but who's the competition?

[Erik Larsen]

I am amazed at the ingenuity and skill involved in making a machine like this. I wouldn’t have a clue how to do it, I am very impressed! Although I still think a fax machine is voodoo black magic. Honestly I applaud the effort here. I imagine via software adjustments you could expose any uv capable process that would be able to be mounted on the drum. I wonder is this will go anywhere other than one man’s passion?

[Tin Can]

UVC is controlled many places, such as home furnaces, not a problem

and the first iteration of anything is made cheaper as machines are sold

[Sal Santamaura]

...He offers a printing service, not cheap...


...It's certainly expensive...

My perspective is different. For someone who's shooting digital today, but recognizes the long-term challenges of changing image file formats and the fugitive nature of inkjet prints, and who seeks to create a small archive of images that can remain in the hands of descendants for a millennium or longer, this might just be a huge bargain.


Salto in conjunction with a Japanese company have been doing laser pt pt prints for a long time now...

If memory serves, when Michael Smith was working with Salto he wrote that their prints were 600 lines per inch. It would be interesting to know whether Higbie's device exposes at that resolution, greater or less.


Cool, but unless for some reason someone wants big Platinum prints, I don’t think it offers anything vs either doing it yourself or skipping the whole silly thing and making inkjet prints. Then again that’s a somewhat more generalized view of Platinum/Palladium printing.

See my response above to Oren and sharktooth. "Doing it yourself" might apply to some on this forum, but likely not anyone exclusively working with digital imaging.


One could think of them as very stable inkjet prints, I suppose...Very stable prints. Period. The negative connotations of "inkjet" need not be invoked. :)

[Vaughn]

UVC is controlled many places, such as home furnaces, not a problem
...

UVC cannot be safely used in alternative printing processes, unless there is tight control of light 'spillage', as in a contained exposure space (as in zero spillage). Exposure to UVC is very dangerous.

But one of the reasons I was wondering is because both UVB and UVC are mostly blocked glass (another reason not to use it)...but since his device is 'glass-less' (and normally covered), I was curious.