Using Hasselblad B60 (Proxar & Softar) on 4x5

[dzulu]

I have a full set of B60 proxar and softars.
Getting started on 4x5 and curious if you gents/ladies have used the above on LF lenses.

What are your observations on the image outcome?
I found an adapter by Heliopan 62mm-B60 at ~$100. Other options available?

Thanks in advance!

[Bernice Loui]

Not particulariy useful for view cameras.

Hasselblad Proxar are "close up" diopters used to allow closer focusing with Hasselblad lenses. This is required for cameras with a lens mounted to a fixed box camera like the Hasselblad, alternative being using a lens extension tube. Typical view camera has a bellows and attatchmet of a wide variety of lenses and making the effective distance between lens to film holder variable and not fixed like the Hasselblad. To achieve closer focusig of subject to film plane, simply extend the camera's lenght between lens to film plane, done. Close up diopters like the Hasselblad Proxars can be used to reduce camera/bellows draw to allow for closer focusing. If the camera has plenty of extension and bellows for the lens focal lenght being used applying optical aids ala Proxar or diopters is not needed in any way.

Similar applies to Sifters, yes they can be used. Compared to the universe of true soft focus lenses made for and available for sheet film view cameras, IMO FAR better results comes from properly using soft focus lenses. Soft focus filters like Softars are more of a visual aid than what is achieved with a true soft focus lens.

B60 implies Hasselblad CF lenses. There are plenty of B60 to threaded adapters. Think the most common was B60 to 67mm.
Ideas/habits from using fixed lens, box based cameras do not always directly transfer to this LF view camera stuff.


Bernice








I have a full set of B60 proxar and softars.
Getting started on 4x5 and curious if you gents/ladies have used the above on LF lenses.

What are your observations on the image outcome?
I found an adapter by Heliopan 62mm-B60 at ~$100. Other options available?

Thanks in advance!

[Greg]

On a similar note, I have gotten great results from using lenses off folding 122, 620, 616, etc. cameras. The Kodak No. 3 Autographic model C folding camera is a great one to acquire. Its 122 film size was 3 1/4" x 5 1/5". Lenses come with a shutter with usually T, B, 1/25, and 1/50 shutter speeds which. I always shoot wide open, since by stopping down you get a sharp image with none of the "vintage" Bokeh. Look for ones which the bellows has been trashed, since you'll only be using the lens and shutter on your 4x5 camera. Current project is a no name 4x5 box camera with a single element lens and T and I speed settings. Finally got the 5 part (2 wires, one spring, and 2 pieces of metal) shutter to work "reliably". Now to have the two 1 1/8" x 1 3/8" finder mirrors resurfaced to be able to use the two finders.

[xkaes]

Some people like "soft-focus" filters, some don't. There are a TON of different types of SF filters -- and they all come in different strengths. The Softars are just one type -- and also come in different strengths. Hoya, and perhaps others, made SF filters using the same technique as the Softars.

If you search the web, you'll find a lot of photographers that swear by them. But they are really only usable/useful for certain situations/subjects. Fortunately, portraits are the place where they work the best. Why? Because the nature of the Softar soft-focus technique works best with longer focal length, wide-aperture lenses. If you are using a lens that is stopped down or normal-to-wide-angle, the results are horrible -- because of the way they work.

So if your objective is portraits with wide-aperture lenses, they might work for you.

You might want to check out:

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/softfocus.htm (http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/softfocus.htm)

As to using Proxars, as mentioned, just add more bellows extension to get close-up -- instead of using a supplementary lens like a Proxar. If you run out of bellows and want to get closer, it's better to use a shorter focal length lens -- hopefully one designed to close-up magnification. But if neither of these are options for you, the Proxars will work FINE -- no change in exposure needed.

[J. Patric Dahlen]

Zeiss used to make Proxar lenses as simple wide angle attachments for large format cameras. The also made negative diopter lenses called Distars to increase the focal length of the camera lens. Other manufacturers made similar attachments. Maybe this type of use it not for you, but Proxars and Distars can still be of use for old plate cameras with fixed lenses.

[Bernice Loui]

Keep in mind these optical add ons are needed for fixed lens-box cameras as they do not have the capabilities and abilities of a LF view camera. These optical aids can absolutely used on any view camera, are they needed most often not as there are direct optical solutions that can meet the image goal needs far better than applying an optical aid.

This is one of the primary diffences between any fixed lens/box camera -vs- the universe of view cameras where it's camera to support lens/optics required to meet a given image goal.


Bernice

[dzulu]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

Good point on using the proxar to compensate for bellow length if needed.

I will have to try out the softar and see what the outcome looks like.

Anyone aware of options for a converter xx-mm to B60 (not B60 to xx-mm)? I only found one by Heliopan.

[BrianShaw]

I actually encourage you to try the softar. For portraits it’s often useful, especially Softar 1. The others, to me, are a bit too much. But maybe recreating David Hamilton style pics are your thing… who know? To temporarily attach why not use blue painters tape? If you like it might be better to get a softar in another threaded mount that will either directly fit your lens or work in a more easily sourced adapter.

[BrianShaw]

… and since @xkaes mentions the large diversity of SF filters… if you like the notion it’s worth seeking out a variety. I tried out about a dozen and finally found what works best for me: duto, followed by Tiffen SoftFX1 and Softar1. All have minor and observable differences in effect.

If you really, really like SF… a “real SF lens” is optimal. That’s another topic fraught with profound opinions. :)

[LabRat]

There are a wide variety of inexpensive import adapters online these days (RAF + others), so keep searching, or try tape as mentioned... Soft filters can be interesting to lower contrast or soften sharpness (look up what cinematographers do with them)... And the C/U adapters can give some extra wide angle relief when needed, but might change the marked f setting...

Worth a try...

Steve K

[Bernice Loui]

Hasselblad normalized their filter system, Initially B50. With the introduction of the CF series and prontor shutters, filters got a bit bigger with the B60. The non shutter "F" lenses normalized in B70. There are exceptions to the Hasselblad filter system.. generally, Hasselblad lenses tend to stay with a normalized filter size. The B60 filters on Hasselblad CF fit lenses from 50mm to 250mm, good rational system in many ways.. Except this system does not transfer well to the world of LF view camera stuff.

B60 adapters are often 67mm thread. This limits what view camera lenses could be used with the B60/67mm threaded filter system. There are view camera lenses that are tiny with a filter thread size of 49mm or smaller or no filter threads at all. On the larger end, filter thread sizes can go up to 135mm or larger or again no filter threads at all.

Remaning with the B60/67mm thread filter size is essentially tail wagging the dog as filter size limits will impose limits on what view camera lenses can be used.

~The more pernent and importaing question/disussion would be image goals and the lenses that fit these needs/goals... which goes far beyond the limits of imposing the B60 filter system.

As for the Softars, never liked them much. They were ok. IMO, best of these were the Tiffen FX series.. Compared to the universe of soft focus lenses specific to view cameras, none of the softening filter or add-ons produce the same image results.. Softening filters are an aid at Best compared to true soft focus lenses.


Bernice

[ic-racer]

Large format is an optical system, just like medium format. The results of using those will be similar as they will work the same on a view camera as they do an SLR.

[Ron-D]

Keep in mind that 99% of the B60-xxmm adapters you get convert a normal threaded filter for use on a Hasselblad lens with a B60 filter mount. To use a B60 filter on a lens with a threaded front you'll need to get an appropriately threaded male-male adapter.

[xkaes]

You might want to check out Minolta multi-coated Portrayer filters -- only available in 55mm and 72mm sizes

GENERAL

Both P and S Types of Minolta Portrayers are sophisticated special-effect phase filters applying state-of-art technology in wave optics. Each type consists of a special compound coated on a plane optical-glass surface in scientifically determined patterns to precisely controlled microscopic thickness. Type P provides, for the first time ever, a primary-selective diffusion effect that is useful for smoothing human skin tones, etc. in colour photographs. Type S Portrayers, on the other hand, yield an overall diffusion effect while preserving basic image sharpness, unlike conventional soft-focus filters. Usable on either camera or enlarging lenses, both types are supplied in sets of the filters grade-numbered to indicate the degree of effect, and in standard sizes of 55 or 72mm diameters.

FEATURES

Filter effect remains the same whatever lens aperture is used.
SLR viewfinder focusing aids can be used normally as without a filter.
Exposure and overall image colour balance are hardly affected.
Each filter can be used with similar effect on enlarging lenses for colour-negative or -positive projection printing, as well as on cameras.

ATTACHING

These filters are attached by simply screwing them on over lenses having suitably threaded front mounting rings of 55 or 72mm diameter, as of most Minolta inter-changeable SLR lenses. For other lenses, an accessory step-down adapter (available from many photo-product outlets) may be used or other means improvised, as with enlarging lenses. For this latter use, a holder attachment, as for variable-contrast filters, is preferable to tape or such means likely to damage Portrayer surfaces upon contact.

EFFECTS
Type P (grades P1, P2, P3)

Specially developed for portraits, Type P filters are the world’s first for selectively smoothing colour photographic images of human skin tones. These P-type Portrayers are supplied in a set of three filters, each of different grade.The filter designated “P1” on its rim produces the subtlest effects; “P2”, medium smoothing; and “P3”, the smoothest effect with a single filter. Two or three filters may also be screwed on one over the other to yield a more pronounced effect. All are intended for use with lenses having angles of view between 20° and 30°, e.g., focal length of 85 to 135mm with full-frame 35mm, or 300 to 500mm on 4×5 cameras. Using the filter(s) with lenses of greater focal length with increase the effect, while their effect will decrease when used with lenses of less focal length.

NOTE

Since individual taste and effect desired determine the appropriate filter grade to be used, pre-testing is recommended to select the filter number most appropriate for a given lens and subjects.
Greenish or magenta-tinted fringes on bright highlights indicate too great a degree of filtration, which may be reduced at any focal length by using the next lower filter number available.
In photographing or enlarging with black-and-white film, smoothing effects are not limited to only skin tones.