My DIY 8x10 Frankencamera

[Paul Kinzer]

After many months of experimentation and learning, I've finally finished the camera I started putting together last winter. I built it as a sort of prototype for the 14x17 camera that I hope to start on one day. I have 200msheets of 8x10 x-ray film, and 100 sheets of 14x17, and I bought the film first. Silly, I know.

To make this 8x10 camera, I had to teach myself to use my metal lathe and milling machine. Before that, I had to get them to work, and before that, I had to find machines I could afford to buy. So, it's actually been a project in the works for several years.

I took a boatload of images of the camera today, and of the things that go with it. Here's one to get started.

[Paul Kinzer]

The parts I put together come from several other cameras. The front standard and the round rail are from a Toyo View 45G. The rear used to be for a Toyo 45D, and I modified it by stretching it out to hold an 8x10 back with aluminum channels. I found out fairly quickly that the back was quite wobbly, so I added the brass rods you can see on the top. They allow me to stabilize the back by securing it to the rock-solid front standard. The rectangular piece in the middle slides smothly on the rods until I tighten it down with set screws made for telescope focusers. This system woks okay, but will be no good on a larger camera.

The wood is Sapele, which I found to be really nice to work with. I made the lens cap for my 360mm f/5.6 Symmar Convertible lens on my metal lathe, using metal lathe tools and sandpaper. It worked really well. The maroon colored aluminum was advertised as 'bronze' in color. This project was also the first wherein I did my own anodizing of aluminum, another skill I taught myself through trial and error. Flash photography really brings out the flaws. I think it looks better than it appears hear. Anodizing makes the aluminum much more scratch resistant, and prevents corrosion. And right after a piece leaves the anodizing bath, dyeing it is very simple, so why not do it? The dye cost only $10, and will keep for years if stored right.

Here's my next photo:

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[Paul Kinzer]

In that photo and the one below, you can see the rotatable back. It's from yet another camera: an old Burke and James. It was painted a dull gray when I got it, so I stripped, stained, and finished it with polyurethane. I think it's mahogany.

The bellows, by the way, were made for me by Custom Bellows UK. I had wanted to try making my own, but could not find a suitable material that would be both flexible and opaque enough to make look decent. In these photos, the 360mm lens is focused to infinity.

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[Paul Kinzer]

I made the ground glass protector, as well as the brass handle (in fact, I made most of the brass parts, including the knobs). That is a particularly unattractive photo in the last post, with the flash bouncing straight back into the digital camera. The protector is held in place with small neodymium magnets in the corners.

made the ground glass by going to the thrift store, buying two 8x10 frames for $2.00 each, and grinding them with telescope mirror grinding grit. I've made many 4x5 ground glass sheets, but, boy, I was using the wrong grit! For those, I used rock-tumbling grit left over from my son's childhood tumbler. Each sheet would take a good half hour of hard work. For this camera, I took both sheets and rubbed them together, with the grit and some water in between. It took over a half hour, but the work wasn't hard, and I ended up with two very bright sheets. The grid lines are one-inch squares, drawn with pencil.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here's another view, going around the camera.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Another. And here you can see the simple bellows support I made (the wooden piece under them). It works well in most bellows positions.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here's a closer look beneath the camera standards and bellows. The thick brass bar is supposed to keep the top aluminum plate fro flexing when it's extended. It works, but not as well as I'd hoped.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here, I've mounted my 210mm f/5.6 Fujinon W lens, and focused it to infinity. This is as close as I plan to push the bellows toward the rear standard, and I'm using the shortest brass support rods for it. I use automotive Heim joints at the ends of the rods, since they allow for a wide range of motion, but are very stable where they are meant to be.

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[Paul Kinzer]

And now I've attached my 760mm f/14 Rodenstock Apo Romar, again focused to infinity. I bought this lens for the 14x17 camera, but it shows how much the bellows can be drawn out when all three plates are extended.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Looking more closely at the 760mm lens here, you can see that I've mounted it on a 'shutter' I made out of an old 3x4 Anniversary Speed Graphic camera, which fits nicely between the uprights of the 45G front standard. I posted (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?145819-Shutter-and-front-Standard-for-my-DIY-ULF) about this 'shutter' here when i made it, more than four years ago.

230894

[Paul Kinzer]

The shutter, like the 8x10 back, can be mounted in two different orientations, since it's mounted on a square Toyo lensboard. The particular lens in this image is a Wollensak enlarging lens. I want to experiment with this camera by taking extreme close-ups, using several different lenses that I've gotten for almost nothing. None are meant to cover 8x10, but for close work, that should be fine.

230895

[Paul Kinzer]

Here, I've stretched the bellows to just about their fullest extent, just over a meter (about 42 inches). I know it will take a lot of light, and long exposure time, but I'm curious to see just how large I can go on a sheet of film.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Now I'll upload a few images showing the extension plates.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here's a look underneath. I made 'pockets' in the 1/4-inch thick aluminum, to save on weight without lessening strength. The camera is still heavier than I'd like, but since I see myself mostly using it inside, that's okay.

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[Paul Kinzer]

And here's look underneath the back. I made a hinge back here, to allow me to fold the camera. I may need to re-visit this because it is not as sturdy as I want it to be. The small black knobs have 1/4 - 20 threaded rods, like a camera tripod. I think theat, if I re-make this part, with longer plates for the knob/bolts to attach to, it will be more solid.

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[Paul Kinzer]

The following three photos show why the hinged, folding aspect of the camera might be more trouble than it's worth. In order to fold it closed, the front standard, and the tube it rides on, need to be removed from the camera.

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[Paul Kinzer]

To remove the tube, I need to first take off that rear brass part, by removing the knurled nuts that hold it down.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Finally, I can pull out the black ring, so that the camera can be folded.

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[Paul Kinzer]

I may post more tomorrow, but it's time for bed!

[pjd]

The last few attachments aren't visible or accessible (at least for me), but I like what I saw. Wouldn't mind a few photos of the mill / lathe setup, too, do you have any images of parts in fabrication? I admire this sort of approach, though I go to a venerable machinist and ask someone else to make parts for me.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Very Cool. Since you have an original factory Norma 360mm Compound Automatic Iris lens, you should get a Norma Shutter to put behind the Front Standard. :)

Fabulous!

[Paul Kinzer]

Well, I made a blunder last night by not sizing my images properly, so they got rejected. I've gone through and re-inserted proper sized photos, so I hope things are better!

pjd: I'll post an image or two of the mill and lathe, but I didn't take any of the actual process of this build.

Daniel: I know almost nothing about the Norma shutter. I looked around a bit online, but I'm wondering if you could point me to a good place to learn more. What I've found so far has been confusing because it's been threads between folks who already know something about it.

[Paul Kinzer]

I'll continue now with some more about the camera.

This next image shows most of the things I've put together for this project, including the closed and secured part of the camera, plus the various lengths of brass rod I've made for differing extensions of the bellows.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here's a sort of graphical arrangements of my lenses for this outfit. The top row has those with their own shutters, mounted on Toyo boards. The bottom row has those I've mounted on 1/4-inch Baltic birch, to fit into the 3x4 Speed Graphic shutter. And the lenses are arranged from left to right in order of their focal length: 760mm f/14 Apo Ronar, 485mm f/9 Apo Romar, 360mm f/5.6 (620mm f/12) Symmar Convertible, [the 3x4 shutter], 210mm f/5.6 Fujinon W, 162mm f/4.5 Wollensak Enlarging Raptar, 135mm f/4.5 Wollensak Enlarging Raptar, 105mm f/4.5 Tominon [made for a medical specimen camera], and a Tominon 75mm f/4.5 close-up lens.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here's a closer image of some of the wooden things I made: the bellows supporter and the two lens caps. The smaller cap has two lips because it needs to go over two not-so-deep rings on the 485mm lens. I might make more of these; it was really fun to watch them so quickly take form, and wood is much more forgiving of impreciseness. That's a Good Thing for someone like me, who is just starting out with these tools.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here's a different view of the same items.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Next, some views of the back. Here, you can see the ground glass back rotated.

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[Gord Robinson]

Your attachments in the last two post comes back with an error message - Invalid Attachment specified.

[Gord Robinson]

You have a done a great job the camera. Well thought out and a nice camera to look at for its size. I was particularly interested in your method of making the ground glass. I have been enjoying the detailed posts as the project progressed. Nice work.

[Paul Kinzer]

And here is a view of the inside of the ground glass protector, with the magnets in the corners. They hold it on pretty well, but I think I'm going to put four more on it, in the mid-points of each side, where there are corresponding steel bits on the Burke and Jame back. I don't find the current set-up quite strong enough. I made this protector out of 1/8 and 1/4 inch thick Sapele, and the wood sits back a fair distance from the glass, to avoid flexing and possible breaking of the glass. I was pleasantly surprised to find the Sapele very reasonably priced by a seller on eBay. It is very stiff: much stiffer than the Baltic birch plywood. And it machines really well, too.

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[Daniel Unkefer]

"Daniel: I know almost nothing about the Norma shutter. I looked around a bit online, but I'm wondering if you could point me to a good place to learn more. What I've found so far has been confusing because it's been threads between folks who already know something about it. "



Hi Paul,

Buy a copy of the original instruction book. Here's a decent deal

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313957695026?hash=item4919563e32:g:HuwAAOSw90piH52B&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoPW%2F%2F%2FJ0pU1HJCHaPE%2B03OBjZiolkfcgVqySRojyl3jd%2BO%2BgLnKokIpecJtXFzLMh2t6Jx073eol7%2BBfWVr1pbyrxPuEWu%2BB5XU1b7kuOVoBUZvjx89gOFmgnA2vs6Sy0IVV7C5yF6yi9BkFh5E%2FiS6DqnrR%2BTgreEkqK7eJiCZIOwqu0VxkpiMd52miII6Sh7KXYcZ8DUf3v9mYGEN2dD8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5iShK_oYA

[Paul Kinzer]

Thanks, Gord! Yes, the ground glass was not hard at all. I'm sort of puzzled, too, as to why pretty much all of the sources I found on making it yourself tell you to use a thicker scrap piece of glass to do the grinding. Using two sheets of the proper size gives you a spare for no more effort. As long as the two sheets are supported well on a flat surface, they grind very well. I made sure to rinse off the grit periodically, in order to see progress, and where the low spots were that still needed leveling/blurring. Plate glass is not optically flat, of course, but it's close enough that not much needs to be removed for this purpose. It actually looks better, to my eye, than ground glass I've purchased. It gives very bright, smooth viewing.

I've got just a couple of images left of the camera. This one shows a more attractive view of the ground glass protector in place. I made the brass handle out of roughed up chunks. I don't mind blemishes and patina on things; it means I don't have to worry about keeping things spotless.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Finally, here's the piece i made to hold the camera on the tripod. It's based on a telescope 'dovetail' mount. There is a rail on the camera that it locks onto, which allows me to slide the camera a bit to improve balance.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here, just to finish up, but a little off-topic, is a photo of my 1954 Montgomery Wards 24-inch metal lathe, made by the Logan mfg company. So, it's about the age of some of the photo equipment I own.

This machine was in almost working condition when I bought it. So, after some modifications to get it moving again, I left it with its 'patina', too.

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[Paul Kinzer]

And here's an image of my 1960 Clausing 8520 milling machine, taken completely to bits. I put more work into this machine than any job I've ever done; replacing every bearing, stripping every surface down to the metal and then re-painting it a more pleasing color.

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[Paul Kinzer]

Here's the after photo. I've since added digital read outs on all three axes. Between them, these two machines were what made this camera possible.

I've made some plans for the bigger camera, most of which are still in my head, and this project has really helped me see just where I need to make things more stable/supported. For one thing, the huge back will need triangular truss support of some kind on the edges. And, rather than the too-flexible aluminum plate, I think I'll be using extruded linear rail. It's amazingly inexpensive! (https://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot-linear-rail-1/) So are the parts that connect these types of things together. I need to do a lot of thinking and drawing, which is one of my favorite things to do! I already have one 14x17 film back (which I hope to use to build a couple/few more), and bellows that could be used to make a 16x20 camera. I'll make the camera body big enough for that (why not?), but cannot see myself ever paying the $40 per sheet that it costs (at least in my quick online search just now).

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[Paul Kinzer]

Daniel at post #31: Thanks for the link! Before spending any money, I'll do some more looking around. I don't think it's something I'll actually get around to pursuing; I have plenty on my plate already!

I retired a few months ago. I'm the same age as my milling machine. It's taking time to realize that, for the most part, I get to choose my own schedule now. But I'm getting used to it, and liking it very much. I've never had a paying job wherein I made things with my hands, but now I spend much of my time doing just that, and it's so rewarding.

[Gord Robinson]

That is a great restoration job that you did on the milling machine.

[Paul Kinzer]

Thanks, Gord! It took months, but I've used it enough now that I don't notice every scratch I put onto it. It's completely opened my mind to the things I can now consider making.

[Torontoamateur]

It os a wonderful invention. Patentable for sure

[Fr. Mark]

Congratulations on the fine camera build and machine tool restorations! Have you considered making your own film as a way to tame costs and increase artistic control? It is on my list of "must do's" for the future. If you can do the work you show above, you can learn to handle the chemicals safely. I'll look forward to seeing what you do in the future. P.S. I'm a Dobsonian mount Newtonian guy when it comes to scopes, but the refractor guys I've known (and SCT's) all like those kind of mounting plates. I think you are smart to adapt it to LF camera use.

[John Layton]

This is so inspiring! Great use of those heim joints for extra support. Also a very nice job rehabbing the lathe and milling machine.

In my dreams I'd have a combination machine/wood shop with all the fixins. Was actually "gifted" an older Bridgeport milling machine years ago - as Dartmouth College's machine shop had to make space for a new one which an alum had donated. But I had to turn this down due to logistical issues. Also had to turn down a Hardinge lathe - which was not free but 150.00 with lots of attachments. Ugh!

[neil poulsen]

I'm wondering why you didn't use the Toyo rail system for expanding the camera and bellows? Versus your customized wood system.

There are characteristics of Toyo G cameras that make it an excellent framework for customizing a larger, wood back. I once had a Toyo G 8x10 camera. It came with a Wisner 8x20 wood back (and film holders) that could easily be swapped with the 8x10 format frame to make the larger (actually massively larger) format.

My ownership of that kit lasted for one photograph, and I was done (in)! As I recall, I made a financial profit after it sold. But, I don't think that it really compensated for the emotional strain that I experienced with that one, brief, ULF encounter.