Deardorff Identification Help

[KingPicks]

I picked up a great V11 recently that very certain is a Deardorff Field camera but I'm having a bit of trouble confirming such. The problem is that there is absolutely no Deardorff branding anywhere on the camera. I know that many of the V11 cameras say Deardorff on the lensboard slide, on a badge on the front bed, on the rear film back, or on the bottom base plate. Mine has none of these. It also has a large metal handle on top instead of the usual leather handle. It does however have "V11 B 1" stamped in the metal of the frame under the rear film back. I have heard that there were early models of the V11 that were made for the government, but I can't find any information online to confirm any of this. If anyone here has any info at all on this camera, I would really appreciate you sharing it.
Much Thanks

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[Greg]

I once did come across a similar camera to yours. Also no Deardorff branding or letters or numbers anywhere. Baseplate was pain with the Deardorff lettering. An "expert" on Dearforff cameras told me it was in fact a Deardorff, but one just put together from parts, and the blank baseplate was an after market replacement plate. Price was too good to pass up on so I bought it. That "no branded" camera served me well for years replacing a Burke & James Commercial view camera.

[Tracy Storer]

Looks completely legit to me, with some aftermarket modifications to the rear frame. All the castings look right, as does the finish and everything else about it. They often used older style parts to use them up, so they don't always adhere so rigidly to "such and such style knobs after a certain date" etc. Maybe you can share some photos of the right side and the bed?
Earlier cameras sometimes had a rectangular nameplate, or a decal, or nothing at all saying "Deardorff". Later on, the "top strip" lensboard cleat had the Deardorff name and serial number.

I've seen several late 30's V5s and V8s with dates stamped in the rear turntable casting, but more without than with.

[KingPicks]

Looks completely legit to me, with some aftermarket modifications to the rear frame. All the castings look right, as does the finish and everything else about it. They often used older style parts to use them up, so they don't always adhere so rigidly to "such and such style knobs after a certain date" etc. Maybe you can share some photos of the right side and the bed?
Earlier cameras sometimes had a rectangular nameplate, or a decal, or nothing at all saying "Deardorff". Later on, the "top strip" lensboard cleat had the Deardorff name and serial number.

I've seen several late 30's V5s and V8s with dates stamped in the rear turntable casting, but more without than with.

Here's a few more photos of the sides, top, and bottom.
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[paulbarden]

My 8x0 Deardorff has no branding on it anywhere, but its obviously a Deardorff. I was told that some of the earliest ones had no name plates, etc. on them. I was also told that these very early ones were made using recycled mahogany from local saloons, shut down during prohibition. The person who sold me mine expressed a belief that mine was one of those cameras.

[Tracy Storer]

I shared some of the photos with Ken H. He says pure MC11, Marine Corps camera, including the back latches, he says they did a few cameras like that post WWI, MAYBE war time.
The additional pins on the bed engaged the top of a Crown tripod to prevent the camera rotating.

The "field" of the bed MAY be Marine Plywood with solid Mahogany edges, Ken has never had to take one apart. it is probably a WWII or slightly later camera. None of their other field cameras has front swing yet either, not until 1950.

[domaz]

My 8x0 Deardorff has no branding on it anywhere, but its obviously a Deardorff. I was told that some of the earliest ones had no name plates, etc. on them. I was also told that these very early ones were made using recycled mahogany from local saloons, shut down during prohibition. The person who sold me mine expressed a belief that mine was one of those cameras.

Basically same with 4x5 Baby Deardorff- it has some faded original lettering and the original patina. Most Deardorffs probably were refinished at least once and the lettering was lost.

[Tracy Storer]

I personally don't think "Most Deardorffs probably were refinished at least once", but I do know that the waterslide decals often put on the right side of the cameras frequently degrade and flake off.


Basically same with 4x5 Baby Deardorff- it has some faded original lettering and the original patina. Most Deardorffs probably were refinished at least once and the lettering was lost.

[Tracy Storer]

Most of Kens old website is available on the web archive.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190330122042/http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/

[Mark Crabtree]

It is good to get the scoop on this from Ken. I was really baffled by the bed since it looked original, but like no Deardorff I've ever seen.

[Tracy Storer]

It's funny that this post showed up, it was just a couple weeks ago I was chatting with Ken and he mentioned the plywood. I think it was some traveling salesman who came to visit and showed some samples of the high quality marine plywood and the briefly used it for some beds, IIRC.
In any event I did ask him specifically on this camera and he felt everything was factory original.


It is good to get the scoop on this from Ken. I was really baffled by the bed since it looked original, but like no Deardorff I've ever seen.

[domaz]

I personally don't think "Most Deardorffs probably were refinished at least once", but I do know that the waterslide decals often put on the right side of the cameras frequently degrade and flake off.

That's probably fair. I have heard about people refinishing Deardorffs quite a bit on forums, but not sure how many actually go through with it. I kind of like having the original finish on mine, although I'm not sure cameras are the same as antique furniture when it comes to the "never refinish it" rule.

[Greg Y]

That's probably fair. I have heard about people refinishing Deardorffs quite a bit on forums, but not sure how many actually go through with it. I kind of like having the original finish on mine, although I'm not sure cameras are the same as antique furniture when it comes to the "never refinish it" rule.

I used a no front-shift 1938 5"x7" Deardorff as my main camera for about 15 years. It had been well-used before i got it and the finish had stood up very well over its working life. They're remarkable cameras with a design that had worked from day one. I can't see much reason to refinish one, unless its been subject to water damage or chipped away at with a pocket knife. Like fine vintage ('1920-1945) Martin guitars, they are much more highly valued with original finish and parts.

[KingPicks]

Thanks for linking to his archived info. I recall seeing it some time ago but couldn't find it after searching all over Google.

[Luis-F-S]

It's a Marine V11 without front swings made for the military. I've seen them both with the usual 4 piece triangular bottom, and the bottom shown here. L

[Michael Kadillak]

No question it is a 1940 Military V11. The reason I know is I have camera #3 (serial number was behind the front rise. My camera came with the original one shot back that looked like a roll top desk cover and was designed after each image to take the back into the darkroom to remove the film for processing. I replaced the back with an original V11 back but had to carefully check the film registration to the Fidelity Medical Cassettes I was using and it needed some shims to get it to calibrate properly. What is very unique about this camera is it has the old Infrared bellows that do not sag. The were forced to stop making these bellows after the war because of the toxicity involved. My camera came with a Deardorff emblem and I covered the sides with an aluminum plate to use the standard pins. I got the original box it came from the factory with as well as a 14" Artar. If it was out of the box you could not tell. It looked like new. Enjoy!229248



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[Mark Sampson]

One wonders, as one does, what the Marine Corps wanted an 11x14 field camera for.
And have any of the photographs made with those impressive cameras survived?

[Michael Kadillak]

One wonders, as one does, what the Marine Corps wanted an 11x14 field camera for.
And have any of the photographs made with those impressive cameras survived?

The cameras were not deployed by the military to make photographs from our perspective per se. They were used in combination with infrared film to identify camouflage of enemy positions as well as the heat signature artillery produces for a considerable period of time when they were fired. That is precisely why the cameras have special infrared bellows. As is the case with a lot of things the military does where money is not an issue, they probably realized that the effectiveness of using such a heavy and cumbersome camera in a theatre of war was completely impractical (although that is completely a conjecture on my part from using the camera myself in the field many times). I suspect that they shifted to getting IR film in smaller more portable aerial camera more suited for the required objective. Their loss, our gain.

[KingPicks]

Most of Kens old website is available on the web archive.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190330122042/http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/

So much useful information here. Thanks for listing the link!

[KingPicks]

No question it is a 1940 Military V11. The reason I know is I have camera #3 (serial number was behind the front rise. My camera came with the original one shot back that looked like a roll top desk cover and was designed after each image to take the back into the darkroom to remove the film for processing. I replaced the back with an original V11 back but had to carefully check the film registration to the Fidelity Medical Cassettes I was using and it needed some shims to get it to calibrate properly. What is very unique about this camera is it has the old Infrared bellows that do not sag. The were forced to stop making these bellows after the war because of the toxicity involved. My camera came with a Deardorff emblem and I covered the sides with an aluminum plate to use the standard pins. I got the original box it came from the factory with as well as a 14" Artar. If it was out of the box you could not tell. It looked like new. Enjoy!229248



229243

When you say the serial # was behind the front rise, can you be more specific? I would love to find a number on this one but all I have found is the V11 stamp as depicted in my original photos. That was located on the rear plate underneath the film back.

[Tracy Storer]

I don't think that's a serial #. Many manufacturers stamped batch numbers on sets of parts where fit may have been particular, like sliding front rise panels.


When you say the serial # was behind the front rise, can you be more specific? I would love to find a number on this one but all I have found is the V11 stamp as depicted in my original photos. That was located on the rear plate underneath the film back.

[Michael Kadillak]

When you say the serial # was behind the front rise, can you be more specific? I would love to find a number on this one but all I have found is the V11 stamp as depicted in my original photos. That was located on the rear plate underneath the film back.

When I loosened up the screw on the face plate that allows the lens panel to move up and down I believe I found the number 3 when I pushed the lens panel down. Tracy may very well be correct that it could very well be a batch number. That being said if you look at the same place on your V11 and find another number then the hypothesis might not hold water. Let us know what you find out.

[Michael Kadillak]

I was incorrect in my assessment of where the number was on the V11 Marine. It is actually on the bottom of the lens panel so you have to move the lens panel up to see it. I made a quick pic of the number 3 on my V11.

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Time to take this beast to the field.

[KingPicks]

I was incorrect in my assessment of where the number was on the V11 Marine. It is actually on the bottom of the lens panel so you have to move the lens panel up to see it. I made a quick pic of the number 3 on my V11.

229363

Time to take this beast to the field.

Thanks for the info. I checked under the lens panel and found the number 2 so I guess mine rolled out the door just in front of yours.

[KingPicks]

Here's the serial number I found behind the lens panel.
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[Luis-F-S]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but my V11 has #41 stamped in that location and it's ser #289. Is the number a batch # or is it applicable just to the Marine v11's? No such #'s on my V8's.

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[Michael Kadillak]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but my V11 has #41 stamped in that location and it's ser #289. Is the number a batch # or is it applicable just to the Marine v11's? No such #'s on my V8's.

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Luis. Great to hear from you. I am inclined to believe the Marine V11 imprinted number is legit for one fundamental reason. It is my understanding that the military awarded a contract on a specific lot of cameras to be produced by Deardorff for the war effort (I believe I read somewhere that the contract was for maybe 40 V11's) and there are no other serial numbers that I could find on my Marine V11 camera. The later V11's were open production dictated by the Deardorff and records were maintained for accounting and historical purposes internally hence a formal serial number.

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Huh? The stamp number on the front was merely a number to keep it in order at the factory in production has nothing to do with a serial number. The V11s and all the early cameras had no serial number or External ID at all because Merle Deardorff didn’t think it was worthy of it. He thought the camera was recognizable by its design and its design only. Somewhere on that front is another number three stamped into it that is maybe on the sliding panel. I worked for Deardorff I was their historian I still maintain their historic records of which I have no idea what ones you are talking about. Deardorff used a rather primitive method of keeping track of production while the cameras were being made. Starting with the very first 8 x 10 which took a 5 1/2 x 6” lens board. The number was written in pencil on the bottom side of the top piece of wood of the rear frame where the handle is attached. One through 11 because they made 10 cameras. They did the same with the baby Deardorff but only the first 10 cameras after that there was no serial number on that camera. Then on the V8 that came immediately after the 5 1/2 x 6 lens board version they want to a 6 x 6 Eastman style board with a 1/8 inch thick rabbet. They were 25 these they were numbered one through 26 and the backs were stamped with a metal stamp the fronts were stamped somewhere on the bed it’s stamped but usually it’s underneath the wood separator strip and the rear frame was stamped sometimes underneath one of the corners. Then the next batch came and they were stamped with 1B through 26B. Then another batch with C And finally ending up with a big batch of about 150 cameras that were marked 1D- 151D. I interviewed Merle Deardorff at length about the company in its early days. You had a father Laban, a son Merle two other sons Russell and John Milton. All three finished their cameras differently. Merle put absolutely no decoration on the camera. No nameplate no decal nothing he did not believe the camera required it. It was unique anybody could figure out that it was a Deardorff. And he did not stamp the date in the bottom rear turntable plate either. But his brothers did John Milton stamped it horizontally in other words parallel with the film plane and his brother Russell stamped the date of manufacture vertically which meant it was parallel with the side of the camera. This was on the bottom turntable plate of the rear swing mechanism. It wasn’t until 1950 when the 8 x 10 number 500 which I own had a Serial number added to the lens board retaining strip. I want to add things to make it even more confusing let us not forget the 5000 series 8 by tens. There are some cameras that are out there that have the same serial number. In fact there’s one example that there’s six cameras all with the same number. How did that happen well the company that stamped those Lens board retaining strips with the serial number on them didn’t catch the fact that every time it cycled it wasn’t advancing the number on the rotary die that was coming down hitting the metal. Deardorff not being one too Throw away anything used everything up and made a note of it in the serial number Books. After all it only matters who that camera was sold to when it was new. They knew if it went to an individual or to a dealer and the camera seldom came back for repair. 229991

[TheDeardorffGuy]

Since I retired from this wonderful business when I got sick and disabled. my website went down and it is now at the archive. It mostly works and I thank whoever found it for me

https://web.archive.org/web/20190330122042/http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/

[TheDeardorffGuy]

https://web.archive.org/web/20200325102643/http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/v11/v11.html

[Michael Kadillak]

Well as the old saying goes, you learn something new every day. Bottom line - it is a great camera.

[Tin Can]

Hi Ken

Sorry for your disability.

I wondered where you went, meaning your wonderful website. I visit often.

I became disabled, LF/ULF cameras saved my life, by giving me a reason to get out of bed. I started with LF when I joined here.

I am a big fan of my Deardorff SC11 which keeps it's historical patina, just cleaned up. Turner made 3 exact copies of OE bellows.

It was missing a 11X14 back, Richard Ritter made a 11X14 Bail Back and five 11X14 film holders.

Unfortunately I had to cut down the OE 13 ft pipes, to 7 ft, but still lets it touch my tall ceiling studio and I can stand under it. I love shooting upside down for very low imaging.

Thank you!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51129910512_eb5ff2bf3f_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/f031ZX2648)Deardorff S11 New Bellows (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/f031ZX2648) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50792345597_a08d73b92e_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/wF6uJ81e40)1-1-Deardorff S11 Just set up (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/wF6uJ81e40) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr







https://web.archive.org/web/20200325102643/http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/v11/v11.html

[Duolab123]

This is a great place.
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[KingPicks]

Since I retired from this wonderful business when I got sick and disabled. my website went down and it is now at the archive. It mostly works and I thank whoever found it for me

https://web.archive.org/web/20190330122042/http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/

Do you know if the military V11s were the earliest iteration? I know mine has no swings on the front and it's obvious that a SN is not an option. Just trying to get an idea as to when mine was made in relation to the production of the V11.

[paiyaan8]

I shared some of the photos with Ken H. He says pure MC11, Marine Corps camera, including the back latches, he says they did a few cameras like that post WWI, MAYBE war time.

mobdro 2022 (https://get-mobdro.com/home/)

[Jim Noel]

It looks exactly like my pre-1937 5x7 Deardorff. I bought this used from a reputable dealer in 1940 before so many were making knock-offs.