Photography is a Top Driver in Silver Demand, Showing Film’s Resurgence

[Tin Can]

https://petapixel.com/2022/09/01/photography-is-a-top-driver-in-silver-demand-showing-films-resurgence/

[John Layton]

So if this trend continues will this mean lower film/paper prices? Or (more likely perhaps) at least these prices creeping upwards a bit more slowly? A bit more R+D perhaps...not specifically to save $$...but for actual (and meaningful to the end users - us) product improvements? Any or all of these outcomes would be fantastic!

[Alan Klein]

How much silver is used in T grain BW film like Tmax compared to let;s say the older emulsions like TRi-X? What about E6 dyes colors like Ektachrome?

[Tin Can]

Easy, buy one of these and write a procedure

Mettler Toledo XPR56 Micro-Analytical Balance, 52 g x 0.001 mg (https://www.hogentogler.com/mettler-toledo/mettler-toledo-xpr56-micro-analytical-balance.asp?gclid=Cj0KCQjw08aYBhDlARIsAA_gb0fBVbcuTBZtSu7RTHl3TfxZgpQMtAbh4V1YLfLSYNXRtUyo4SLN524aAmSPEALw_wcB)

I was doing that with teflon tape solids after burnoff in a platinum crucible age 19


How much silver is used in T grain BW film like Tmax compared to let;s say the older emulsions like TRi-X? What about E6 dyes colors like Ektachrome?

[Kevin Crisp]

I was astounded to recently find that a single sheet of 8x10 Tri-x is about $16. (Freestyle)

[koraks]

From the article:

But in 2021, the use of silver for the purposes of photography actually rose 3% over the previous year
Interesting; that's the closest to a firm number I suppose we can get on how the film industry has been developing. Note that it includes x-ray which apparently for some reason has seen growth as well after a long period of decline. I suppose it's not due to our mammoth thread about it here on LFPF...

I also wonder how this relates to the sentiment that is sometimes expressed on places like Photrio where the suggestion is created that the film revival is massive and would involve things like double-digit growth. 3% is growth alright, I suppose. Or are the effects of limiting factors such as supply chain disruptions, lack of qualified personnel and equipment/maintenance problems putting a firm lock on film production growth? I know that there's a lot of unfulfilled demand. Talk to anyone who's in the business of selling film and they'll tell you demand isn't the problem - supply is.


So if this trend continues will this mean lower film/paper prices?
Of all expectations, this is the least likely one.

[paulbarden]

I was astounded to recently find that a single sheet of 8x10 Tri-x is about $16. (Freestyle)

It’s been years since I’ve even considered buying Kodak sheet films, given that Ilford is half the price. No compelling reasons to choose Tri-X over FP4, for my purposes.

[Drew Wiley]

Petrochemical-related cost increases are a major factor today, especially the film base itself. Color film and paper uses relatively little silver per comparable surface area. Plant maintenance and re-tooling, etc - now that's gotta be a huge part of it, unless we want to see the Kodak coating operation fall apart through maintenance neglect like the Efke plant did. Supply chains are a mess right now. Every little missing link in the chain has consequences - either mfg slowdown or higher rates for limited supply. If that is crippling the major auto makers with a lot of clout, what do you think it's doing to niche businesses like film makers?

At the moment I need another box of 8x10 Portra 160 for making contact internegatives, but at around $35 per sheet for film and processing ... Yikes! Guess I'll procrastinate and just go out and shoot some of the 8x10 Ektar I already have on hand, which doesn't need to go through an interneg to print. Well, I won't do even that until the price of gas drops more and tempts me on a worthy road trip. In the meantime, there's always 4x5, and in 8x10, at least comparatively affordable black and white film. Glad I have a big stash of 8x10 TMax in the freezer too. No way I'd opt for Triassic-X in this day and age.

[interneg]

How much silver is used in T grain BW film like Tmax compared to let;s say the older emulsions like TRi-X?

About the same per square metre, but relative to the quantity used more silver per square metre is fully available for sensitisation - in other words, you can make an ISO 100 film, but if you can sensitise all the silver, you get an ISO 400 with the signal: noise ratio of a conventional ISO 100. The custom organic chemicals used at various stages from precipitation to finishing/ coating may be a bigger influence on cost (some make gold look very cheap).


What about E6 dyes colors like Ektachrome?

Quite a lot more than a negative film.

X-Ray and Lithographic films have much higher silver levels than any regular B&W camera negative film has ever contained (hence why those industries were significant in terms of silver recovery) in order to deliver the high contrast results demanded.

[Mark Sawyer]

Silver nitrate is still cheap, under $1/gram when buying 1/2 pound or more.

[Two23]

Petrochemical-related cost increases are a major factor today, especially the film base itself. Color film and paper uses relatively little silver per comparable surface area. Plant maintenance and re-tooling, etc - now that's gotta be a huge part of it, unless we want to see the Kodak coating operation fall apart through maintenance neglect like the Efke plant did. Supply chains are a mess right now. Every little missing link in the chain has consequences - either mfg slowdown or higher rates for limited supply. If that is crippling the major auto makers with a lot of clout, what do you think it's doing to niche businesses like film makers?

At the moment I need another box of 8x10 Portra 160 for making contact internegatives, but at around $35 per sheet for film and processing ... Yikes! Guess I'll procrastinate and just go out and shoot some of the 8x10 Ektar I already have on hand, which doesn't need to go through an interneg to print. Well, I won't do even that until the price of gas drops more and tempts me on a worthy road trip. In the meantime, there's always 4x5, and in 8x10, at least comparatively affordable black and white film. Glad I have a big stash of 8x10 TMax in the freezer too. No way I'd opt for Triassic-X in this day and age.


I just arrived in Western Missouri. Gas is $3.28, How about a road trip here?:D


Kent in SD

[Drew Wiley]

No thanks. A bit too far. My aging butt wouldn't enjoy that long a haul on the truck seat. I'd be happy this autumn just to get in a decent loop over the top and into the desert with the 8x10 for a little while. Once it's down to four bucks a gallon average, that's fine. Even in the best of years it can be over six in some remoter locations. The tricky thing is really the weather and the fires - one just doesn't know anymore. But in former years late October or early Nov was often nice because flashfloods in the canyons quiet down, and there is a fair amount of fall color left. But extreme drought has probably screwed up that formula, and the arrival of early blizzards is always a possibility too. Plus a lot of backroad washout probably haven't been fixed yet. I basically just want to reconnect with some raw geology color that places like Missouri aren't know for. If push comes to shove, I could just drive down the freeway an hour and fill in an application for any Space-X trip scheduled for the moon, and then watch my credit card limit bounce all the way there by itself.

[esearing]

I watched the photographers shoot countless frames at my daughters wedding last night and never had the urge to pick up one of their cameras even though they told me I could - nor want to edit the 5 hours of video or the mind numbing quantity of shots. Film photography now lives on the same plane as painting , sculpting, fly fishing, stamp collecting, and model railroad building. We do it for the joy and challenges it brings us. I no longer look at digital images the same way I look at a hand processed/printed photograph.