4x5 Grafmatic film backs

[GoodOldNorm]

4x5 Graflock film backs, do they work and is it worth buying one? What are the main problems with their use in the field ?

[Tin Can]

None

I use Horseman

but there are variations that don't work

What camera...

[GoodOldNorm]

None

I use Horseman

but there are variations that don't work

What camera...
Chamoix f1

[Tin Can]

Well

What type back?

120 film, Polaroid, DIGI

6X6, 6x7, 6X9....6X12

all can work, but heavy and unbalance that lightweight box

[Sert]

Well

What type back?

120 film, Polaroid, DIGI

6X6, 6x7, 6X9....6X12

all can work, but heavy and unbalance that lightweight box

not the OP but i have the 45F2 and does that work with DAYI 6x17 back?

[BrianShaw]

I assume that you are referring to Graflex roll film backs. If so, they work just fine in the field. They are a bit bulky but so what? One must be mindful of the dark slide, but so what? The best are the lever wind. They are susceptible to the wind spring breaking which is the only disadvantage versus the knob wind backs. Some say that film is flatter on lever wind backs because they added more rollers. I rarely use them when GG focusing because of the amount of handling required. On a press camera with a calibrated rangefinder they are a true delight.

[GoodOldNorm]

Well

What type back?

120 film, Polaroid, DIGI

6X6, 6x7, 6X9....6X12

all can work, but heavy and unbalance that lightweight box
I should make my question a little more specific,I was asking about the 4x5 sheet film backs that hold 6 sheets of film.

[Louis Pacilla]

Grafmatic holder. Some love them, some hate them. I,m in between the two. As a result I only own a couple & occasionally use them.

[domaz]

Using a Grafmatic with a Graflok back is great for reflex cameras or for shots using a calibrated rangefinder to focus. The big disadvantage is the Graflok back better have a lot of holding force on the retaining rails, or when cycling the Grafmatic it could "pull back" causing a light leak. Reinforcing the Graflok with rubber bands etc is not a bad idea to avoid this.

[FredrickSummers]

I don't have an F1, but I use a 45h1, close-ish camera. I carry 2 graphmatics and have used them for many years. I love these things. My main films stay in them, the rest go in holders. Be sure you read the instruction on how to use them. As long as you get a good condition one they tend to last forever and are fairly easy to repair when problems come.

I use them almost every time I go out and normally just under the ground glass. I will use the locks if its windy or something though.

[BrianShaw]

I should make my question a little more specific,I was asking about the 4x5 sheet film backs that hold 6 sheets of film.

I find them to be way more work than they are worth. On a press camera with a rangefinder they aren't too bad but on a view camera, especially a light one, regular film holders seem much better suited.

[Bernice Loui]

That would be a 4x5 grafmatic film holder.. holds six sheets per holder.

Yes, they work good long as they are clean, film septum plates are not bent and the mechanism properly lubricated with dry lube like wax.
The film septum plates are subject to being bent.. which cause all sorts of grief. If the mechanism get dirty or stuck with dirt and such, there will also be problems.. Know many of these on the used market have already had a VERY hard life as they were the staple of 4x5 press camera photographers. Back in the 1990's when many of these were available on the used market, plenty of them were already plenty beat and tired. Suspect the difficult today is to obtain examples that are not totally wore out and beat..

Back in the 4x5 years, used two 4x5 grafmatic film holders for 12 sheets of film with a Linhof Technika (had more than one) and at times with the Sinar. This pair was new in box purchased circa early 90's.. they never had any problems and were nice in many ways.. In time purchased a pile of good not bent film septum plates. These were difficult to find back then.


Bernice




I should make my question a little more specific,I was asking about the 4x5 sheet film backs that hold 6 sheets of film.

[Tin Can]

Grafmatics do jam and will really piss you off

I did buy a new Japanese copy, very good, bought from Japan and a good seller

not cheap and becoming rare

[Corran]

I now own 8 Grafmatics as well as a Kinematic.

Grafmatics are fantastic for packing smaller and lighter. Admittedly, they are heavy metal bricks so the weight savings compared to 3 lightweight holders is minimal, but its there and also the smaller footprint is really nice for packing more in less space (hiking).

I've used them almost exclusively for years now. They aren't perfect - I will occasionally have a sheet with really bad dust issues (lots of black unexposed dots from dust on the film during exposure). Using a rocket blower on every septum before closing them up is recommended, but racking the holder in and out inevitably shakes things loose or whatever and so you will have dust. Take two shots if you are worried about it on a really important image. I generally only have occasional issues on 1 sheet in a set of 6. The only other issue is the occasional jam. Generally, I can get it to clear by taking the camera off the tripod and leaning it back or forward until the jam clears. It's usually just the septum needing to not have gravity pulling it into the travel of the mechanism or something like that. I think only once have a had to leave the back "out" and stop shooting for the day to save the images. I do keep a film loading bag in my car just in case, for any issues I might have with film cameras.

Definitely be careful racking the holder to the next sheet if you aren't using a camera with strong springs. I've had issues with pulling the back slightly with my Chamonix so I always hold the back closed with the other hand while racking. On a Speed Graphic or Technika I don't need that and can easily shoot and rack in one motion and blow through several sheets quickly if needed.

I suppose the big issue with Grafmatics these days is folks ask way too much for them.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I have six 4x5" Graflex Graphmatic backs. Mainly I use them on my 9x9cm Plaubel Makiflexes. Sometimes with my Norma Sinar Handy. Very quick in that regard. Sometimes in the studio depending what is loaded. Fuji HRU only horizontal, the film is quite thin and "floats around". No issues with horizontal XRAY film, smooth going. Vertical HRU shots jam repeatedly in 4x5 Graphmatic

[domaz]

Grafmatics do jam and will really piss you off

I did buy a new Japanese copy, very good, bought from Japan and a good seller

not cheap and becoming rare

Yes, not being able to push the magazine back in after taking a shot and attempting to cycle.. that's a terrible moment of dread. In the field you are pretty much toast when that happens unless you happened to bring along a dark tent.

[Tin Can]

I almost prefer plates in Mag Bags

[Gary Samson]

This topic doesn't really belong in the ULF thread.

[sharktooth]

I really like the Grafmatics, but there is one practical problem when using them. Once you pull the dark slide to make an exposure, the septum moves forward and is no longer protected from light, even when you push the slide back in. To protect the film from light, you have to advance the unit. This isn't a problem unless you decide not to take the shot after you've pulled the slide. At that point, your options are to advance the holder (and record the number that wasn't exposed), and then get that septum out in a darkroom for use another time. It can get very complicated unless you take very good records.

There are lots of reasons why you may not take the shot after the dark slide has been pulled, such as changing light conditions, wind picked up, or your subject moved or changed. In cases like this, a conventional film holder is the better option, since you can just push the dark slide in and remove the film holder for use another time. You can't do that with a Grafmatic.

[Corran]

On all my Grafmatics, I use the white memo area for notes. I write 1 through 6, and notate if I need to their N development. A couple times, I've had that exact circumstance, and skipped the sheet. If needed, I can come back around to it once the holder is cycled through by carefully cycling the sheets back around while the holder is inserted. Make sure the lens preview isn't opened! :)

[LabRat]

Grafmatics can jam due to film slippage in a septum... Especially in vertical orientation, the film can partially dislodge during cycling and not return preventing proper shuffling... The film hold downs can be weak over time and bases can be thinner than yesteryear...

A dot of tape on the open end of the septum will prevent the film from slipping out...

Steve K

[Neal Chaves]

In the late '80s and '90s I did some aerial photography with 4X5 sheet film and 6X9 120 and 220 roll film. I flew in a J3 Cub, a 172 Cessna and a Piper Warrior. I tried Grafmatics and has been mentioned it was hard to find good magazines and septums even then. When in the air over the subject or scene to be photographed, there is frequently only a chance for one or two exposures on each pass of the aircraft. I soon learned that I could make the first exposure, then insert the slide in a standard holder, flip it over and pull the slide out for the second exposure just as fast and without possible malfunctions of a Grafmatic.

In 6X9, Ilford XP2 delivered results that rivaled or exceeded 4X5 Tri-X, but now many of my favorite XP2 negatives have deteriorated and are unprintable. Not all, but of those that went out to labs for processing, many have fared badly.

[domaz]

On all my Grafmatics, I use the white memo area for notes.

I found a series of Grafmatics were the white memo area was marked "Penthouse". No undeveloped film was in them, and maybe it was just an architectural photographer.. but it's interesting to think what shots these Grafmatics have seen.

[archphotofisher]

I am a firm believer in the Grafmatic holders, once I discovered the Grafmatic holders I cut my hauling gear down to 10 grafmatics holders from 30 4x5 sheet film holders. That's shooting b&w and color transparencies and if the client wanted color negative film add another 15 holders or another 5 grafmatics.

when pulling the slide out one should hold the camera back/ ground glass frame with one hand while the other hand is pulling and pushing the grafmatic film swap.

whatever you do don't drop the film plates the little extensions on the plates bend very easily making film loading difficult and can cause jamming when swapping film.

[GoodOldNorm]

I am a firm believer in the Grafmatic holders, once I discovered the Grafmatic holders I cut my hauling gear down to 10 grafmatics holders from 30 4x5 sheet film holders. That's shooting b&w and color transparencies and if the client wanted color negative film add another 15 holders or another 5 grafmatics.

when pulling the slide out one should hold the camera back/ ground glass frame with one hand while the other hand is pulling and pushing the grafmatic film swap.

whatever you do don't drop the film plates the little extensions on the plates bend very easily making film loading difficult and can cause jamming when swapping film.

Thank you to everyone for the info. Is it advisable to lubricate the septums?

[Maris Rusis]

All my Grafmatics have been freed up and rescued with the following procedure.

Good septums are absolutely essential. First I check, bend, tweak, every septum so it has straight edges just like new. Grafmatic jams can distort, or crimp septums depending on how heavy handed and desperate the previous owner was. Often a Grafmatic is sold because it jams. Repeat: bent septums are usually both the cause and the result of a jam. Apart from the rolled edges of a Grafmatic septum the closed end has a couple of tiny leaf springs (fingers?) that capture the edge of the film and hold it securely against slipping out. These thin metal fingers can be bent down (carefully) so as to leave almost zero clearance. This way any film of any thickness can be held securely. When loading a septum in the darkroom I always give it a light tap downwards to make sure the film doesn't want to slide out.

Once the septums are perfect I spray the Grafmatic with stuff like RP-7 or WD-40 until it is oily. Working the Grafmatic through several cycles distributes the oil where it wants to go. The action should be butter smooth by now.

Then I clean (clean!) the oil from every external surface, every septum, and every surface I or the film could touch. The inner mechanism is left with a thin oily film. This has the effect of maintaining lubrication while providing a sticky surface to trap any dust particles raised by the film change mechanism crashing back and forth.

I have built my working Grafmatic collection from other peoples unreliable gear. Provided nothing is missing or broken Grafmatics can be resuscitated.

[Mark Sampson]

I learned about Grafmatics (and Tri-X filmpack) when studying with Norman McGrath in 1989. He spoke highly of them, so I had to try them. The magazines were old, my technique imperfect, and it was a failure; I sold them. About 10-15 years later, I gave them another shot; essentially the same results and a few lost photos. So they are not for me... one thing I did decide was that they would work well with a hand-held Speed Graphic, not as well with a lightweight field camera, where the effort required to change film always moved the camera or tripod. I am pleased to see people using them successfully.
(And I do wish Kodak still made TXP film pack, that's gone though, never to return.)

[archphotofisher]

Thank you to everyone for the info. Is it advisable to lubricate the septums?

I would never place any oil on the septums; oil on your film wouldn't go over very well. I would place very little between the outside edges of the film compartment and then on the holder's inside walls.

[Jim Andrada]

I like them - BUT as was said above, if you decide not to take the photo, you have to make a complete cycle to the next film for the next shot - basically forget about the sheet you "didn't use". Unless you're a lot better at record keeping than I am.