Aperture question - Scheimpflug - Portraits / Portraiture

[Ig Nacio]

Hi,

How are you? I hope doing very well : )!!!

Many years ago I took a photography workshop
that gave an overview about photography. We
had three teachers during a week. The day before
the last, we, ten people, had a very brief intro to
commercial photography. With a view camera,
a Sinar, and a lens aperture of f/5.6, the instructor
made two different photos: a product photography
with a 2XXmm. lens, and afterwards an interior
architecture photo of the foyer. The latter shot was
made with a 90mm. lens.

I remember him, head covered, working the ground-
glass and saying a few times: 'Scheimpflug'. So the
word kind of stuck in my mind.

I was able to keep the polaroids of the two shots.
I remember him removing the cloth from his head
and saying that he could keep the aperture as wide
open as possible while using 'scheimpflug' to determine
the desired depth of field.

I wonder if you use 'Scheimpflug' to 'mark' your depth
of field when doing portraiture. That in order to work with
an aperture of f/5.6 or similar. For example, I mark from
point 'A' to point 'C', and point 'B', somewhere in between,
is my subject.

I have a field camera, no 'Scheimpflug' is possible.
I have to step down in order to get depth of field.

Please tell me if you use 'Scheimpflug' for portraiture.
To be on the safer side I always use f/16 or f/22 for my
photos, but I wouldn't mind start using a camera that
may allow for 'Scheimpflug', if it is worth it.

For me, it would be worth it if it allows me to 'mark' a
desired depth of field while maintaining an aperture
value of f/5.6, or similar.

What do you think, is it worth it to have a camera that
can do 'Scheimpflug', or not really?

Thank you very much in advance, kind regards!

P.S. I have posed this question as an aperture or lens question,
because it has to do with working with lenses and its lower/lowests
aperture values.

Keywords: Aperture, Scheimpflug, Portraits, Portraiture

Thank you again : )!!!

[BrianShaw]

Keywords: Never, For, Portraiture

[Tin Can]

but....!

the 1972 Rittreck 5X7 has 1 degree of Micro tilt for maniacs


Rear standard:
28 mm shift left and right (actually a lot more than that but the scale only marks that much)
18 degree swing each side (also more than that but will go off the scale)
25 degrees tilt forward and backward
1 degree micro tilt backward

some years ago I was told it was for portraits

I have one, never could find that precision with my eyes

http://4nalog.blogspot.com/2019/06/going-large-5x7-or-13x18-cm-format.html

[djdister]

Even field cameras can do a little bit of Scheimpflug, but using that effect for:

- Architecture, check.
- Landscape, check.
- Still Life, check.
- Portraiture, nope. (unless going for some odd effect)

[Bob Salomon]

Scheimpflug and depth of field are two different things.
Depth of field is controlled only by your aperture. Every camera, of every size, that has a lens with an adjustable aperture can set and control depth of field.
Schempflug is control of the plane of sharp focus. Any camera with front or rear swings and tilts can do Scheimpflug. Any camera without those movements can not control the plane of sharp focus.

[Bernice Loui]

Having produced thousands of portraits with 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, 6x9_120 roll film and 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 sheet film cameras with color and B&W film never found the need to apply Scheimpflug aka camera movement ... ever.


Bernice

[Mark Sawyer]

The Scheimpflug Principle presumes a two-dimensional subject. In the three-dimensional world, with things projecting off the flat plane of sharp focus, those watching the Photographer's frustration may experience the Schadenfreude Principle.

[Ulophot]

Ig Nacio, interesting question. Bob S. answered it respecting the principle above. If you have a field camera with tilt or swing ability, as noted, you can employ what is properly known as the Scheimpflug principle. Your first step is to research it so that you know what it does and how it works in principle. For this, I would recommend a view camera book that will explain the difference between front and rear tilts as they affect the shape of the subject.

Once you understand the Scheimpflug principle in general. it takes practice to learn to use it with some facility with the lenses you use and the subjects you photograph. I will respectfully take exception to the opinions voiced above, that it is never needed, or should never be used in portraiture. This view, I think, first of all assume portraiture to be limited primarily to tightly cropped images of the face or head and shoulders compositions. Portraits typically fall into this range, but there are to many approaches to portraiture, including compositions that include more of the environment, for example, that may benefit from use of the Scheimpflug principle.

I would not, in any case, rule it out immediately. Like any aspect of our art, the vision of the artist can often violate this convention or that and yet succeed in creating an image not only of power but perhaps also of enduring value touching on the universals of human experience.

I hope this is helpful.

[r.e.]

Hi Ig Nacio,

If you haven't come across Harold Merklinger, his books are helpful, and available in .PDF form at http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/

[Ulophot]

With all due respect to r.e., be aware that the Merklinger books, while indeed well written and unusual in that they explain the "hinge rule," which determines the angle of the plane of sharp focus for a given amount of tilt, use a considerable amount of what I will call advanced math and tables based upon these calculations. You may be completely at home with this. However, if you are just finding out about the Scheimpflug principle, you may find a book like Steve Simmons's (https://www.amazon.com/Using-View-Camera-Creative-Photography/dp/1626540772) a better starting point.

To each his own in this respect. I found Merklinger's approach difficult, to say the least, to apply in actual practice. His table, for instance may indicate 1.5degrees of tilt to achieve a certain result. Working with a wooden field camera, wondering where that might be, or trying to visualize the location of the relevant subterranean line and tilt accordingly, were operations that I was not successful in mastering.

There is good information on achieving near-to-far depth-of-field on the home page here, https://www.largeformatphotography.info/fstop.html. It's just another approach to the same end.

[Ig Nacio]

Hi,

Thank you for your messages and book recommendations : )!!! I really appreciate them!

It is really a relief that I don't have to worry about having a LF format camera with
movements when my main interest is photographing single individuals or small groups.
I just need to focus and add depth of field.

As I mentioned, it caught my attention because lower aperture values were used, or so
I recall it, and my f-stop does not go below f/22. So, that the instructor at that time
talked about using aperture values such as f/5,6 and f/8 appealed to me, as it would
appeal to me now.

I will read more into it and get back to you.

Thank you again, kind regards,

Ig Nacio : )!!!

[Ig Nacio]

P.D. An interesting portrait in the following link. Please notice the description,
it is not f/5,6, nor f/8, but f/11, what I find quite good. One does not need to
go to f/16 or f/22 for a portrait:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tobykey/51480843540/in/photolist-2mrbMdG-2niHrx3-2ngTyJA-2ncPWsE-2n2S9ub-2neVrUR-2ni1vJR-2nD2tvm-2ny29WC-2n6dp3a-2n2BjFC-2mwGbPL-2n1YXiv-2n2V52R-2njkPoX-2nzAXey-2nokz12-2nyxcLg-2nuwSsR-2ne6zkE-9szczW-2nr8WXb-2nCQAVx-2nvgZwk-9szctq-2nAnokM-2nEBL7W-2neiwtC-2njDRxQ-2nkDLmE-2nhxD2D-2n3byQK-2niqKE2-9swd7D-2ngyyWJ-2neyjvj-2mfce3M-2nifk9K-2kpCv29-2n1ogog-2nwSjYV-2ngepTM-2n62ajL-2mZ5MHA-2n1RmZq-2nwxwGN-2kBk6zS-2n1FHib-2mcPxT1-2nrEbok