Keeping borders square when trimming photos

[Ben Calwell]

For those of you who dry mount, how do you keep the edges square when trimming the borders and dry mount tissue? I use a carpenter’s square and utility knife, but I often screw it up, ending up with a photo whose edges are not square to each other. Do I need to buy a dedicated paper trimmer?

[Pieter]

First of all, I assume your print is square to the paper and the image edges are perpendicular and parallel. If the carpenter's sure isn't working for you (possibly moving while being used), a paper trimmer--I prefer a rotary one like the Rotatrim) will give good results as long as you carefully align the paper with the top edge. It can be a little difficult to see where the trimmer blade will be cutting, but with a little practice it works very well. I also use a stainless steel ruler and xacto knife with good results. Some SS rulers have a cork backing to prevent slipping.

[Drew Wiley]

I use a dual-rail classic Rototrim mounted onto a big laminated table with its own long stainless steel squaring bar. I also have a smaller Rototrim. Doing it with a box knife and carpenter's square would seem awfully dicey. It's hard to even find a suitable carpenter's square. Those are actually stamped out, not machined, so running a knife blade along one doesn't mean it's running straight. If you can find a high quality draftman's stainless square, that would be a lot better, but nowhere near as good as an actual linear cutter like a Rototrim. Good guillotine-style cutters like Dahle makes are themselves rather expensive; but I wouldn't trust the cheap kinds sold in strip mall office outlets.

[Conrad . Marvin]

Make sure your print is flat before trimming. Put it in the press for 30 seconds or so, take it out and put it back in for another 30 seconds. This will make sure that the print is flat and doesn’t have moisture. Do the same to the mounting board. Use a roto trim or other good sharp trimmer.

[Tin Can]

never mind

I do it differently

let Drew lead

[Bernice Loui]

For prints with easel borders, back when lots of dry mounting was done.


Tack on a sheet of mounting tissue that is identical or slightly larger than the print size with the taking iron, center of the print.
Line up the easel border on the straight edge of the rotary cutter then roll trim off the edge.
The industrial sized rotary trimmer has a straight rule guide that is precise/accurate 90 degrees to the rolling cutting edge, this produces precise/accurate and nice cut edges on the print to be mounted. A GOOD roller trimmer is a worthy print mounting tool in many ways.

Alternate to a good rotary trimmer would be the Kutrimmer.
https://www.talasonline.com/Kutrimmer-Paper-Cutter

These easily cuts 4 ply cotton acid free board and does a good job trimming prints with mounting tissue tacked together before positioning the print to be pressed.

The straight edge cut with a razor knife works, it can be error prone and produces less then ideal trimmed edges if not properly and carefully done. Applying a metal straight edge or square directly on the print is not so good as it can easily damage the print. Cover the steel rule or square with stick on thin felt or even blue masking tape helps to prevent print damage.

BTW (if ok with LFF admin), My binding has 16x20 dry mount tissue on sale:
https://www.mybinding.com/trimount-16-x-20-dry-mounting-tissue-100-sheets.html


Bernice

[brucetaylor]

I always had a lot of success with a guillotine paper cutter for many years. It was a good quality one my dad brought home from the office when I was in high school. Trim the print and dry mount tissue together as Bernice points out. An expensive Rototrim would be nice of these days, but Mr. Can had a cheapie recommendation that I bought that works pretty well. I did a lot of dry mounting when I was a teenager in photo classes. Mom’s iron was my dry mount press. I still have the mounted prints, they look fine 50 years later.

[Vaughn]

Straight edge with a razor blade or exacto knife. Prints up to 16x20. Trim tissue and print to the image area, and dry-mounted inside the window with about 1/2 inch between window and print. I'd eyeball it, make sure print was square inside the window...trimming off a 1/32" (or whatever needed amount) down to 0" to even it with the window if needed. Something (easel or the mat board or my measuring) might have been slightly off square. Then tack it down and into the press.

A framed example...

[Jim Jones]

All of my printing is digital. The paper extends well beyond the mat window. I center the image in the window and tack the paper to the top edge of the overmat for maybe two inches (to reduce the possibility of buckling). The print is still available for traditional mounting if desired. This system has worked without problems for years. Epson 13 mil paper might not lay quite as flat as dry mounted paper, but most of my photos don't deserve the best anyhow.

[Roger Thoms]

I invested in a Rototrim many years ago and have never looked back.

Roger

[Bernice Loui]

Razor sharp "utility" knife blade, Xacto knife or similar cutting blades are shipped in their container with oil to prevent rust. Clean off the oil with alcohol, acetone or similar solvent before applying the blade to any photo print materials. The oil will soak in causing a print problem with the passage of time.

Keeping cutting edges clean IS important.

Bernice

[Ben Calwell]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I’ll have to spring for a decent trimmer, if I can find one that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. My wife will be thrilled when the UPS man arrives with yet another box from B&H.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I only use s.e. razor blades to trim things down in my sizing and squaring function on my linear matcutter (cutting mat windows themselves requires a somewhat different kind of cutting blade). But no matter what the application, it makes a significant difference whether you're using high-quality US made blades, or the cheap hardware and paint store variety. Sure, they cost a lot more per blade; but due to the fact they last much longer before dulling, and are stiffer, they end up being not only more reliable, but actually cheaper to use. I get em from a local large art store, but you can find them online too.

But for prints and drymount tissue, naah - real print trimmers are way better at that. Both my Rototrims have been in use about forty years now, and are still dependable. But they're the classic dual rail type, not the cheaper single-rail version.

[Bernice Loui]

Remember those single rail with rack gear Nikkor roto trimmers?


Bernice



. But they're the classic dual rail type, not the cheaper single-rail version.

[David Lindquist]

Remember those single rail with rack gear Nikkor roto trimmers?


Bernice

Yep I have one, a 20 x 20. And of course it's spelled "Nikor", no connection with the Japanese company. Don't know the origin of the name. My trimmer is labeled "Honeywell-Nikor Safety Trimmer" and "West Springfield, Mass."

Hoping the cutter head out lasts me...

David

[Michael R]

It’s RotAtrim.

I’d like to have my own mat cutter one day. I’ve looked into it several times over the years but never pulled the trigger - probably because as I tend to do, I ended up down the rat hole and onto something unnecessarily high end that I couldn’t justify financially. In my case it was Keencut I wanted. Didn’t happen. What do you use for mat cutting?


Well, I only use s.e. razor blades to trim things down in my sizing and squaring function on my linear matcutter (cutting mat windows themselves requires a somewhat different kind of cutting blade). But no matter what the application, it makes a significant difference whether you're using high-quality US made blades, or the cheap hardware and paint store variety. Sure, they cost a lot more per blade; but due to the fact they last much longer before dulling, and are stiffer, they end up being not only more reliable, but actually cheaper to use. I get em from a local large art store, but you can find them online too.

But for prints and drymount tissue, naah - real print trimmers are way better at that. Both my Rototrims have been in use about forty years now, and are still dependable. But they're the classic dual rail type, not the cheaper single-rail version.

[Eric Woodbury]

Rotatrim here too. Nice cutter. Had it 40 years. It came out of square right out of the box and not that sharp either. Sent to factory for a tune up. They sharpened but did nothing about square. I've since mounted a second bar at the top that is square.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I've coveted another Esterly Speed Mat cutter for a long time, and never gotten around to spending the money. I had an early version, but the current ones are way better and seem to start around $3500, that is, for the all-manual variety, which still saves a lot of time any fuss. My linear matcutter original cost around a thousand, and with a bit of periodic maintenance, is still quite functional after 40 yrs. But if I ever need to cut a large quantity of window mats over a brief period again, that's going to be hell on my fingers; always has been.

Where my larger Rotatrim is worth its weight in gold is like yesterday morning, when I needed to cut down some of my 30-inch roll of Fujiflex into 24X30 inch sizes in total darkness.
That's a convenient compromise size for me. I'll have to take another ambition pill before cutting down to 30X40 inch size again. More likely to do that later as the roll gets progressively lighter. That polyester base medium is a lot heavier than ordinary RC color paper. I didn't check what the full roll weighed, but it was at least noticeably less than the 40 inch wide roll I bought last time, which was really a test of my sensitive finger joints.

[Vaughn]

Back in the late 70s and early 80s I was using a Dexter Mat Cutter for cutting matboard down to size and for windows. I had signs up around the Art Department at the university, "Will cut window-mats for beer." I could not afford beer (worth drinking) back then. I did have my standards -- a large job might cost a 4-pack of Guinness.

I soon moved up to a hand-held Logan with a adjustable little arm that held a lead for measuring and marking the borders for the window. Loved it. It could use regular safety razor blades, too. I wore it out, but still use it for marking mats, but use a newer one (now must use Logan blades) for windows on 4-ply and 8-ply. I run them along a handheld straight edge. Low tech, but it is what I am use to. Builds up the arms. I find cutting the actual windows in 8-ply easier than cutting 8-ply down to size.

[Jim Andrada]

+1 on Rotatrim here. Great trimmer. I've used it a lot of years.

[Ben Calwell]

Has anyone used Dahle brand trimmers? They’re more in line with what I can afford. The Rotatrims are a bit pricey for me, although I’m sure they’re worth it.

[tgtaylor]

I use an M24 Rotatrim but a problem arises when trimming alternative prints: An 8x10 negative (which is slightly smaller than 8x10) sometimes gets slightly skewed when mounting in the contact printing frame which is designed for 9x11 paper and the grid lines on the cutter rarely, if ever, line-up. Perhaps I could use a sheet of graph to help.

Thomas

[Bernice Loui]

low cost Dahle guillotine trimmer?

They tend to pull the paper as they cut causing a curvature on the cut edge.. followed by absolute frustration...

IMO, a good rotary trimmer is a very worthy investment and frustration reducer.. what are your prints and time (not replaceable) worth?


Bernice


Has anyone used Dahle brand trimmers? They’re more in line with what I can afford. The Rotatrims are a bit pricey for me, although I’m sure they’re worth it.

[Ben Calwell]

low cost Dahle guillotine trimmer?

They tend to pull the paper as they cut causing a curvature on the cut edge.. followed by absolute frustration...

IMO, a good rotary trimmer is a very worthy investment and frustration reducer.. what are your prints and time (not replaceable) worth?


Bernice


Dahle makes a rotary trimmer that’s priced significantly lower than the Rotatrim models, but, you probably get what you pay for. But I’m thinking it might produce better results than my carpenter’s square and utility knife.

[Bernice Loui]

Zero experience with these.. Try before buy/own. Possible these are a better value than Rot-A-trim as they have been selling/on the market for a very long time with a positive reputation.

Curious to know how this works out.


Bernice


Dahle makes a rotary trimmer that’s priced significantly lower than the Rotatrim models, but, you probably get what you pay for. But I’m thinking it might produce better results than my carpenter’s square and utility knife.

[Bill Poole]

I've been using the Dahle 507 "Personal" rotary trimmer to trim prints up to 8x10 for many years. The cutting edge seems to line up square with the guides according to my admittedly inexpensive artists square. "Personal" not professional, but for me worth the +/- $50 on the big marketing site. Hope this helps.

[Drew Wiley]

Dahle makes very high quality guillotine cutters capable of very clean cuts as well as inferior low cost ones. The good ones are every bit as expensive as a pro level Rototrim of comparable size. You get what you pay for. Any kind of guillotine cutter can be risky if misused. Cheaper or dull ones are more prone to tug the work out of square, but that can happen with rotary and knife-style cutters too. The simple grid pattern on the board along with hand pressure is not adequate for serious squaring accuracy. You need an extended base and solid squaring arm, plus a flat platen that will hold the paper or tissue not only down, but overall flat and un-wavy when cutting. These kind of accessories don't come cheap pre-made, but can easily be made by an individual at very reasonable cost.

I can remove even a half millimeter from a forty-inch wide print cleanly, accurately, and squarely time after time if it were necessary. There is a technique to this, regardless of whether the print is big or small. You always want to start with a reference edge. Trim the most important edge first, then square each edge connected to it using the 90 degree guide bar on the trimmer (pre-checked for square with a serious square or draftsman's triangle). This will involve flipping the print over for one of those cuts. Then finally, if both your side cuts are indeed square, only then trim the opposite side to the first cut with reference to the others. A platen or large draftsman's triangle should be used to hold the print flat every step.

[esearing]

My Dahle 18inch guillotine trimmer has an extra contraption that holds down the paper and keeps my fingers out of the way. Its grid markings are square and it has a metal body. After making the first cut, I don't use the top rail stop, but instead align the first cut edge to the grid.

[Tin Can]

As posted before https://www.dahle.com//trimmers/guillotines

The expensive ones are for multi sheets, read the catalog

I use their cheapest 12" and 18" guillotine and only for cutting film, fantastic, no scratches,

I have a 24" double rail RotaTrim that is not as good

[Drew Wiley]

Expensive ones are also sometimes used for single sheets of even shim stock. There is a selection. Smaller "Pro" Dahle cutters are indeed superior to rotary cutters for sizing down film. But doing so in the dark, you might need an accessory clipboard for recording your inventory of leftover fingers each time. I improvised a very serious additional finger stop to mine. Reminds me of working with router tables : first finger-proof the device, and even then, never use em if you're already tired and groggy, and not fully alert.

[Tin Can]

Dahle has very good automatic finger saver

the same saver is very soft on film

I always count my fingers after work

so far so good


Expensive ones are also sometimes used for single sheets of even shim stock. There is a selection. Smaller "Pro" Dahle cutters are indeed superior to rotary cutters for sizing down film. But doing so in the dark, you might need an accessory clipboard for recording your inventory of leftover fingers each time. I improvised a very serious additional finger stop to mine. Reminds me of working with router tables : first finger-proof the device, and even then, never use em if you're already tired and groggy, and not fully alert.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, you and I are both old veterans, and have seen accidents. Once I retired, the shop crew breathed a sigh of relief, because I was one of those giving them hell if I detected any safety lapse. And sure enough, the month later a new hire cut three of his fingers off, and they couldn't be reattached because they'd gotten sucked up into an industrial extraction system and giant mountain of sawdust. They dug through all that, but without success.

[Tin Can]

I was on Fire/Medical not Hazmat as I refused, barrels unmarked...

Lots of blood, many injure themselves for time off and a payoff

Some coworkers freeze up

[Michael R]

Well, you and I are both old veterans, and have seen accidents. Once I retired, the shop crew breathed a sigh of relief, because I was one of those giving them hell if I detected any safety lapse. And sure enough, the month later a new hire cut three of his fingers off, and they couldn't be reattached because they'd gotten sucked up into an industrial extraction system and giant mountain of sawdust. They dug through all that, but without success.

I have a Rotatrim for print trimming and itÂ’s fine, but back when I attended workshops with heavy hitters like John Sexton etc. they were using guillotine cutters.

[Drew Wiley]

What makes you think "heavy hitters" potentially trim things better? Some of the worst mat windows I've ever seen were in a major AA retrospective (not his doing; but you'd think the museum crew or framing service they enlisted would have done things top notch). There's a big 20X24 "Moonrise right in front of you, maybe worth 600K today, with amateurish skewed window corners that would get any real frame shop assistant quickly fired.

EW is said to have trimmed his prints with a pair of scissors. Probably couldn't afford anything better. He was also described as showing his new prints to small gatherings in his home under a bare lightbulb. True or not, it doesn't surprise me. Some of his contact prints I've seen sure didn't look properly squared.

[Michael R]

The people I’m referring to are meticulous about everything including their print finishing. Everything is done in-house and is as good as it gets. I’m simply pointing out superb work can be done with guillotine cutters, which I think you already alluded to.


What makes you think "heavy hitters" potentially trim things better? Some of the worst mat windows I've ever seen were in a major AA retrospective (not his doing; but you'd think the museum crew or framing service they enlisted would have done things top notch). There's a big 20X24 "Moonrise right in front of you, maybe worth 600K today, with amateurish skewed window corners that would get any real frame shop assistant quickly fired.

EW is said to have trimmed his prints with a pair of scissors. Probably couldn't afford anything better. He was also described as showing his new prints to small gatherings in his home under a bare lightbulb. True or not, it doesn't surprise me. Some of his contact prints I've seen sure didn't look properly squared.

[Drew Wiley]

"Meticulous" is not patented, Michael. Some of us call that routine, standard practice. But yes, I do agree that high-quality cutters like Dahle are every bit as good as high-quality linear ones like Rotatrim, though I don't think I'd want to be using a guillotine trimmer for big rolls of paper in the dark!

[Pieter]

What makes you think "heavy hitters" potentially trim things better? Some of the worst mat windows I've ever seen were in a major AA retrospective (not his doing; but you'd think the museum crew or framing service they enlisted would have done things top notch). There's a big 20X24 "Moonrise right in front of you, maybe worth 600K today, with amateurish skewed window corners that would get any real frame shop assistant quickly fired.

EW is said to have trimmed his prints with a pair of scissors. Probably couldn't afford anything better. He was also described as showing his new prints to small gatherings in his home under a bare lightbulb. True or not, it doesn't surprise me. Some of his contact prints I've seen sure didn't look properly squared.

The best-looking EW prints I have seen were those printed by Brett.

[Drew Wiley]

I had the impression Cole was tasked with most of the later printing. I can see why Brett wouldn't be terribly happy doing it because he had such an individualistic style of his own. And as for Cole, he had a bent toward color photography, and was actually one of the better Cibachrome printers in that area. I believe someone else was contracted to do his dye transfer prints and some big chromogenics. But Merg Ross would know the facts. I actually gravitate more towards EW early work rather than his later style, though even that had quite a bit of influence on me. It's really Brett, however, that stood almost in a league of his own as a printmaker. I could pick out even a small print of his clear across a big gallery room from all the others. Just something about them. His mats were professionally cut, with often a tiny secondary cutout window mat in the lower margin of the overmat for his signature. That's fairly easy to do today using expensive computer controlled mat cutting machines, but was quite a skill when only manual linear ones were available.

I got pretty good at double windows with 2-ply museum board, but avoided it on 4-ply. Just basic precise window cutting is fussy enough, especially if one has to do a large quantity in a day. Big window cutouts were re-squared and sized for use with smaller prints. I've got quite a backlog of drymounting to do this fall, but don't over-mat (window mat) any of them unless they're going to be imminently framed.

[Tin Can]

I just buy precut matt openings, a stack of 8X10 from old stock Light Impressions still sealed

and as I NOW often use RC, no mounting, no glass

I am simple Tinker

[Michael R]

Agree with you there. Sounds like a recipe for lost fingers.


"Meticulous" is not patented, Michael. Some of us call that routine, standard practice. But yes, I do agree that high-quality cutters like Dahle are every bit as good as high-quality linear ones like Rotatrim, though I don't think I'd want to be using a guillotine trimmer for big rolls of paper in the dark!