My New Tripod: Gitzo vs Leica Surveyor vs Ries [Archive]

r.e.

23-Aug-2022, 18:21

The purpose of this thread is to talk about options that I was considering for a new tripod and, when I've had a chance to test it this weekend, about the one that I chose. It might interest some readers down the road.

My tripod has to support a 35mm camera (Leica film and digital), a 6x7 camera (Mamiya 7II), a large format camera (Arca-Swiss F-line, configurable for 4x5 and 8x10) and a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera. As large format cameras go, the Arca-Swiss is not very heavy, even when configured for 8x10.

I currently have a Gitzo tripod (carbon fibre, Systematic Series 3) in New York, and a Ries tripod (wood) in another country. Due to the pandemic and other reasons, the Ries, a J100 (https://www.riestripod.com/product/the-j100-tripod/), is out of the picture for the moment. The Gitzo, a G1325 MK II, is no longer made, but there's a successor, the GT3533LS (https://www.gitzo.com/global/tripod-systematic-series-3-long-3-sections-gt3533ls/). I also have two ground tripods, but they were minor considerations when it came to choosing an additional standard tripod.

The Gitzo is a very good tripod, but for some time I've been interested in getting one that has more mass. I think that this is the result of using the Gitzo with the Blackmagic camera, a Miller fluid head, a ciné zoom lens and a monitor. The Miller, a CX6 (https://www.millertripods.com/us/cx6-fluid-heads.html), weighs 2.3kg (5lbs) alone. The result is an overall rig that's fairly heavy. It feels very stable, very grounded, and I like that. I also cut weight in other places. I'm not interested in backpacking. When it comes to still photography, I rarely have more than one lens with me. I don't think that I've ever brought along more than three film holders. These days, I know what I'm going to shoot, and how, before I walk out the door. That's partly the result of shooting video, for which pre-planning is basic to getting a video actually made, and partly due to scouting and planning with Artist's Viewfinder (https://www.artistsviewfinder.com) and PhotoPills (https://www.photopills.com). Consequently, I think that extra tripod weight gets counterbalanced by being otherwise minimalist.

I narrowed my options to three:

Gitzo GT5533LS, Systematic Series 5 (https://www.gitzo.com/global/tripod-systematic-series-5-long-3-sections-gt5533ls/)

230341

Price: US$1200

Material: carbon fibre
Crown: 10cm (4”)
Maximum height: 145cm (57”)
Minimum height: 10cm (4”)
Folded length: 68cm (27”)
Weight: 2.7kg (6lb)

Leica Geosystems GST20 (https://leica-geosystems.com/en-us/products/levels/accessories/tripods)

230340

Price: $470 with tools

Material: wood
Crown: requires custom work
Maximum height: 180cm (6’)
Folded length: 107cm (3.5’)
Weight: 6.4kg (14lb)

Ries J100-2 (https://www.riestripod.com/product/the-j100-2-tripod/)

230342

Price: $718, more with options

Material: wood
Crown: 10cm (4”)
Maximum height: 152cm (62”)
Minimum height: 30.5cm (12”)
Folded length: 102cm (40”)
Weight (with bronze knobs): 5kg (11lb)

I'll post more this weekend after trying out the new tripod. Curious to know whether anyone else has views on these options.

Two23

23-Aug-2022, 19:39

I have the Gitzo 1325, Ries J100-2, and a Feisol travel tripod 3441T. Since I shoot everything from 35mm to 8x10 wet plate and like a wide variety of genres I have a selection of tripods. Nothing beats the Ries for shooting wet plate with heavy brass lenses, and it's my first choice when wind is a factor here on the Northern Plains. However if I had to choose one tripod it would be the Gitzo 1325 for its versatility.

Kent in SD

Drew Wiley

23-Aug-2022, 20:13

First of all, that Leica Geosystems tripod is simply a decent rebranded US product ridiculously marked up. There's a parallel thread on this forum where someone recently paid around $100 for the same thing. I don't know why it takes another $370 just to put a particular brand name on one. Perhaps the name of a German company is harder to spell. But back when I distributed those, they put our company name on them at no extra cost for a certain order quantity. It's solid and dependable, but bulky to tote around, and would obviously need a turnbolt changeout from 5/8-11 to 3/8-16.

The Ries option you show is an excellent product, but somewhat light in my opinion for 8x10 usage. I own both that model and a heavier Ries, so know the functional distinction quite well. But you could try it with your own 8x10 to see if it's adequate, if they still offer a return privilege if it doesn't work out.

I don't like the feet on that Gitzo. But maybe they offer a spike foot option, which is a lot better in the field. I do sometimes use a modified Feisol CF tripod around that weight for even my 8x10 camera. But if you can manage extra carry weight, there's simply no substitute for the kind of sheer bully mass that comes with a big wooden tripod instead, especially in a breeze or on spongey ground. It's amazing how easily the bellows of an 8x10 can turn the whole setup into a kite on a March day up on some ridge. The more mass below, the better.

Leszek Vogt

23-Aug-2022, 20:25

Although I have a nice Feisol CF, I'd go (today) with a ProMediaGear, since it's stout and offers 75mm video bowl. If I was to shoot LF only , I'd more than likely choose Ries. But, that's just moi.

r.e.

23-Aug-2022, 20:46

Although I have a nice Feisol CF, I'd go (today) with a ProMediaGear, since it's stout and offers 75mm video bowl. If I was to shoot LF only , I'd more than likely choose Ries. But, that's just moi.

Thanks for mentioning your video bowl. The 75mm bowl that I use with the Miller Fluid Head (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1381991-REG/miller_1092_cx6_fluid_head.html) and with a Gitzo Levelling Base (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1286949-REG/gitzo_gslvls_leveling_base_for.html) was one of the important considerations in making this decision.

esearing

24-Aug-2022, 04:27

There are a dozen Tripod threads below this one with many great options stating pros/cons and prices. Function is more important than a brand name.

Tin Can

24-Aug-2022, 05:09

Tripods evolve like everything

a couple years ago bought biggest FLM, German design, China well built

I wanted a 100mm bowl and a tripod tall enough for a Gimbal head for birding

I also like Ari, he gave a discount for preorder, a few years ago.

Thank you Ari!

Now BIGGER https://flmusa.com/product/flm-atlas-42-l4-carbon-fiber-tripod/

But I have one...

btw, Ari did use input from LFPF, before production

r.e.

24-Aug-2022, 06:02

There are a dozen Tripod threads below this one with many great options stating pros/cons and prices. Function is more important than a brand name.

Please note the purpose of this thread, which is stated in the first sentence: "The purpose of this thread is to talk about options that I was considering for a new tripod and, when I've had a chance to test it this weekend, about the one that I chose."

This is a review. As is common practice for reviews, the first post sets out requirements and the options considered. As I discovered while making this decision, information on this forum about the options that I considered, including the option that I chose, is thin to non-existent. That's why I'm writing this. I'm also considering making a YouTube video because there is not a single video on the whole of YouTube about any of the options.

I'm unaware of any way to write something like this without referring to makes and models. Indeed, my view is that the more detailed I can be about components, the better. There are photos and links to make it easy for readers to see exactly what I'm talking about. Contrary to your impression, specific information on price in discussions about tripods on this forum is in fact uncommon. I've included prices because I think that cost is important, at least it is for me.

Fred L

24-Aug-2022, 06:29

Have Gitzo (CF and aluminum), Ries (A and J), Manfrotto and Benro.

I would go with the Ries because of the one feature that very few others have - leg spread. I can't emphasize enough the utility of being able to place the legs where needed, esp on difficult ground. The weight is also a plus (or minus depending on how far one is going). If the Gitzo is the aluminum one, that would be second.

Peter De Smidt

24-Aug-2022, 07:00

r.e.

24-Aug-2022, 07:09

If the Gitzo is the aluminum one, that would be second.

Hi Fred,

As part of this decision, I checked what Gitzo makes in aluminium. I was unable to find anything. I don't think that Gitzo makes aluminium tripods anymore. Certainly, its Systematic Tripods are all carbon fibre.

By the by, I was only interested in the Systematic line due to the accessories available for it and because several other companies use the Systematic specifications. I can use my Gitzo Systematic accessories with my Systematic-compliant Really Right Stuff ground tripod (current version of RRS's ground tripod) (https://www.reallyrightstuff.com/versa-ground-pod). Also, accessories made by other companies that use the system can be less expensive. A Benro half ball is cheaper than a Gitzo half ball.

r.e.

24-Aug-2022, 08:22

I've been a Gitzo fan for decades. I have many of them. Nonetheless, if I were to buy a new tripod, I doubt I would get one. Companies like Leofoto make equally or higher quality, more innovative, and better value tripods, with more easily available accessories. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bqg4J3MEoE&t=724s

Hi Peter,

Your post raises an interesting difference in personal requirements and preferences.

Note that the Gitzo option in post #1 is a Series 5 tripod. It has only three sections, its top leg section has a diameter of 41.3mm (1.6") and it has a 10cm (4") crown that will take a 100mm bowl. As far as I can tell, Leofoto doesn't make a comparable tripod. The closest it comes is a tripod that in the Gitzo lineup would be a Series 3 tripod, which is what my Gitzo G1325 is. If you want a three section Series 3 tripod, Leofoto's version is indeed cheaper.

When it comes to carbon fibre tripods, I want fairly robust leg diameter and stability, which is what you get with fewer leg sections. Leofoto appears to place a lot of emphasis on minimising folded length, which means more leg sections, and reducing weight. I'm not terribly concerned about folded length, provided that the tripod will fit into my checked baggage (I don't care whether the tripod folds to 68cm/27" or 53cm/21"), and I'm not focused on grams/ounces when it comes to weight.

Three Legged Thing (http://3leggedthing.com), and perhaps other companies, make versions of the kind of Leofoto levelling device shown in your time stamp of Hudson Henry's video. It's less expensive than a levelling base on a half ball, and no doubt some people find it more convenient.

24-Aug-2022, 09:17

CreationBear

24-Aug-2022, 09:51

I keep wanting somebody to get the Franz Bagyi Berlebach:
https://www.berlebach.de/en/?bereich=details&id=248
if only because I'm a slut for Flecktarn.:) Probably not an all-around option at 40" max height, but it would be fun to do a proof-of-concept.

Otherwise, I think everyone's on the right track regarding the high mass/low resonance of wooden tripods--I like, too, how the mass is distributed in a wooden tripod...carbon fiber sticks, however structurally sound "statically," always seem too top-heavy to trust while working around them in the field.

rfesk

24-Aug-2022, 09:59

The aluminum 3 series Gitzo tripods are remarkably stable when used only with a plate or bowl level. Just have to get one that is tall enough without a center column.

r.e.

24-Aug-2022, 11:23

For me it comes down the where I'm shooting. I often shoot along the ocean / beach / shore. (sand, mud, salt)

The tube legs and feet with screw-twist locking are very precisely made and don't do so well with salt and sand in them based on my experience with the tiltalls which I otherwise love for 4x5 and smaller.

The wooden style tripods like the Ries or surveying tripod are much more immune to problems in my environment. I have J and A series Ries and a couple surveying tripods. I do think Ries is good if you can afford it. I have had the leg angle lock bolts unscrew themselves and lost one but the tripod works fine without that.

How did you go about rigging the tops of your surveyor tripods for cameras?

Really Right Stuff makes two ground tripods that I have, one aluminium and one carbon fibre. The aluminium tripod is popular with nature and wildlife photographers for precisely the reason that you state; it's perfect if you're around muck, sand and salt. RRS discontinued the aluminium version in 2020 and revived it a few months ago. For some reason, it isn't on RRS's website, but retailers like B&H are selling it.

It's a really nice tripod, but the revival came with an unconscionable 33% price hike, from US$400 to $600. There's a link to the carbon fibre version, which now actually costs less, in post #11.

Really Right Stuff Ground-Level Aluminum Tripod (TFA-32G) (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1549176-REG/really_right_stuff_tfa_32g_fixed_apex_3_series.html)

230354

230355

Bernice Loui

24-Aug-2022, 11:37

The personal opinion on tripods...

Tripod choice depends on camera to be used.

For the 5x7 Sinar Norma or Sinar P/C if used outside.. The modified Surveyor tripod (Dutch Hill, no center column) remains first choice. It is stable, excellent vibration control, extremely rugged_durable_abuse tolerant_reliable_environment tolerant. Prior to the Dutch Hill it was a larger Gitzo with the wings on the twist locks. Used it for decades and very well used today from all it's travels. The twist locks have gotten stuck with sand, dirt and ... forcing a take-apart and cleaning. If the twist locks are stuck in water, this creates an entirely different set of problems for telescopic legs. None of these innate problems with telescopic legs happen with the Dutch Hill or similar open design twin shank tripods. IMO, modified surveyor tripods are an excellent value with excellent tripod performance.

For the Linhof Technikardan 23S, The newest addition Berlebach 833 with integral ball head, no center column is top choice. Wood being very stable with GOOD vibration control. Add to this the integral ball head allows easier leveling of the tripod independent of the leg's position allowing ease of a stable platform to fine tuning the camera position using a pan/tilt/nod tripod head. The Berlebach has proven to be very nice to use and durable so far. Prior to the wood Berlebach used carbon fiber and aluminum leg tripods which proved to be lesser for tripod performance.

For the Canon digital or 35mm film with smaller lenses, the Carbon fiber Innorel NT85 (also sold as many re-branded CF tripods today, made in china) or decades old Bogen 3021, 3005 (both have had their center column removed-replaced with a solid 3/8" stud for the tripod head). Yes, the CF tripod is light weigh stable enough and all that. Yet the twist lock four section legs remain a hassle to used. The telescopic legs retain all the same problems telescopic legs have with sand-dirt-water intrusion and remain prone to getting stuck. IMO, the only advantage of CF is low weight, it trades off stability for low weight. Notable, the CF Innorel is not much lower in weight than the Bogen 3005.. just over one pound. The Innorel NT85 has 32mm diameter legs at their largest tapering down to 22mm diameter.. It's stability and vibration control is not much better than the Bogen 3005. The weight capacity rating of 50 pounds is extremely questionable.. and IMO, weight ratings are meaningless in too many ways.. Innorel offers a 40mm tube version, 88 pound rating, takes a 75mm bowl direct and interchangeable "heads" popular with the telescope folks and also marketed under various other brand names. After a venture with CF tripods, decided the only real advantage they have over aluminum is about 30% less weight for a given tripod size. CF does have slightly improved vibration control over aluminum but not as good as a proper wood tripod or wood composite tripod.

Majority of the tripod market today is focused to hand held digital camera users that highly value lowest weight, smallest size, portability. Their tripod needs are not the same as view camera users. Another source of tripod difficulty comes with folks venturing into this view camera stuff carrying over their hand held digital or film camera ways-habits.. Their previous small, lightweight, easily portable tripod with a ball head and center column that has served well for their hand held camera often becomes a source of grief when used with a view camera..

Honorable mention is the prior to Tiffen ownership Davis & Sanford rectangular aluminum leg tripod with integral adjustable leg spreader. These are remarkably rugged, durable and stable with modest weight for an aluminum tripod.. Used one for decades.

Notable for indoor "studio" camera support, a really GOOD studio stand flat works better in every way over any tripod.

Bernice

24-Aug-2022, 11:43

How did you go about rigging the tops of your surveyor tripods for cameras?

Really Right Stuff makes two ground tripods that I have, one aluminium and one carbon fibre. The aluminium tripod is popular with nature and wildlife photographers for precisely the kind of reason that you state. RRS discontinued the aluminium version in 2020 and revived it a few months ago. For some reason, it isn't on RRS's website, but retailers like B&H are selling it.

It's a really nice tripod, but the revival came with an unconscionable 33% price hike, from US$400 to $600 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1549176-REG/really_right_stuff_tfa_32g_fixed_apex_3_series.html). There's a link to the carbon fibre version, which now actually costs less, in post #11.

Really Right Stuff Ground-Level Aluminum Tripod (TFA-32G)

230354

230355

Those are interesting! Shame it's only 17 inches high.

I use a round 1/4-20 to 5/8 adaptor. Then a 3/8 to 1/4 insert if the head needs 3/8. I use a bogen/manfrotto 3025 head which is now called the 056 head.

Bernice Loui

24-Aug-2022, 11:46

Berlebach makes a wood "mini" tripod.

https://www.berlebach.de/en/?bereich=details&id=98

Bernice

Those are interesting!
I use a round 1/4-20 to 5/8 adaptor. Then a 3/8 to 1/4 insert if the head needs 3/8. I use a bogen/manfrotto 3025 head which is now called the 056 head.

Tin Can

24-Aug-2022, 11:57

They also make a lamp

https://www.berlebach.de/en/?bereich=produkte&kategorie=83&ansicht=liste

r.e.

24-Aug-2022, 12:16

Those are interesting! Shame it's only 17 inches high.

When needed, you can always use a riser...

This is RRS's carbon fibre ground tripod with a Blackmagic camera and Miller fluid head, but the principle's the same. This tripod has a lower maximum height than the aluminium one.

The riser is the black open tube on the right. This one happens to be 150mm/6" tall.

230356

This is the tripod with riser in place.

230357

If you're interested in the RRS aluminium ground tripod...

It was sold for many years as TP-243. In 2020, RRS "upgraded" it to the current model, which is TFA-32G. The upgraded version has a reversible 3/8"/1/4" stud, and includes some mounting holes on the crown. It also shaves several ounces off the weight. That's about it. One might wonder whether the upgrade was in fact about saving money on aluminium. Within months, the tripod was discontinued completely. RRS said that it was too expensive to make. It was available from retailers for several months, but supply eventually stopped.

A few months ago, retailers like B&H suddenly had it in stock again. As mentioned above, it is not on the RRS site. The price has gone from $400 to $600.

If you want one, I'd suggest second hand, either version, off Fred Miranda, Craigslist, eBay, etc.

r.e.

24-Aug-2022, 16:04

UPS says that I'll have the new tripod tomorrow. I'll have time to evaluate it over the weekend and post about how it's working out. In post #1, I set out my preferences/requirements and the three tripods that I considered. The new tripod has to work with my existing tripod head options. What follows is what I have available in New York, starting with the most basic. There's an additional option that I can arrange for, but I want to see how these work out first:

No Tripod Head

This requires levelling from the legs. A Ries tripod and surveyor tripods are much easier to level than full length carbon fibre tripods.

Levelling Base (Gitzo GSLVLS) (https://www.gitzo.com/global/leveling-base-systematic-gslvls/)

This solution is tailor-made for a tripod, such as the Gitzo, that can receive a half ball. However, it's also possible to use a Riser (see post #21 just above) as an intermediary.

230359

Fluid Head (Miller CX6) (https://www.millertripods.com/en/catalog/product/view/id/413/category/2/)

The conventional way to use a fluid head, as with a levelling base, is mounted on a half ball. However, as noted, one can use a Riser with a Ries tripod or with a modified surveyor tripod. For an example, see the two photos in post #21 above.

For larger cameras, I'm also interested in another way. Many people, including me, break the Loctite seal that affixes the stud that enters the bottom of a fluid head (see second photo below). This makes it possible to remove the stud in order to mount the head on a flat surface. The half ball isn't needed if the surface is already levelled, which is the case (or should be) with a dolly/slider, and can be with a tripod that can be levelled without much difficulty.

Unlike photographing without a tripod head, or with a levelling base, a fluid head mounted on a flat surface has 360° panning and substantial vertical tilt built in; in the case of the Miller, 90°.

Properly balanced, a good fluid head also makes a camera, as a matter of handling, effectively weightless.

230360

230361

My Arca-Swiss 8x10, Miller Fluid Head and Current Gitzo Series 3 Tripod (G1325 MK II)

230362

Looking forward to seeing how the new tripod performs.

r.e.

25-Aug-2022, 07:17

For the Linhof Technikardan 23S, The newest addition Berlebach 833 with integral ball head, no center column is top choice. Wood being very stable with GOOD vibration control. Add to this the integral ball head allows easier leveling of the tripod independent of the leg's position allowing ease of a stable platform to fine tuning the camera position using a pan/tilt/nod tripod head. The Berlebach has proven to be very nice to use and durable so far. Prior to the wood Berlebach used carbon fiber and aluminum leg tripods which proved to be lesser for tripod performance.

That's a very competitively priced tripod, and I like the fact that levelling is built in: https://www.berlebach.de/en/?bereich=details&id=292

I've never seen a Berlebach tripod and had a look at the company's website. Interesting history. Berlebach was a GDR state-owned company until reunification, and re-invented itself from the ground up (near bankruptcy, etc.) during the 1990s/early 2000s. In Germany, it has a dealer network, but it has very little presence elsewhere. Outside Germany, it looks like it mostly sells direct from its website, shipping worldwide. It isn't unique in that regard; Really Right Stuff and Ries operate the same way, except that they have fewer domestic resellers. The one North American Berlebach reseller is an astronomy business in California, although Adorama offers some of its astronomy tripods via drop shipment.

There are quite a few YouTube videos about Berlebach tripods (more than for Ries), but as far as I can see all of the detailed videos are in German. There are a few brief photo show videos in English.

r.e.

25-Aug-2022, 09:11

A word about FLM and its tripods...

As some know, forum participant @Ari is FLM's North American distributor. I recently purchased an FLM quick release clamp from him that I'm quite happy with, and will use, in some cases, with the new tripod. I talk about the QR clamp in this post: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?169650-Portable-Solution-to-Make-Overhead-(90%B0)-Photographs&p=1652739&viewfull=1#post1652739

FLM's tripods have a good reputation, and participants on this forum who have one appear to be happy with theirs, but FLM didn't make my tripod short list for specification and price reasons.

I decided early on that, when it comes to carbon fibre, my option was a Gitzo Series 5 or similar. In that Series, I was interested in the model (see post #1) that has three leg segments, with a maximum height of 145cm (57”) and a folded length of 68cm (27"). These specs are almost identical to the specs for my current Series 3 tripod, which work well for me, including as checked baggage.

FLM's Atlas tripods are the closest to a Gitzo Series 5. However, to my surprise FLM doesn't make any 3-section tripods. It makes 4-section Atlas tripods, which is more sections than I want, and 2-section Atlas tripods. Of the latter, the closest to the Gitzo (FLM Atlas 42-L2 (https://www.flmcanada.com/product/flm-atlas-42-l2/)) has a maximum height of 166cm (65.5") and a folded length of 101cm (40"). When it comes to carbon fibre, I was just not interested in another 33cm (13") of folded length.*

The other issue was price, which may sound odd given the bashing that Gitzo gets for its prices. The Gitzo is US$1196. The FLM is $1256.

* FLM also makes a 2-section Atlas tripod that has a folded length that is 15cm (6") longer than the Gitzo's. However, for my needs the maximum height of that tripod is too short.

Bernice Loui

25-Aug-2022, 11:08

Functionally it simply does what is required/demanded from a tripod for a TK23s camera. At this point after a run with carbon fiber tripods, the only advantage of a CF is lower weight for a given sized tripod..

Yet, a lower weight tripod will be less stable in real world outdoor conditions due to the way nature IS. Will a "GOOD" 5 pound CF tripod support a 20 pound camera, very likely yes. Will that 5 pound CF tripod be stable with good vibration control and tolerate being used in harsh environments very possible not as stable due to the telescopic design legs and lower weight. This applies to any tripod with telescopic legs as they have an inherent problem with dirt/sand/ water and other environmental factors. Yes, there are marketing claims of sealed leg locks and such... design and environmental realities counter these claims.

Then we come to how tripods are treated and used.. How many foto folks are going to allow their well over one thousand U$D tripod set up to be rolled around in the back of motor vehicle, bounced around during transport and more year after year and expect/demand that tripod and head operate absolutely flawless and not cause any grief? Or why the idea of any tripod near four figures of U$D never works for me..

Here is the Berlebach 833 with Gitzo pan/tilt/nod head and TK23s. Has a modified Hasselblad quick release coupler with a plate specially made for the TK23s.
230382

The integral ball head allows easy leveling of the head platform with lesser concerns of how the legs are set up. This provides a level platform for the pan/tilt/nod head to fine tune the camera position as needed. Three section legs with cam lock positions allow setting up the tripod at very low heights (legs can go flat if needed) and varied leg angles and lengths.. Twin shank legs are abuse, sand, dirt, water and environmental factors tolerant in the same way as a surveyors tripod.. There are very real reasons why the majority of surveyor tripods are twin shank leg designs.. they tolerate difficulty duty far better than telescopic legs.

As for popularity of wood tripods for serious telescopes, that is one of the prime markets for Berlebach and other wood telescope tripods. These folks highly favor wood due to vibration control (real is a factor in telescope looking into the cosmos), stability and all those good things wood offers.

Bernice

That's a very competitively priced tripod, and I like the fact that levelling is built in: https://www.berlebach.de/en/?bereich=details&id=292

I've never seen a Berlebach tripod and had a look at the company's website. Interesting history. Berlebach was a GDR state-owned company until reunification, and re-invented itself from the ground up (near bankruptcy, etc.) during the 1990s/early 2000s. In Germany, it has a dealer network, but it has very little presence elsewhere. Outside Germany, it looks like it mostly sells direct from its website, shipping worldwide. It isn't unique in that regard; Really Right Stuff and Ries operate the same way, except that they have fewer domestic resellers. The one North American Berlebach reseller is an astronomy business in California, although Adorama offers some of its astronomy tripods via drop shipment.

There are quite a few YouTube videos about Berlebach tripods (more than for Ries), but as far as I can see all of the detailed videos are in German. There are a few brief photo show videos in English.

Bernice Loui

25-Aug-2022, 11:16

Compare the Gitzo & FLM to the Innorel RT90C at $337 U$D
https://www.amazon.com/Carbon-Tripod-Professional-Birdwatching-Adapter/dp/B07H8V8WWM?th=1

Their differences are likely not as much as some would want to believe..

As for four section telescopic legs, that alone is a BIG negative.. If the tripod is most often used at a height greater than 36", two section legs are FAR easier and faster to set up. What four section legs offer is compact size for ease of transport. This coupled with the low weight of CF makes a very attractive portable and easier transportable package.. Trading off ease of set up and other real world tripod needs.

Bernice

A word about FLM and its tripods...

As some know, forum participant @Ari is FLM's North American distributor. I recently purchased an FLM quick release clamp from him that I'm quite happy with, and will use, in some cases, with the new tripod. I talk about the QR clamp in this post: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?169650-Portable-Solution-to-Make-Overhead-(90%B0)-Photographs&p=1652739&viewfull=1#post1652739

FLM's tripods have a good reputation, and participants on this forum who have one appear to be happy with theirs, but FLM didn't make my tripod short list for specification and price reasons.

I decided early on that, when it comes to carbon fibre, my option was a Gitzo Series 5 or similar. In that series, I was interested in the model (see post #1) that has three leg segments, with a maximum height of 145cm (57”) and a folded length of 68cm (27"). These specs are almost identical to the specs for my current Series 3 tripod, which work well for me, including as checked baggage.

FLM's Atlas tripods are the closest to a Gitzo Series 5. However, to my surprise FLM doesn't make any 3-section tripods. It makes 4-section Atlas tripods, which is more sections than I want, and 2-section Atlas tripods. Of the latter, the closest to the Gitzo (FLM Atlas 42-L2 (https://www.flmcanada.com/product/flm-atlas-42-l2/)) has a maximum height of 166cm (65.5") and a folded length of 101cm (40"). When it comes to carbon fibre, I was just not interested in another 33cm (13") of folded length.*

The other issue was price, which may sound odd given the bashing that Gitzo gets for its prices. The Gitzo is US$1200. The FLM is $1256.

* FLM also makes a 2-section Atlas tripod that has a folded length that is 15cm (6") longer than the Gitzo's. However, for my needs the maximum height of that tripod is too short.

Bernice Loui

25-Aug-2022, 11:48

Modified Dutch Hill with Sinar Norma.

Those legs spiked into soil/grass stabilizes the tripod set up nicely. No center column, Sinar pan/tilt head, Sinar Norma monorail camera standards can be moved front/back relative to the tripod mount collar as needed to balance on the tripod enhancing overall stability. This is effectively the same as using a video/cinema fluid head with the weight balance properly set on the fluid head, but with improved weight distribution and balance as the actual weight of the set up is loaded at the tripod. This is one of the "hidden" features of a Sinar monorail camera over the majority of flat bed folders with a fixed tripod mounting location (The TK23s has this specific problem).
230386

The tripod head plate is from a Bolex cinema tripod. There is a leveling bowl and center column that can be used in place of the adapter stub.
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Sinar Norma with DB shutter and DBM mount 360mm APO ronar.
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Gave up on the foto to post "issue"..
Bernice

Drew Wiley

25-Aug-2022, 11:57

Bernice - there's been a trend toward thinner ply CF legs to save even more weight. I'm not referring to thinner diameter, which is an additional factor, but to the number of plys. My old early model CF Gitzo Reporter has 3-ply very strong legs and will outlive me; the current equivalent model has 2-ply, and I've actually seen em break on a fall. My large CF tripod is a 2-ply Feisol. It's plenty strong in terms of holding the weight of an 8x10 or big tele. But I'm conscious not to get it gouged or dented. I won't take the abuse my maple Ries tripod repeatedly has. I'm particularly sensitive to the issue since I'm the one who sold Ellison's workers much of the supplies and equipment for their CF yacht usage, including for the America's Cup race. Even though they were using custom kevlar-reinforced carbon fiber sections (not supplied by me), they were themselves deliberately reducing racing yacht weight by resorting to 2-ply masts and booms. And all it took was an accidental dent for one of those booms to snap and drown a sailor under the sail on a test run. I had spoken to that same person, in person, the day before. Now the rules have changed and mandate stronger heavier masts etc. They had shown me samples in advance of all the CF materials involved, including those used on Ellison's personal yacht hull - (the biggest in the world at the time, and still the biggest actually launched) - which were high-density compressed 12-ply, stronger than steel.

Bernice Loui

25-Aug-2022, 12:07

Aka notch sensitivity. CF can be made/spun/wound to greatly reduce this well known problem. This is also a very serious problem with CF bicycle frames. A small notch or stress fracture can cause a catastrophic failure. Like the current CF tripod fashion the trend is for thinner and lower weight.. no thanks.

This has become another reasons to move away from CF tripods, they are not going to tolerate the real world abuse from transport then "used" as well as a GOOD wood or non CF composite (mixed wood/fiberglass or similar) twin shank leg tripod. Adding to this, the current cost of a name brand CF tripod does not add up to being a good value for what they offer.

Bernice

Bernice - there's been a trend toward thinner ply CF legs to save even more weight. I'm not referring to thinner diameter, which is an additional factor, but to the number of plys. My old early model CF Gitzo Reporter has 3-ply very strong legs and will outlive me; the current equivalent model has 2-ply, and I've actually seen em break on a fall. My large CF tripod is a 2-ply Feisol. It's plenty strong in terms of holding the weight of an 8x10 or big tele. But I'm conscious not to get it gouged or dented. I won't take the abuse my maple Ries tripod repeatedly has. I'm particularly sensitive to the issue since I'm the one who sold Ellison's workers much of the supplies and equipment for their CF yacht usage, including for the America's Cup race. Even though they were using custom kevlar-reinforced carbon fiber sections (not supplied by me), they were themselves deliberately reducing racing yacht weight by resorting to 2-ply masts and booms. And all it took was an accidental dent for one of those booms to snap and drown a sailor under the sail on a test run. I had spoken to that same person, in person, the day before. Now the rules have changed and mandate stronger heavier masts etc. They had shown me samples in advance of all the CF materials involved, including those used on Ellison's personal yacht hull - (the biggest in the world at the time, and still the biggest actually launched) - which were high-density compressed 12-ply, stronger than steel.

Drew Wiley

25-Aug-2022, 12:16

Well, as an aging backpacker now approaching my mid-70's, cumulative weight is a significant issue, and I'm darn glad I invested in advance in things like CF tripods and lightweight folder field cameras. But for every other situation, it's back to a real wood Ries and a Norma monorail. Of course, I have MF options too, with their own pros and cons; but even there, I unquestionably prefer a Ries whenever realistic (an airline carry-on would be unrealistic).

Bernice Loui

25-Aug-2022, 12:22

Heh, if the possible image is more than a few hundred feet from the motor vehicle .. that would be a no.
Alternative, wheeled trail cart which has become a fashionable thing today for folks wanting to do no with a back pack.

The TK23s has a modified old tyme airport luggage rack to wheel the TK23s in case around with tripod as needed.

The 5x7 Norma has a Pelican case with wheels..

Highly favor pavement..

Walking distance access to many hiking trails here, yet no real interest in hiking in these trails in the community's "back yard"..

Bernice

[QUOTE=Drew Wiley;1654903
But for every other situation, it's back to a real wood Ries and a Norma monorail.

[/QUOTE]

r.e.

25-Aug-2022, 13:26

Aka notch sensitivity. CF can be made/spun/wound to greatly reduce this well known problem. This is also a very serious problem with CF bicycle frames. A small notch or stress fracture can cause a catastrophic failure.

Yes, but carbon fibre is much more reliable than it once was.

I have as much reason as anybody to be circumspect about the material. Years ago, the BBC interviewed my crew mates and I after an RNLI (Royal National Lifeboat Institute) lifeboat crew towed us and our high-tech, very expensive racing catamaran into Hartlepool. The BBC was doing a story about the lifeboat station, and who should conveniently come along to be rescued? Us. Why? We were headed for the English Channel to try to set a Cross-Channel record when our carbon fibre mast suddenly sheared right off just above the deck... in 5 knots of wind :) Pretty embarrassing, but not particularly uncommon with racing sailboats at the time. The owner (I was just crewing) was lucky that the lifeboat crew agreed not to cut the sails loose, because they cost a fortune. The old stories about carbon fibre failure can be entertaining, but carbon fibre manufacturing has come a long way in the last twenty years or so.

I won't use a clamp on carbon fibre tripod legs, but otherwise I don't worry about them.

Michael Wellman

25-Aug-2022, 14:00

I have a carbonfiber tripod (don't recall the brand) that I use for my SLRs and occasionally for 4x5, but my preference is still for the Rise tripods and heads when I use my 8x10 and ULF. A ball head I find difficult to use with heavier camera's and they are simpler to use. The articulating legs and how the legs are extended I find better as well. Not to mention the fact that you are dealing with wood.

Drew Wiley

25-Aug-2022, 14:46

Ha, Bernice! The definition of a trail seems to vary quite a bit on this forum. In my dictionary, if a cart can even get ten yards down one, it ain't a real trail, but a road. Of course, I have long preferred backpacking off trail, but do need to stick with some sort of trail more often as my driver's license keeps reminding me that I'm officially senior citizen age now, and am even gradually beginning to feel like one. Pelican cases? All that extra weight for nothing? And I've seen them crack with just a minor drop once the temp gets down around zero. The only thing I have in common with that kind of hard container lugging is that I'm stupid enough to be my own pack mule in the backcounty. Come to think of it, the mules are probably smarter. Did my 16th summer cowboying with an outfitter, but prefer the freedom of my own two feet over mules, horses, and llamas. None of the above modes of transportation comes equipped with wheels. But there's a new law coming into effect which demands that by the end of the decade, all transport livestock will have to be strictly electric. So new battery motor replacements should alleviate any aging knee or foot issues.

r.e.

25-Aug-2022, 15:25

Received the new tripod this afternoon, a Ries J100-2. I'll post about why I chose it over the other options, and how it performs, over the next few days.

I'll be trying out the approaches to camera attachment discussed in post #22. I also have a Ries Double Tilt Head (J250) (https://www.riestripod.com/product/the-j250-head/), which is currently in another country. If I decide that I need it, I'll have it sent to me. However, I'm pretty interested in getting this tripod to work with the Miller fluid head, for use with both my photography cameras and Blackmagic Cinema Camera. I think that the Ries would be an awesome support for the Blackmagic for pans, tilts and subject follows.

This is a good time to thank @Bernice Loui for talking with me about a couple of the options, and especially about what's involved in modifying a surveyor tripod.

Specifications

Material: Wood
Crown: 10cm (4”)
Maximum height: 152cm (62”)
Minimum height: 30.5cm (12”)
Maximum load: 29.5kg (65lb)
Folded length: 102cm (40”)
Weight (with bronze rather than aluminium knobs): 5kg (11lb)

Price: $718, more with certain hardware options and wood selections

Phone Snaps

Tripod (first leg section extended):

230394

Crown:

230395

r.e.

25-Aug-2022, 15:50

Don't want to get ahead of myself, but I'll make two observations now.

I think that this tripod is going to be easy to level from the legs. I'm sufficiently confident that I'm not going to have the Ries head referred to in the post above sent to me. I want to get fast at levelling this tripod without a head.

Secondly, I'm confident that the tripod will work well with a Riser (see post #21). Indeed, while Ries doesn't show Risers on its website, or even mention them, it sells Risers for use with its tripods. Someone talked about ProMediaGear in an earlier post. It makes the Riser (High Hat in filmmaker lingo) that I use, and that's shown in post #21: PMG 75mm High Hat (https://promediagear.com/products/trhh2-75mm-bowl-adapter-high-hat-6-inches-tall). Ries's High Hat is shown in post #38 below.

By the end of the weekend, I want this tripod and my Miller fluid head working smoothly together :)

Levelling the new tripod with a Machinist Level (pretty straightforward, not rocket science):

230396

Tin Can

25-Aug-2022, 16:18

I have a vintage walnut Ries Model C, a lighter tripod, same design

I prefer using spikes in grass with old wood cameras

r.e.

25-Aug-2022, 17:47

I'm adding the photo below because it isn't on Ries's website. I learned about the component and the photo during a discussion with Ries owner Spencer.

It's the Riser/High Hat that Ries sells for its tripods. It's aluminium, made by a company in California that makes gear for cinematography, and apparently available for 65mm, 75mm and 100mm bowls. It would work with both a levelling base and fluid head.

My understanding is that Ries tripods were in fairly common use as motion picture tripods at one time. I think that camera operators using a Ries tripod, at least as they are currently designed, probably would have been interested in a Riser/High Hat like this starting sometime in the early 1950s, if not sooner. The fluid head was invented, if I recall by an Australian whose design Miller heads were originally based on, in the late 1940s. The tripod design also suggests a long history of Ries tripods being levelled from the legs, not from a tripod head. Ries legs are a lot like surveyor tripod legs. Except for some high precision fine tuning at the end, surveyor tripods are levelled from the legs.

230397

r.e.

26-Aug-2022, 07:01

I've rotated the photos from Bernice Loui's post #27. The photos show her modified Dutch Hill Surveyor Tripod supporting a Sinar Norma.

230401

230403

230402

r.e.

26-Aug-2022, 10:03

My reasons for passing on the Gitzo Series 5 tripod...

Specifications for the Gitzo are in post #1.

The attraction of the Gitzo is that it would have been a complete replacement for my Series 3 tripod (G1325 MK II; the current version is GT3533LS). What's the difference between the two? The Series 5 offers a larger crown (90mm vs 70mm) and larger leg diameters. However, it doesn't offer much more mass (it's a bit less than 450g/1lb heavier). Given the cameras that I use (see post #1), I think that the upgrade, in real terms, would not have been very significant.

The upgrade felt particularly thin given the price of $1200. Because the standard bowl for this tripod is 100mm, I'd also need a special Gitzo 75mm bowl for its Series 5 tripods, at an additional cost of $140. Total: $1340 plus $120 sales tax = $1460. This is a lot more money than the other two options. I don't think that sale of my Series 3 tripod, which is no longer made, would offset the cost of the Series 5 enough to make the price attractive.

Finally, I was interested in getting away from the restrictions that carbon fibre tripods place on control over leg position. These limit the placement of a carbon fibre tripod on terrain, and make levelling a carbon fibre tripod without a head more difficult, compared to a surveyor tripod or a tripod, like the Ries, that works similarly to a surveyor tripod.

Bernice Loui

26-Aug-2022, 11:39

Thanks re.

:)
Bernice

I've rotated the photos from Bernice Loui's post #27. The photos show her modified Dutch Hill Surveyor Tripod supporting a Sinar Norma.

r.e.

26-Aug-2022, 11:42

My reasons for passing on the Leica Geosystems tripod...

Specifications for the Leica are in post #1.

I'm intrigued by surveyor tripods, and would like to try one that's been modified for photography, but I'm not ready to purchase one.

The up-front cost is attractive, but there are additional costs. In my case, I think that I would have had to hire someone to design and machine a crown. I also would have needed a solution for using the tripod on surfaces that are smooth, causing slipping, and can be damaged by spiked feet. Off-the-shelf solutions, in particular ground spreaders, aren't cheap. I concluded that the saving over a Ries, if any, wasn't worth the effort.

And then there's the basic reason. I decided that I didn't need a 6.4kg (14lb) tripod, and didn't relish carrying one around :)

If I try a surveyor tripod, maybe I'll become a convert (Bernice is a pretty good advertisement), but I'm not there yet.

Bernice Loui

26-Aug-2022, 11:57

Been using Gitzo tripods since the 1980.. when they were made in France. Yes, they are nicer made and such over the Bogen tripods back in those days. Having used both lots, the cost difference was simply not a good value as the Bogen did everything the Gitzo did at a lower cost for the smaller telescopic leg tripods. After all those decades, the only Gitzo keeper was the big Gitzo (think it is a series 4 or 5) that was used lots with the Sinar. It is mostly retired these days from all it's travels and being well-used.

What is nice about the Ries tripods are their leg locks, they are easy to adjust/set up and stays put at most any leg angle independently. Add to this the features common to high quality wood tripods. All this at a lower cost to a similar Gitzo outfit.

After the run with CF tripods, not convinced they are that much better than aluminum in most situations. Seems their prime advantage is lower weight, but combined with the problems and advantages of telescopic legs common to many CF tripods on the market today.

As previously mentioned, the majority tripod market is hand held camera market centric. These are often folks that really do want to use a tripod if possible. The other market would be the video/cinema folks which can be very serious in many ways as serious video/cinema folks take camera support very seriously.
This puts view camera tripods into a niche/speciality market..

Bernice

My reasons for passing on the Gitzo Series 5 tripod...

Specifications for the Gitzo are in post #1.

The attraction of the Gitzo is that it would have been a complete replacement for my Series 3 tripod (G1325 MK II; the current version is GT3533LS). What's the difference between the two? The Series 5 offers a larger crown (100mm vs 80mm, 4" vs 3") and larger leg diameters. However, it doesn't offer much more mass (it's a bit less than 450g/1lb heavier). Given the cameras that I use (see post #1), I think that the upgrade, in real terms, would not have been very significant.

The upgrade felt particularly thin given the price of $1200. Because the standard bowl for this tripod is 100mm, I'd also need a special Gitzo 75mm bowl for its Series 5 tripods, at an additional cost of $140. Total: $1340 plus $120 sales tax = $1460. This is a lot more money than the other two options. I don't think that sale of my Series 3 tripod, which is no longer made, would offset the cost of the Series 5 enough to make the price attractive.

Finally, I was interested in getting away from the restrictions that carbon fibre tripods place on control over leg position. These limit the placement of a carbon fibre tripod on terrain, and make levelling a carbon fibre tripod without a head more difficult, compared to a surveyor tripod or a tripod, like the Ries, that works similarly to a surveyor tripod.

Tin Can

26-Aug-2022, 12:58

I have at least 25 camera supports

My first and last only new

All useful

r.e.

26-Aug-2022, 14:08

Why I chose Ries's J100-2 over its A100...

Specifications that these two tripods have in common:

Material: Wood
Maximum height: 152cm (62")
Minimum height: 30.5cm (12")
Folded length: 102cm (40”)
Weight (with bronze rather than aluminium knobs): 5kg (11lb)

The J100-2 is $718, the A100 is $792, both more with certain hardware options and types of wood. The substantive difference between them is that the J100-2 crown is 10cm (4”) in diameter and the A100's is 15.2cm (6").

I asked Ries why these tripods weigh the same. Ries owner Spencer replied, and turned his response into a blog post (https://www.riestripod.com/why-do-the-ries-a100-and-j100-2-wooden-tripods-weigh-the-same/) that is now on the site:

"Why do the Ries A100 and J100-2 Wooden Tripods weigh the same?

"Question:

"The J100-2 with a 4″ diameter crown weighs the same as the A100 which has 6″ diameter crown. Why do they weigh the same if the J100-2 has a smaller crown?

"Answer:

"The weight reduction is from pockets that are milled on the inside of the A Crown and Platter. The A crowns and platters have milled out pockets that help increase strength but drastically reduce weight. The J crown profile does not have these pockets. Even though we want to make our tripods lighter there is a “target mass” for performance when it comes to stability, attenuation and reduced vibration. The J crown is exactly at its “target mass” without the pockets.

"Also, the legs of the J100-2 and the A100 are exactly the same."

Ries blog post photo:

Left: A100 crown
Right: J100-2 crown
Bottom: A100 platter

230416

For the cameras that I use (see post #1), I decided that I don't need or want the additional surface area and bulk of the A100 crown and platter. The additional surface area seems particularly pointless given that I frequently use a Miller fluid head. I also had some concern that another 5cm (2") of crown might get in the way in some cases, such as when using my QR clamp (FLM QLB-80) (https://www.flmcanada.com/product/flm-qlb-80-clamp/). People who use field cameras might have a different view.

As discussed in posts #35 and #36, I plan to try out the new tripod over the weekend. I'll post some additional photos, and comments on the tripod's performance.

Tin Can

26-Aug-2022, 14:36

Ries also offers brass or aluminum knobs

cost and weight

r.e.

26-Aug-2022, 15:24

Ries also offers brass or aluminum knobs

cost and weight

The material is bronze, not brass. The distinction from aluminium is made in the post just above yours and in other posts where I've provided weight.

I opted for bronze knobs, which are visible in the photos in posts #35 and #36. Choosing bronze over aluminium adds 450g (1lb) to the weight of the tripod, and $110 to the bill.

Bronze knobs (there are nine of them, which works out to a surcharge of $12 each):

230418

I'm happy to acknowledge that my reason for purchasing bronze knobs had nothing to do with functionality. I was pretty sure, correctly as it turned out, that bronze would suit the tripod that I ordered better than aluminium; and I wasn't particularly troubled by the additional weight. In other words, I went with form over function :) My impression, based on a brief discussion with Ries owner Spencer, is that a lot of people order aluminium. There's a weight saving, and one also avoids a $110 surcharge.

David Lindquist

26-Aug-2022, 17:23

The material is bronze, not brass. The distinction from aluminium is made in the post just above yours and in other posts where I've provided weight.

I opted for bronze knobs, which are visible in the photos in posts #35 and #36. Choosing bronze over aluminium adds 450g (1lb) to the weight of the tripod, and $110 to the bill.

Bronze knobs (there are nine of them, which works out to a surcharge of $12 each):

230418

I'm happy to acknowledge that my reason for purchasing bronze knobs had nothing to do with functionality. I was pretty sure, correctly as it turned out, that bronze would suit the tripod that I ordered better than aluminium; and I wasn't particularly troubled by the additional weight. In other words, I went with form over function :) My impression, based on a brief discussion with Ries owner Spencer, is that a lot of people order aluminium. There's a weight saving, and one also avoids a $110 surcharge.

Now that's a lovely Ries. Is that rosewood (maybe you said earlier)?

Regarding knobs, some years ago they offered as an option a knob that was machined from bar stock but its style was reminiscent of the old multi-fluted die cast knobs, the ones that said "RIES L.A." on the face. Don't see them on their website now.

I fully understand what you are saying here about deciding on bronze.

David

r.e.

26-Aug-2022, 17:36

My reasons for passing on the Gitzo Series 5 tripod...

The upgrade felt particularly thin given the price of $1200. Because the standard bowl for this tripod is 100mm, I'd also need a special Gitzo 75mm bowl for its Series 5 tripods, at an additional cost of $140. Total: $1340 plus $120 sales tax = $1460. This is a lot more money than the other two options.

Some people may notice that Ries tripods made from wood other than maple cost as much as the Gitzo tripod that I was considering. I think that I need to clarify this. Ries made a number of tripods from a wood that it doesn't normally offer, and I purchased the last copy. The statement in the quote above is correct for Ries's maple tripods, and is also correct for the tripod that I purchased.

r.e.

26-Aug-2022, 17:44

Now that's a lovely Ries. Is that rosewood...?
...
I fully understand what you are saying here about deciding on bronze.

Hi David,

We cross-posted as I was trying to explain an apparent, and related, blatant inconsistency in my posts.

To answer your question, yes.

Great to see another believer, at least in this case, in form over function :)

r.e.

27-Aug-2022, 10:04

There's very little on YouTube about the issues discussed in this thread or on Ries tripods. Rather than write more posts here, I've decided to make a video about the performance of the Ries. I'll be taking into account comments in this thread, many of which have been helpful in identifying issues that I should address. This will be the first video on a new, upcoming channel.

Cheers

Bernice Loui

27-Aug-2022, 11:39

Bronze knobs adds to the beauty of this Ries tripod. Bronze is more durable than aluminum in many ways. That extra weight of the bronze knobs might not sit well with "weight weeny" types that are so overly focused on lowest weight tripod and all related..

Regardless, curious to learn how this Ries tripod works out for you and your tripod needs.

Bernice

The material is bronze, not brass. The distinction from aluminium is made in the post just above yours and in other posts where I've provided weight.

I opted for bronze knobs, which are visible in the photos in posts #35 and #36. Choosing bronze over aluminium adds 450g (1lb) to the weight of the tripod, and $110 to the bill.

Bronze knobs (there are nine of them, which works out to a surcharge of $12 each):

230418

I'm happy to acknowledge that my reason for purchasing bronze knobs had nothing to do with functionality. I was pretty sure, correctly as it turned out, that bronze would suit the tripod that I ordered better than aluminium; and I wasn't particularly troubled by the additional weight. In other words, I went with form over function :) My impression, based on a brief discussion with Ries owner Spencer, is that a lot of people order aluminium. There's a weight saving, and one also avoids a $110 surcharge.

Drew Wiley

27-Aug-2022, 12:03

I put a small silicon bronze cleats like sailboats use on each of my three Ries legs for sake of hanging little things like a light meter or loupe. In salt air environments, bronze is dramatically superior to aluminum. But there are many kinds of "bronze" too, some just an ornamental color tweak of brass or even zinc pot metal rather than the highly resistant authentic alloys. Marine suppliers have the real deal. And silicon bronze screws are generally stronger than even most stainless, and way way stronger and less likely to break than brass.

David Lindquist

27-Aug-2022, 12:12

As historical information, Ries at one time offered a tripod with a crown with a leveling ball. It was called the H700 (not like the H-series Ries tripods of today). A 1977 price list describes it: "For heavy weight 8 x 10 cameras. Our most versatile Tripod. Has a 3-3/4" Ball in the top, allowing camera to be tilted in any direction." (Back then they didn't offer the A250/J250 heads.) "Tripod weighs 11-3/4 lbs." It had the legs of the A100 series.

In 1977 Ries was doing business as Ries Camera Co., Inc., located in Costa Mesa CA, probably a few ownerships and locations ago.

I'm going to try to attach some photos...

230427

David Lindquist

27-Aug-2022, 12:19

There's one, don't seem to be able to do more than one, trying for the other ...230428

And here its is, sorry for the cluttered back ground, did these quick and dirty with my iPhone out in the garage.

I bought this from Ries, probably when they were still in Costa Mesa. I'd gotten an F & B CECO cine head, friction type, at a photo swap meet and wanted to mate it to my A-100 Ries (one I had gotten used, that had been made for the Stoddard Radio Co.) and this looked like a way to do it. It did work but eventually I modified the F & B CECO to mount with a 3/8-16 screw and transferred the A100 legs to a 4" Ries crown. Then I went to a Sinar pan-tilt head which weighed rather less.

David

CreationBear

28-Aug-2022, 04:25

I put a small silicon bronze cleats like sailboats .

Kind of on the subject, Drew--any mods to your Ries that help you secure it to the pack frame while underway? I must admit that load shifting is a pet peeve of mine (hate being banged in the noggin when shouldering a pack--or, especially, "b'ar crawling" through rhody) but other than taking another bight around the sticks with a compression strap, I've yet to achieve a real stable configuration.

At any rate, I don't think anything can compare to the OP's Ries aesthetically--reminds me of my "flamed" cane flyrods. :)

Bernice Loui

28-Aug-2022, 12:05

Looks awful similar to the current BerleBach "integral" leveling ball head offering.

As one of those that is into leveling the tripod head before altering camera position, these leveling ball heads can aid in setting up tripod/camera position. IMO, the most significant tripod set up problem/question is where to place/set up the tripod.. what height (the "comfy" camera/lens heigh is often not the ideal image goal camera/lens height), followed by lens focal length with camera tweaks once all that is figured out.

Bernice

There's one, don't seem to be able to do more than one, trying for the other ...230428

And here its is, sorry for the cluttered back ground, did these quick and dirty with my iPhone out in the garage.

I bought this from Ries, probably when they were still in Costa Mesa. I'd gotten an F & B CECO cine head, friction type, at a photo swap meet and wanted to mate it to my A-100 Ries (one I had gotten used, that had been made for the Stoddard Radio Co.) and this looked like a way to do it. It did work but eventually I modified the F & B CECO to mount with a 3/8-16 screw and transferred the A100 legs to a 4" Ries crown. Then I went to a Sinar pan-tilt head which weighed rather less.

David

Bernice Loui

28-Aug-2022, 12:14

Bronze can be a remarkably durable/tough material in SO many ways. Ship/boat screws aka propellers made of Bronze is highly preferred due to durability, low corrosion and more in a harsh marine environment. Bronze alloys are notable for their use in bearings run on hard steel shafts.

Brass/Bronze is also found on piston engine exhaust hardware due to their heat tolerance and corrosion resistance.

FYI, those less desirable (due to weight) Goerz lens barrels are made of bronze alloy. Item of beauty often un-seen and un-appreciated.

Brass/Bronze is a often under appreciated metal that comes into it's own when properly selected and applied to a specific need/application.

Bernice

I put a small silicon bronze cleats like sailboats use on each of my three Ries legs for sake of hanging little things like a light meter or loupe. In salt air environments, bronze is dramatically superior to aluminum. But there are many kinds of "bronze" too, some just an ornamental color tweak of brass or even zinc pot metal rather than the highly resistant authentic alloys. Marine suppliers have the real deal. And silicon bronze screws are generally stronger than even most stainless, and way way stronger and less likely to break than brass.