Wide angle lens on folded-up Master Technika

[Guglielmo]

Hi to all.

I realised that some time ago this topic has been already discussed but please I would be updated about the following:

which are the modern wide-angle lens which may be fitted to Linhof Master Technika with folded-up lid? I shoot mainly hand-held with viewfinder focusing so this is important to easy carry the camera in my backpack.

Thank you for kind helpful suggestions!

Guglielmo

[Bob Salomon]

None

[Guglielmo]

Thanks Bob!

Nevertheless I read somewhere that the 8/90 Nikkor SW onto Linhof recessed board may be hosted inside camera...

Did you know about it?

[Embdude]

The Zeiss 135mm Planar just fits inside (on a special lensboard to help it to do so) so I would suggest searching to see if anything is of a similar or smaller dimension...

With the camera closed up, you have ~41mm of space in front of the lens board before you hit the focus cam, and ~ 35mm behind the lens board before you hit the ground glass...

This gives you a total of 76mm or less... the 8/90 Nikkor SW is listed as 71mm in size so it has potential if it is less than 41mm on the longest side...

[Conrad . Marvin]

If you add push on lens cap thickness that sounds really close even with a special recessed board.

[Bob Salomon]

The Zeiss 135mm Planar just fits inside (on a special lensboard to help it to do so) so I would suggest searching to see if anything is of a similar or smaller dimension...

With the camera closed up, you have ~41mm of space in front of the lens board before you hit the focus cam, and ~ 35mm behind the lens board before you hit the ground glass...

This gives you a total of 76mm or less... the 8/90 Nikkor SW is listed as 71mm in size so it has potential if it is less than 41mm on the longest side...

That’s not a wide angle lens. Plus the front diameter of the lens has to be smaller then the hole in the front standard.

[Embdude]

That’s not a wide angle lens. Plus the front diameter of the lens has to be smaller then the hole in the front standard.
True, I just use the 135mm as a baseline for what can fit and most wides have will have larger diameter ends... May have to just use the old-fashioned Angulon or a contemporary wide field Ektar or Wollensak WA...

[Bob Salomon]

That’s not a wide angle lens. Plus the front diameter of the lens has to be smaller then the hole in the front standard.

Seems a shame to base your choice this way rather then which lenses are the stellar performers.
After all, regardless of how the lens is stored, you still have to open the camera, maybe drop the bed - which means removing and reinstalling the cam, pull the lens standard out to the infinity stops.
Simply clipping a lens board on is the quickest part of the setup.
I intentionally didn’t mention pulling caps and checking and removing dust or adding filters.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

In my opinion, it is ok to pay attention to the size of the lenses. The Technika is a very good place to store lenses.

This being said, when hiking I am happy not to have to reach extra into my backpack. I have the film holders in a side pocket. The light meter hangs around the neck with the magnifying glass. Now what's the point of putting the backpack down to take out a lens that can fall on the ground?

There are excellent mini performers. There is the very good Fujinon 5.6/105 NW with 46mm filter thread and EBC coating, but small image circle. The Fujinon 5.6/125 NW is one of my sharpest lenses. I took the best pictures with it. In the 35mm range, that would be a focal length of about 35mm. The Fujinon 5.6/135 NW is already a very good standard lens.

The simple Angulon 6.8/90 is also very good, but you have to stop that down to f32, and it has the smallest image circle of all. I haven't tried the Kodak Wide Field Ektar 6.7/100, which is supposed to be very sharp. I am put off by the old shutter speeds on it. Is it possible to put this lens in a more modern Copal 0?

About the Fujinon SW 8/90: this is also excellent, but larger. Sometimes you can use the lenses in reverse. With the front lens facing the ground glass. Then the Technika can be closed. Maybe that helps?

There is still the old venerable Super-Angulon 8/75. This is very small, it sits in a Copal 0 and has a very small front diameter. It's also shorter than the Fujinon SW 8/90, but it doesn't have the EBC coating, and the camera base sticks out into the frame in portrait mode. Furthermore, the image circle is small here as well.

[John Layton]

If I happen to have a lens mounted to a camera during transport...I am very careful not to assess a potential location based on that particular lens - unless its the only lens I have with me at the time.

[Guglielmo]

Thank you very much to all for helpful contribution and ideas!

Now I am pretty convinced about the possibility to utilise a wide-angle excellent lens disregarding the fold-up capability to host it in Technika body.

I know that changing a lens in LF field camera is much different from 35mm reflex... Cams, infinity stops, huge boards... Anyway when trekking I never bring several lens, I decide in advance depending on my "mood" and, mainly, on landscape and weather characteristics.

Just to recap: disregarding the fold-up internal hosting capability which is your suggested true wide-angle for Master Technika? I mean the sharpest and, with color film, the more natural and realistic according to your tastes?

Thanks again for very interesting help!

[Bob Salomon]

Thank you very much to all for helpful contribution and ideas!

Now I am pretty convinced about the possibility to utilise a wide-angle excellent lens disregarding the fold-up capability to host it in Technika body.

I know that changing a lens in LF field camera is much different from 35mm reflex... Cams, infinity stops, huge boards... Anyway when trekking I never bring several lens, I decide in advance depending on my "mood" and, mainly, on landscape and weather characteristics.

Just to recap: disregarding the fold-up internal hosting capability which is your suggested true wide-angle for Master Technika? I mean the sharpest and, with color film, the more natural and realistic according to your tastes?

Thanks again for very interesting help!

90mm 4.5 or 6.8 Grandagon N

[nobrains]

schneider angulon 90mm 6.8 should fit

[Bob Salomon]

schneider angulon 90mm 6.8 should fit

But it is a lens for 9x12cm and doesn’t fully cover 45. Especially if you want to use movements.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

The multicoated one with the center filter and the barn door ...

[Bernice Loui]

Lens is the lesser issues here, hand held image making is.

Consider the shutter speed used for a lens taking aperture of f16_f22 (exception being Rodenstock35mm, 45mm, 55mm APO grandgon which is optimized for f11 or Zeiss Biogon optically GOOD at f4.5) which is where modern wide angle lenses are optimized for?
Yes, the 90mm f4.5 Grandagon is good. Used this lens extensively for about three decades and to this day for 4x5 & 5x7. There are equally good 90mm lenses from Nikkor (90mm f4.5 sw), Schneider (90mm f5.6 Super Angulon), Fujinon (90mm f5.6 SWD).. They are much identical in optical performance at f16_f22.

Know these are NOT small lenses or light weight lenses..

The f8 version of these lenses are also more similar than different with the exception of the 90mm f8 sw Nikkor which has a larger image circle than the others at f22.

Then into older wide angle designs like the Schneider 90mm f6.8 Angulon.. Regardless of what is posted to the web and folks that TooT about how this lens "covers" 4x5.. not quite and just barely at f22..
229875

Other older wide angle lenses would be Goerz wide angle Dagor, Kodak wide field Ektar and others.. None will properly cover 4x5 at full aperture for a focal length that is considered wide angle on 4x5, all must be stopped down to f16 and smaller to cover (maybe) and have proper optical performance.

Then comes the question of camera movement using a hand held press camera ala Linhof Technika.. Not gonna work too well. This combined with the need for slow shutter speeds due to the need for lens apertures of f16 or smaller does not mix well with a hand held 4x5... regardless of brand or hand held camera type.

Difficulty here is trying to impose the habits and ways of using a box camera with a fixed lens and image recorder means (film or digital) to a sheet film camera which is inherently different than the fixed lens box camera.

And if a lens shorter ala wider than a 90mm is used on the Linhof Technika, one will discover an entire world of less than pleasant camera difficulties, from dropping the bed to recessed lens boards to the Linhof wide angle focusing device needed on some variants of the Technika.. Technika is not the ideal camera for wide angle lenses.. 90mm on 4x5 would have the least problems on the Technika.


Bernice

[Tin Can]

Way back when these cameras were first conceived wouldn’t flash have been used handheld?

[Bernice Loui]

Ala Speed Graphic, Crown Graphic and... yes indeediee..
First up was the flash bulb gun with a bag full of flash bulbs, then came the Graflex 200 watt/second "portable" electronic strobe unit.
Page 6:
https://ghq.graflex.org/GHQ-13-1.pdf

This was how press photographers did "zone focus" achieving f16 or so..
Add a few grafmatic film holders.. to ease issues of multi sheet film needs.

Eventually 120 roll film began to replace the 4x5 hand held press camera, then 35mm, then digital, then mobile phone cameras..


Bernice



Way back when these cameras were first conceived wouldn’t flash have been used handheld?

[Tin Can]

Great link, I never saw before

This tidbit also interesting

"One Circuit printing frame 8" x 6 feet"

Thank you



Ala Speed Graphic, Crown Graphic and... yes indeediee..
First up was the flash bulb gun with a bag full of flash bulbs, then came the Graflex 200 watt/second "portable" electronic strobe unit.
Page 6:
https://ghq.graflex.org/GHQ-13-1.pdf

This was how press photographers did "zone focus" achieving f16 or so..
Add a few grafmatic film holders.. to ease issues of multi sheet film needs.

Eventually 120 roll film began to replace the 4x5 hand held press camera, then 35mm, then digital, then mobile phone cameras..


Bernice

[gary mulder]

My Schneider 80mm f/4.5 Super-Symmar XL on a Linhof recessed board fits inside the Master Technika without caps or center filter.

[Guglielmo]

Thank you so much again to all contributors!

Now my ideas are clearer... The main important topic is the "quality" of the lens in terms of sharpness and whatever we like for wished results.

Other suggestion helpful for me is that from Gary:

My Schneider 80mm f/4.5 Super-Symmar XL on a Linhof recessed board fits inside the Master Technika without caps or center filter.


A true wde-angle according to my specs :cool: Now I've to chase for it!

[Bernice Loui]

Buyer/user beware, the Schneider 80mm f5.6 Super Simmer XL has a history of problems.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?15123-Schneider-Super-Symmar-XL-series-haze-and-fog-problems


Bernice



Thank you so much again to all contributors!

Now my ideas are clearer... The main important topic is the "quality" of the lens in terms of sharpness and whatever we like for wished results.

Other suggestion helpful for me is that from Gary:

My Schneider 80mm f/4.5 Super-Symmar XL on a Linhof recessed board fits inside the Master Technika without caps or center filter.


A true wde-angle according to my specs :cool: Now I've to chase for it!

[Greg]

Probably going on 20 years now so don't remember the exact details, but a friend had a Technika (? model) that he used with a (WA?) Dagor on it. The camera did close with the lens. Distinctly remember the other two lenses he had in his outfit: 150mm f/2.8 Xenotar and a 210mm Apo-Lanthar. Everything was in an OEM Linhof case. Knew him for many years and never remember him taking a single picture with the camera!!!

[Guglielmo]

Thanks Bernice for warning information...

So the chase must be careful and with a lot of wariness :cool:

Actually I noticed that various sellers declare

Very slight haze in front cell. It is barely noticable and it should not affect the image qualities


or

It has the common ‘Schneideritus’ which is the degrading of the dark coating of the elements. This usually does not affect images


Better safe than sorry...

[David Lindquist]

Probably going on 20 years now so don't remember the exact details, but a friend had a Technika (? model) that he used with a (WA?) Dagor on it. The camera did close with the lens. Distinctly remember the other two lenses he had in his outfit: 150mm f/2.8 Xenotar and a 210mm Apo-Lanthar. Everything was in an OEM Linhof case. Knew him for many years and never remember him taking a single picture with the camera!!!

Regarding this, my Master Technika 3000 will close when a 4 3/8 inch Wide Angle Dagor, No. 1 rim-set Compur is mounted. Of course the OP asked about modern wide angle lenses, a description that I don't think fits the Wide Angle Dagor, or, for that matter, the Angulon. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with these lenses.

David