How to imitate the contrast of wet plate

[david@bigeleisenlaw.com]

I would like to get a contrast in prints similar to that which we see in wet plate. Does anyone have any suggestions? Am I dreaming?

David

[Two23]

Wet plate has about five stops of dynamic range. Another thing is it's only sensitive to blue light.

Kent in SD

[paulbarden]

Wet Plate images don't have a unique contrast range, and in fact, we have to fight harder to get enough contrast in our images. Many films are more contrasty than wet plate collodion. Perhaps its the "red blind" sensitivity you're wanting?

[Mark Sawyer]

I would like to get a contrast in prints similar to that which we see in wet plate. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have a suggestion. Do wet plates.

[david@bigeleisenlaw.com]

Yes, I think that the red blind effect is what I am looking for. Do I want a blue filter or a green one?
Thanks.

David

[koraks]

Try a blue filter. If that doesn't work, resort to UV photography. Most of the sensitivity of wet plate is in the UV band close to the visible spectrum.

[jnantz]

are you making darkroom prints or are you working on a computer?

scan your file ( paper negative or film negative doesn't matter ) you open the contrast sliders and dial things down, then you go into levels and make adjustments and then you burn and dodge, and repeat until it looks the way you want. Scanning in color and splitting the channels will help too. (you toss the ones you don't like). You can make a print as a Digital C-Print or pigment print or invert it and print that as a digital negative and contact print it in the darkroom. (I use printers that cost less than 100$ a brother laser and epson 640 and some of my negatives and Xerox shop outputs when I was in school rivaled those printed on a very expensive epson ( for salt, albumin &c prints, and home made LSGE, sometimes you don't really need ultra high end) ...

if you are hoping to make modern materials look that way ...
you might start with paper negatives+flat light and develop them in a developer like caffenol c. Don't use HC110 or Xtol or dektol / d72 / ansco 13o or whatever like you would use to make a darkroom print. Paper negatives can have issues that way. Anyways, that's how I do it, and I split develop it ansco130 or d72 until the image barely appears then into caffenol ( I use teaspoon recipe but don't measure ) spiked with about 20cc /L of 130 or 72 and back and forth until it is to completion. if you can get ahold of old paper not like 60 years old old but something that is expired you might have lying around on a darkroom shelf (that you know hasn't been roasted, humidified and ruined) that helps too. it will give you a head start in the the computer work...

you can also look into silver gelatin ferrotype developers (like people use with JLane Dry Plates &c ). you will have to figure out a way to blacken your paper, or buy JLane's black plates, or coat your own with bottled developer or self made ...it will give you a image that is similar to the look you want, but not quite ( and traditional wet plate tin typists might be able to tell and call you a fraud LOL! ). Creamy mid tones blacks and sometimes whites ( you'll have to google modern ferrotype or silver gelatin ferro (or ambero ) type that's what some folks are calling them. I've been trying to print them on photo paper that I coat and expose to light and make black (first) and then re-coat them (with limited success), and I've used black watercolor paper also (with limited success). There are also modern SVG reversal recipes in the Darkroom Cookbook and I think Christopher James' book. Around IDK 1900-1920 there used to be suppliers of ferrotype paper and proprietary developers (like the Chicago Ferrotype Company) and that's what these are the current version. If you ever come across a Mandelette PostCard Camera it had developing tanks that attached to the bottom of the camera so street photographers could make portraits &c on the spot ( think Afghan Camera but not ) and did what you want to do. The developer were all secret formulas ( like the Rockland Developer is today). Might just be easier to learn how to do WP ..

good luck ( and be careful )

[LabRat]

Blue sensitive X-ray film is pretty contrasty...

Steve K

[Greg]

Last year I was shooting with a Petzval projection lens on my 120 camera and forgot to change the film box end that was attached to the back of my camera. Shot the roll of Ilford FP4+ in the camera thinking that I was shooting Ilford Delta 3200. Severely underexposed so I developed the roll in Rodinal 1:25 for a long time (probably around 25 minutes). Printed up a few of the negatives and they did slightly have the wet plate look, but I honestly attribute that mostly to the lens that I was using. If you're not going to shoot wet plates, this might be a good (loosely using that term) starting point.

In the 1970s and 1980s I did a lot of Lith printing with Kodak's single weight Kodalith paper. The paper was discontinued and after I ran out my stock discontinued Lith printing. After acquiring a dozen or so boxes of outdated Portriga Rapid FB paper last year, I decided to try to duplicate the look of my previous years Lith prints. After two or three sessions in the darkroom, it was obvious to me that "duplicating" that original Lith look was not possible, so I decided to pursue getting a similar "Lith" look to my prints but decidedly different. If you're not going to actually do the wet plate process, I'd suggest that you go for a similar or parallel look to your images but definitely not an imitation of the wet plate look.

good luck

[paulbarden]

Yes, I think that the red blind effect is what I am looking for. Do I want a blue filter or a green one?
Thanks.

David

David, using a color filter is only going to get you partway to your goal. I recommend using a red blind film instead. The Arista Ortho is inexpensive, totally red blind (meaning you can develop it in trays under a safelight: an asset, since you can visually inspect the film for correct development) and with some extra effort, you can get usable "pictorial" contrast with it. Its a very slow film (3 ASA) and will only give the best results if pre-flashed with white light. (You have to do this with an enlarger, and determine the right amount of exposure by testing)
If that sounds like a lot of work, well - it is, unless you are an experienced darkroom technician. Of course, you can always learn wet plate collodion and hit the bullseye.

[ic-racer]

I would like to get a contrast in prints similar to that which we see in wet plate. Does anyone have any suggestions? Am I dreaming?

David
The silver shows as white/gray on a black background with wetplate. Conventional printing paper, the silver shows as black on a white background.

You can prepare and present negatives with the emulsion side up against a black background and get a positive image if viewed correctly.

Here is a conventional negative held against a black background producing a Left/Right reversed positive image as a wetplate would.
229438

I presume you have familiarity with wet plate images viewed in person and are not trying to reproduce these fake images seen on internet:
229439

[Jim Noel]

It is hard for me to understand why people want ways to duplicate wet plate, or platinum prints, or any other process instead of learning to do the process. Is it lack of material availability, or money. or space, or mental or physical laziness? I suggest it usually is the last two of these.
If you want to learn a process get a good book on it, or take a class or do as many of us who learned it in the past did - dive in, study and work hard and you will get far more satisfaction from your achievement.

[gypsydog]

It is hard for me to understand why people want ways to duplicate wet plate, or platinum prints, or any other process instead of learning to do the process. Is it lack of material availability, or money. or space, or mental or physical laziness? I suggest it usually is the last two of these.
If you want to learn a process get a good book on it, or take a class or do as many of us who learned it in the past did - dive in, study and work hard and you will get far more satisfaction from your achievement.

+1

[paulbarden]

It is hard for me to understand why people want ways to duplicate wet plate, or platinum prints, or any other process instead of learning to do the process. Is it lack of material availability, or money. or space, or mental or physical laziness? I suggest it usually is the last two of these.
If you want to learn a process get a good book on it, or take a class or do as many of us who learned it in the past did - dive in, study and work hard and you will get far more satisfaction from your achievement.

I get what you're saying, I do. But I've been making wet plate collodion photographs for five years now, and even though I'm pretty good at making collodion on glass negatives (my preferred method), I admit that it gets to be tedious and tiresome, and can be very limiting. I'm fed up with taking my wet plate darkroom on the road. Its just so much work. So I can understand why someone might want to create "the look" without investing many hours of practice, hundreds of dollars in materials and tools, and potentially still struggle to get good results consistently. Its not a forgiving medium, and there are so many variables at play. "Perfection" with wet plate is a constantly moving target - weather and the condition of your chemistry both conspire to get in the way of making a good plate.

If someone is willing to really dedicate themselves to learn and master the process, then yes - they're going to get a lot more satisfaction out of their work. But I also understand why someone would want to emulate "that look" without having to commit to an expensive, difficult process.

[jnantz]

It is hard for me to understand why people want ways to duplicate wet plate, or platinum prints, or any other process instead of learning to do the process. Is it lack of material availability, or money. or space, or mental or physical laziness? I suggest it usually is the last two of these.
If you want to learn a process get a good book on it, or take a class or do as many of us who learned it in the past did - dive in, study and work hard and you will get far more satisfaction from your achievement.

hi Jim

sometimes it has to do with lack of funds to spend on materials, and photographic materials cost a fortune. my chain of events had to do with not having money to spend and having a lot of materials I could use and push to their limits.
I can't speak for anyone else but my intention was never to duplicate anything but to make something. YMMV

[Vaughn]

With silver gelatin film/paper and chemistry, one can get all sorts of 'looks'. Golfball grain to fine grain, short or long tonal ranges, and so forth. If the tonality of wet plate or a particular version of a non-silver process is appealing, why not use that tonality as a point of departure in discovering what silver gelatin can be made to do? Silver gelatin prints are not required to look like silver gelatin prints. Alt process prints are not forbidden to look like silver gelatin prints.

[maltfalc]

David, using a color filter is only going to get you partway to your goal. I recommend using a red blind film instead. The Arista Ortho is inexpensive, totally red blind (meaning you can develop it in trays under a safelight: an asset, since you can visually inspect the film for correct development) and with some extra effort, you can get usable "pictorial" contrast with it. Its a very slow film (3 ASA) and will only give the best results if pre-flashed with white light. (You have to do this with an enlarger, and determine the right amount of exposure by testing)
If that sounds like a lot of work, well - it is, unless you are an experienced darkroom technician. Of course, you can always learn wet plate collodion and hit the bullseye.wet plate is not orthochromatic or "red blind". it's a plain silver halide emulsion, uv, violet and blue sensitive. a blue-violet passing filter will work fine.

[paulbarden]

wet plate is not orthochromatic or "red blind". it's a plain silver halide emulsion, uv, violet and blue sensitive. a blue-violet passing filter will work fine.

Seriously? This needed to be said??

[Axelwik]

The toxicity of the chemistry required kind of keeps me away.

[maltfalc]

Seriously? This needed to be said??

you recommended not using a technique that will give a similar look to wet plate and instead using a film that won't... so yes.

[Tin Can]

Good thread

I am also interested

[paulbarden]

you recommended not using a technique that will give a similar look to wet plate and instead using a film that won't... so yes.

A simple blue-violet filter isn’t going to achieve the right result either, so….

[maltfalc]

A simple blue-violet filter isn’t going to achieve the right result either, so….it'll get him most of the way there and is a necessary step unless he has access to colour blind film. the rest is just a matter of how he exposes and develops the film.

[jnantz]

it'll get him most of the way there and is a necessary step unless he has access to colour blind film. the rest is just a matter of how he exposes and develops the film.

not exactly, you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. but sometimes it's ok any say "hey this is a pig with lipstick on it"

years ago Starbucks coffee had these images that looked like gum over platinum prints on glass, hanging on the walls of every Starbucks you could find. they weren't gum over platinum on glass but looked pretty cool just the same.
it's too bad people get too hung up on and arguing about how an image is made instead of just making images ...

[maltfalc]

not exactly, you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. but sometimes it's ok any say "hey this is a pig with lipstick on it"

years ago Starbucks coffee had these images that looked like gum over platinum prints on glass, hanging on the walls of every Starbucks you could find. they weren't gum over platinum on glass but looked pretty cool just the same.
it's too bad people get too hung up on and arguing about how an image is made instead of just making images ...

film is not a pig. there's nothing inherently inferior or inauthentic about using modern materials to create a look that was traditionally done some other way.

[nolindan]

I have taken photos on TMX with a UV filter - again looking for a Civil War wet-plate look.

I used a B+W 403 UV Black filter. Focus had to be shifted. I can't remember the EI I found, but "shady 4.0" turned into a ~20 second (?) exposure instead of 1/100; lens was a Nikkor 50mm f1.4.

The results for portraiture were horrid. Every possible skin blemish was revealed in all it's glory, with a few gratuitously added for good measure. I didn't get the 'pale eyes' effect, but it seems only some of the blue-eyed population produce white irises on wet plate. Glasses with UV protection turned from clear to black, as one would expect.

I would try a bog-standard #47 deep blue filter first before diving into the UV -- look out for freckles.

[Vaughn]

...
it's too bad people get too hung up on and arguing about how an image is made instead of just making images ...

No sense argueing about it, but in my own work, how the image was made and the materials used are as much a part of the image as the arrangement of light.

[jnantz]

film is not a pig. there's nothing inherently inferior or inauthentic about using modern materials to create a look that was traditionally done some other way.

not sure where you are from maltfalc but that's an "american" expression meaning "not the real deal" / "not the real McCoy". my comment has nothing to do with the authenticity of film or paper or whatever, but the fact that
it's not Wet Plate ( the real deal, the real McCoy ). While a film or paper based image as a starting point can yield a similar, maybe exact replica of a Wet Plate image, it's not a wet plate image.
not sure why you took offense to my comment, I've been making similar image to what the OP is interested in making for 20 years. Some local guy to me who is a wet plate aficionado saw one of my images and
asked me about my lenses and cameras, collodion recipe, developer/fixer recipe &c and I think he might have been disappointed when I told him it was box camera, a meniscus lens, tmy(400), and sumatranol130 (for both the negative and print) and while I know how to, and have the materials to make WP images, I don't because I have more fun at the moment using film and paper. ( or making cyanotypes and salted silver cyanotypes )
BTW one of my neighbors has a pig, it's great pet. it's a Vietnamese Tea Cup Pig, and weighs just under of 200 lbs, he told me that if it weighed over 200lbs it wouldn't be miniature (I might have the weights off, but it's big).

[paulbarden]

film is not a pig. there's nothing inherently inferior or inauthentic about using modern materials to create a look that was traditionally done some other way.

Well, not necessarily. I've seen plenty of photos made entirely in photoshop that the author promotes as "wet plate", and its disingenuous at best.
I still think that if you want the wet plate collodion look, then learn to make wet plate collodion images. Anything else is just an approximation.