Toyo 45CX and wooden cameras

[Rob P]

Hi guys,
I've been doing some research for my first 4x5 camera. I can afford the wooden field cameras like the Tachihara or the Shen Hao, and I've also been looking at the monorail Toyo 45CX.

I'm just wondering, is the Toyo 45CX more precise and stable in terms of movements and focusing compared to the wooden cameras?

I realize the Toyo is meant to be used differently than the wooden field cameras, however, I do not plan to go backpacking with any of the cameras, so really weight is not an issue. (Seriously, I'm not that picky - I don't need a 2 pound camera - I can handle a 10 pound camera out in the field, but I won't be doing it much at all). The camera will stay with me at home most of the time, in my studio and around the house, and maybe out on different locations a few times, close to my car.

So I guess my newbie question is:
Since the Toyo has geared focusing, and well, it's not a woodfield camera made of wood and brass, should I assume it'll be more precise in the studio due to geared focusing and the fact that it's a monorail? Just wondering what you guys think. Thanks for any replies.

- Rob

[paulr]

in my brief experience with monorail cameras, they are often more precise, and usually have more movements and more range of movements.

they're also a huge pain in the field. weight is part of the issue; size and ungainliness is the rest of it. my college had 4x5 calumet monorail cameras that we could check out. they came in these giant metal field boxes ... i don't know if this is standard for monorail cameras, but i hope not. every time i had to walk even half a block with one of these things i'd end up with bruises. it was like wrestling with a big appliance with a center of gravity was in the wrong place and sharp edges and corners everywhere. my field camera is like a point 'n shoot in comparison.

[Richard Kelham]

"So I guess my newbie question is: Since the Toyo has geared focusing, and well, it's not a woodfield camera made of wood and brass, should I assume it'll be more precise in the studio due to geared focusing and the fact that it's a monorail? Just wondering what you guys think. Thanks for any replies."

Short answer is 'Yes'. Slightly longer answer is to point out that some monorail (Arca for one) can be folded up fairly compactly for field work – but if that is not your thing then a monorail would seem ideal – for you.

Or you could cheat (like me) and get both!

[Jim Rhoades]

As long as money entered into the equation you can buy a 400 series Calumet for under $100. This is the camera that beat paulr up. The reason is that they were made to take student abuse and give it back. This would quickly and cheaply teach you if you can live with a monorail outside the studio.

You can buy a new Tach or Shen-Hao for about 7 times as much. If you really like and need the movements of a monorail you can then buy a lighter more compact and well made Arca Swiss for 20 times as much.

After abusing the Calumet for a few years you can sell it for what you paid. If along the way you come across a nice lens hang onto it for the next camera.

Don't be suprised if twenty years from now you still have and use your first #400.

[Ted Harris]

There are also metal field cameras. Not as inexpensive as the wood fields you mentioned but some often available used for not too much more. The most common are those from Canham, Toyo, Horseman, Wista and Linhof. All have a more precise 'feel' than the wooden fields although in the final analysis the results still depend on the photographer.

[John O'Connell]

If you're working out of the car, monorails are ideal. Stop car, lift box out of trunk, open box, and go. It'll be faster to use a monorail in that situation than a field camera because there's no need to unfold the camera. And monorails are definitely more precise, easier-to-work-with tools once you're set up.

For a beginner, the only real, functional difference between a low-end monorail and a low-end field camera is extension. With a monorail you can focus closer or use longer lenses than on the simple field cameras.

Jim's suggestion about the old Calumet probably isn't a bad one. I doubt it's much heavier, and adds geared front rise and a revolving back.

[steve simmons]

The real answer to your question is to decide what features you want in a camera - bellows extension, movements, weight, portability, etc. Also, try and decide what range of lenses you will be using. I recommend that the bellows be at least 25% longer than the longest lens and if you will be using anything shorter than a 90mm be sure the bellows is interchangeable witha bag or wide angle bellows.

There are several articles at this link that might be helpful

http://www.viewcamera.com/archives.html

Many people use wooden cameras very successfully so I would not let that decide for me one way or the other, It really is all about the features.

There are three books I recommend as good intro material. Try and find them in your local library

Jack Dykinga's Large Format Nature Photography

Jim Stone's User's Guide to the View Camera

and the book I did Using the View Camera

steve simmons

[jnantz]

hi rob

i have a toyo 45cx. it is a nice camera for the money. i use mine "in the field" to do architectural photography and i found it to be a pretty good deal for what i paid for it. it takes a really small lensboard (110mm square) and can take most-all the "stuff" that the other toyos take - viewers, compedium, bag bellows &C ... i haven't really given much thought to the percision of the movements. it really isn't "geared" at all ... you slide the standards up and down / side to side on the rail ...

i'm not sure what kind of lenses you have, but the only real drawback i have found with mine is that it can't handle a longish (370) lens, and while it is "modular" like the rest of the toyo line-up, i was told by toyo that you can get a longer rail for it. i use a 65mm ( why i bought the camera ). before i got this camera i used a graphic view II for about 12-15 years, and as said, the only reason it was sold was so i could use a really wide lens.

[Ben Calwell]

Rob,

My experience is different from some of the other posters. I used a monorail (Calumet series 400 view camera the one with 22 inches of bellows draw) in the field (never far from my car) for years and never regarded it as a burden. In fact, in some ways, it was faster and easier to set up than my folding, Wista field camera.
I would leave my tripod plate screwed on it, so all I had to do was whip it out of the case (the lens stayed on it) and onto the tripod, rack out the bellows and I was ready to shoot. The whole process was very easy.
And I don't remember it being particularly heavy (although I was younger then). I could fit everything, including film holders, into the case that came with the camera. So for me, a monorail in the field was no big deal. But then again, I wasn't carrying it long distances from the car, either.

[Patrik Roseen]

If you are doing mostly home/studio photography, you should consider a camera which allows long bellows because you will focus on short distance and not infinity, you will need 'rear standard focusing' for macro work, you will also like to have the lens at the most front of the camera to get up-close to the subject, you will likely use more extrem movements for plane of focus control (the closer to the subject the more extrem it need to be). It is also convenient if you can adjust Raise/Fall independently from Tilt (which is a problem for me when using my Linhof Kardan-S). This to me means that a monorail equipment is more useful for you.

[Ralph Barker]

A couple of points to which others haven't spoken: the monorail will certainly give you more flexibility than you'd have with a field camera, but "stability" is relative. The monorail design essentially becomes a teeter-totter on the tripod, and may require an additional brace in some situations. But, if most of your work will be in the studio, a monorail may be the best choice. You may also want to consider getting an additional shorter rail if you anticipate using shorter lenses. The 450mm rail that comes standard with the 45CX may prove to be a pain in the chest with shorter lenses, such as might be used for architecture. The rails are easy to swap, though.

Also, while the smaller, 110mm lens boards used on the CX will handle most modern lenses, the larger 158mm boards used on the 45C and other models adds the greater flexibility of accommodating larger (both modern and vintage) lenses. There is a 158/110 adapter board available, too, so if you "standardize" on mounting most of your lenses on the 110mm boards, as I have, it provides a nice platform.

I use a Toyo 45C and an 810G in the studio (or close to the vehicle), and a 45AX in the field. The modularity of the Toyo designs allows many of the components to be interchanged or used on the other cameras, which is another "plus" for the Toyo system. I've also adapted my Tachihara 8x10 wood field cam to use elements from the Toyo.

[steve simmons]

"The monorail design essentially becomes a teeter-totter on the tripod, and may require an additional brace in some situations. But, if most of your work will be in the studio, a monorail may be the best choice."

Monorails are used on location all the time. Ask any architectural photographer.

steve simmons

[Brian Ellis]

"I'm just wondering, is the Toyo 45CX more precise and stable in terms of movements and focusing compared to the wooden cameras."

Yes and yes. However, the real question is whether the benefits of the added precision and stability are worth the downside trade-offs to you. Wooden cameras in general are sufficiently precise and stable for most purposes, they wouldn't have been made for over 100 years if they weren't. While the weight of a monorail may not be a concern to you there are other considerations when using a monorail outside the studio, mainly their generally cumbersome nature and the time/effort involved in setting them up and taking them down. As a general proposition a wood camera will be more compact than a monorail camera and will be easier and faster to set up and take down. But whether that matters to you obviously depends on how often you'll be taking the camera out of your home/studio.

That's certainly not to say a monorail can't be used in the field, some people do it but it isn't something I'd do just to gain the extra precision and stability you mention. If I did it at all it would be because of the additional movements that, in general, are available with a studio camera as compared to a wood camera. As with the rest of this message, I'm speaking in generalities here, there are monorails with limited movements (e.g. the Toyo 45C or whatever the exact model designation is of the cheap Toyo monorail that doesn't have back movements) and wood cameras with extensive movements (e.g. some of the Ebony cameras). But as a general proposition most monorails have more movements than most wood cameras. You mention geared focusing with the Toyo. Almost all wood cameras have geared focusing but with many (including the two you mention) that's the only geared movement. But do you really care about having geared movements?

[Gary Johnson]

Wood cameras have a lot of character!

[SamReeves]

And they are babe magnets. :p