International Shipping Costs Seeem Outrageous, USPS, UPS, FEDEX, DHL?

[Neal Chaves]

I have sold a few items to buyers outside of the US on eBay with their international shipping program. I have no idea what the buyers paid for shipping but it does not seem to have been unreasonable as I had no complaints. Now when I try to arrange for shipping directly for a buyer on this forum from the UK I am astounded at the price quoted. Does anyone have a workaround for this? It is a severe restriction of trade, limiting cost-effective shipment to only the most expensive items.

[domaz]

Have you tried First Class International USPS (https://www.usps.com/international/first-class-package-international-service.htm)? There is a weight and size limit on that but it's the cheapest option I know. It is what it is, prices have been moving steadily upward on International shipping since well forever..

[Jon Shiu]

What is the weight and size of the package?

[Neal Chaves]

The box is 12X6X14 inches and 6 lbs. USPS is $120 with the maximum insurance of $600. I would like to insure for $1,000. Tracking is provided but no signature upon delivery confirmation. This is not acceptable to the buyer.

FEDEX, UPS and DHL are all nearly $300 with the proper insurance.

[Neal Chaves]

I asked my nearby PacMail operator, a DHL shipper, about it. I could have a similar box shipped to me from a Japanese dealer by DHL, fully insured, tracked and requiring my signature for about $100. He said that there are special corporate accounts that get much lower rates.

I ordered a print washer from UK and the DHL shipping the dealer added was quite reasonable. It was defective and the dealer refunded my payment and shipping and sent DHL to pick it up at my house. I know that if I tried to ship it DHL to UK it would cost much more than $300.

[Jon Shiu]

The box is 12X6X14 inches and 6 lbs. USPS is $120 with the maximum insurance of $600. I would like to insure for $1,000. Tracking is provided but no signature upon delivery confirmation. This is not acceptable to the buyer.

FEDEX, UPS and DHL are all nearly $300 with the proper insurance.

Okay, I looked it up. Cheapest would be UPS Expedited 57.87 plus 13.50 for Shipcover insurance from a site called Pirateship.com. Which by the way has deep discounts on domestic UPS and USPS also.
229031

I use this pirateship service all the time and there is even a real cheap service called simple export rate that's cheaper than first class international for packages under 4 lbs.

[Daniel Stone]

Pirate Ship is great, it's allowed me to ship to countries that USPS does not service during the past year's drudgery. Their shipping partners tend to be commercial air freight to ferry things, and so far, it's been a tremendous way to keep customers satisfied not having to wait until USPS gets its head out of its bum ;)

I have negotiated rates with UPS, which can save a ton on int'l shipping, but DHL just doubled their rates, essentially, so I no longer offer them.

[Tin Can]

Insurance is baloney

[r.e.]

Insurance is baloney

So when I purchased a not cheap Schneider-Kreuznach Super-Symmar XL f/5.6 150mm lens from a vendor in Germany in December, and had it shipped to me in New York, I shouldn't have bothered to insure it. Okey doke :)

Just checked what it cost to ship. The lens weighs 740g/26oz and was extremely well packed in its original box inside another box. It wasn't a light package. For standard shipping with insurance, DHL wanted US$89. Priority shipping, which the vendor and I opted for after he spoke with DHL, was $107. Given that DHL was hired by the German vendor, I imagine that that amount included German VAT, which I believe is 19%.

[sharktooth]

Never EVER use UPS for shipments to Canada (or probably anywhere else in the world). UPS charges outrageous brokerage fees which are never clearly defined in advance. The "brokerage" fee is the fee that they charge to do the customs paperwork. Your item(s) will be held hostage until the fee is paid. The problem with UPS is that the fee is some percentage of the sale amount, and is not included in the original shipping cost. You only find out the bad news when your item is waiting for delivery.

Fedex also charges a brokerage fee, but it's called something different. Fedex uses a flat rate of about $10, so be prepared to cover that. They used to drop that fee if the item was shipped expedited overnight air, but I don't know if that's still the case.

USPS is the best option for shipping to Canada. The US and Canadian governments have bilateral agreements for cross border postal shipments, and there is no brokerage fee. You still have to pay Canadian taxes and duty where applicable, but that's true for any shipment through any carrier.

I don't have any direct experience with DHL.

With the eBay international shipping program, the full cost of shipping is shown on the eBay posting. The costs are still enormous, but at least you know what they're going to be before you bid. People are less likely to complain, since they've already been fully informed about the cost beforehand. I'm sure that's why eBay introduced that system, since there were too many unknowns about international shipping cost before they introduced that system.

Here is the breakdown of international shipping cost
1) Shipment cost through carrier
2) Brokerage fee. Charged by carrier or brokerage company to import goods into the destination country. Customs brokers will handle the importation paperwork and may also handle the paperwork for the taxes and duty
3) Taxes. Tax to be paid on goods being imported into the destination country
4) Duty. Depending on the type of goods being imported, there may be a duty applied to those goods.

[Bernice Loui]

Most recent package (250x250x180mm, about 5Kg) from Germany via DHL economy no insurance cost about $70 USD. Deliver time, about three weeks.

Most recent package (180x180x100mm, 2Kg) from Japan via Fed Ex air no insurance, three working days to deliver. Cost $50 USD.

Insurance or not, shippers have a tendency to bust packages. Better to pack the item to account for this abuse or destruction proof the item much as reasonable as Murphy will always have it's way.

USPS domestic rates including stamps are going up. Cost of fuel and more all figure into this.

Another reality to consider, inflation:
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/


Bernice

[Tin Can]

I prefer USPS and have shipped worldwide, except Australia

Insurance is a joke with all

I pack real well

[xkaes]

I too have seen international shipping costs to go through the roof -- like 50% -- in the last month (I'm in the USA). There are a few ways to deal with it, but not available for all shipments.

[Bob Salomon]

So when I purchased a not cheap Schneider-Kreuznach Super-Symmar XL f/5.6 150mm lens from a vendor in Germany in December, and had it shipped to me in New York, I shouldn't have bothered to insure it. Okey doke :)

Just checked what it cost to ship. The lens weighs 740g/26oz and was extremely well packed in its original box inside another box. It wasn't a light package. For standard shipping with insurance, DHL wanted US$89. Priority shipping, which the vendor and I opted for after he spoke with DHL, was $107. Given that DHL was hired by the German vendor, I imagine that that amount included German VAT, which I believe is 19%.

If he was shipping it to North America he would not pay VAT. Neither would you.

[r.e.]

If he was shipping it to North America he would not pay VAT.

Good to know.

[Bernice Loui]

Recently verified, order direct from Berlebach, Germany, no VAT. shipping via DHL.
Think this applies to other EU nations with a similar VAT tax like UK.

Bernice





If he was shipping it to North America he would not pay VAT. Neither would you.

[Neal Chaves]

What a great response from people with real knowledge of the shipping business. Many thanks.

[xkaes]

I've recently had to take GERMANY off my ETSY list -- not because of shipping costs. Germany has a new waste reduction program -- packaging restrictions, which I think is a great idea. But the forms and hoops the seller must fill out and jump through are ridiculous -- at least for small time sellers. I'll just tell German customers to send me payment directly through PAYPAL.

[Fred L]

Hard agree on UPS. If they're the only option a seller is offering, I walk unless it's something I REALLY REALLY want/need. My last order from Bostick was around $500 USD and UPS dinged me for around $100, or roughly 20%. For Canadians buying from Bostick and Sullivan, they can ship USPS, but you need to ask. The cost is close to UPS, maybe slightly more, but there won't be ridiculous brokerage fees, just the usual duties.

Also this is why Canuckleheads love to shop from B&H (presuming they have what we need), hit the magic $99 threshold and shipping is free.

My preferred shippers from the US are USPS, Fed Ex, then DHL.

[Vaidotas]

Here is funny story.
I’m from EU.
Bought recently discussed Voss gelatine filter holder from US on ebay for 12,-
USPS shipping, VAT on top of purchase and shipping sum and final expense is 69,-
Hopefully I’m in no need for anything from far away for LF.
Another quirk for EU buyers - it seems there is no agreement between EU and GB on VAT exange, ebay started collecting VAT on purchases from GB, but my country customs has no idea about that.

[Lachlan 717]

Have the Buyer set up a virtual mail box. You ship to a US address (virtual) and they then send it to the OS address. These companies have access to very cheap (relative) postage.

Been doing this for years to Australia (the only country out of 205 the Tin Can hasn’t sent to).

[Vaidotas]

It works. On Amazon or other bigger vendors or at some degree with private sellers (there is a lot of examples of scamming using proxy address).
But it won’t work on ebay as I know.

[Tin Can]

………lol


have the buyer set up a virtual mail box. You ship to a us address (virtual) and they then send it to the os address. These companies have access to very cheap (relative) postage.

Been doing this for years to australia (the only country out of 205 the tin can hasn’t sent to).

[jnantz]

shipping is never inexpensive, even before fuel prices went up.
sometimes I send something and the shipping and VAT is 2x the cost of the item and then it's stuck in customs for 3 weeks. gotta love it ..
years ago I did work for a record company and shipped them their box of merch and cd of images in the same shipping container shipped to me
insured priority mail about 400 miles away, it got waylaid, and took 6 months and arrived a mess and 1/2, insurance paid them for everything that was lost ..

oh, if people in the states paid the same amount for gaz as their European friends they'd understand why shipping is so expensive ..

[r.e.]

Another quirk for EU buyers - it seems there is no agreement between EU and GB on VAT exange, ebay started collecting VAT on purchases from GB, but my country customs has no idea about that.

It's now common for non-U.S. on-line retailers to use U.S.-based e-commerce providers that charge U.S. customers sales tax even though no sales tax is payable. So far, I've had this happen with vendors of downloadable products (music sample libraries that can cost hundreds of dollars) in Germany, Italy and the U.K. It would be interesting to know where this money is going, because I don't believe that it's payable to any level of government in the U.S.

[r.e.]

if people in the states paid the same amount for gaz as their European friends they'd understand why shipping is so expensive ..

If Americans weren't addicted to cheap gas, they'd also have better roads :)

[nitroplait]

Another quirk for EU buyers - it seems there is no agreement between EU and GB on VAT exange, ebay started collecting VAT on purchases from GB, but my country customs has no idea about that.

eBay collects VAT for all purchases made from an EU country from an country outside EU.

The eBay seller must use an eBay provided IOSS number and print it on the shipping label. The IOSS number MUST be on the label from the sender, and if it is, you will not have to pay Customs handling and VAT in the receiving EU country.

However, if the eBay seller didn't put the IOSS number on the shipping label, you WILL have to pay VAT again along with whatever Customs Handling Fee your country requires.
You cannot retroactively convince your customs office that you have already paid VAT, because the rule is that the IOSS number must follow the label from the origin.

The error is with the eBay seller which didn't read or understand the eBay terms of service (all they have to do is to put a IOSS number visibly on the shipping label).

In those cases where the seller is ignorant, you will get your prepaid VAT back from eBay if you complain, but not the Customs handling fee which voids the whole idea of this system - which is very good IMO if only eBay sellers reads the terms of service when exporting to the EU - we as buyer receives the items quicker and don't have to pay the often exorbitant Custom Clearance fees.

In other words, if you as EU buyer, buys something from outside EU on eBay, make sure your seller understand what an IOSS number is and make sure they put it on the shipping label.
If the seller makes mistakes, give them negative feedback - eBay is their chosen platform and if they sell to EU they should know the rules of their chosen platform.

[Jody_S]

Insurance is a joke with all


I can't speak for USPS's insurance, but Canada Post insurance only covers loss, not breakage. And they won't sell you insurance for any country you might need it, ie anywhere parcels regularly get stolen. So if they drive a truck over your parcel and deliver you a pancake instead of a box, don't even think about collecting the insurance. So I have to agree, the insurance is a scam. There is a free $100 insurance included with all but the basic shipping service, I think I've collected it once in almost 25 years of selling online, when tracking for a parcel I shipped 'surface' showed it hadn't moved in 2 months.

[Michael R]

Thanks for confirming this. I suspected as much but was always too lazy to read the fine print.


I can't speak for USPS's insurance, but Canada Post insurance only covers loss, not breakage. And they won't sell you insurance for any country you might need it, ie anywhere parcels regularly get stolen. So if they drive a truck over your parcel and deliver you a pancake instead of a box, don't even think about collecting the insurance. So I have to agree, the insurance is a scam. There is a free $100 insurance included with all but the basic shipping service, I think I've collected it once in almost 25 years of selling online, when tracking for a parcel I shipped 'surface' showed it hadn't moved in 2 months.

[Vaidotas]

eBay collects VAT for all purchases made from an EU country from an country outside EU.

The eBay seller must use an eBay provided IOSS number and print it on the shipping label. The IOSS number MUST be on the label from the sender, and if it is, you will not have to pay Customs handling and VAT in the receiving EU country.

However, if the eBay seller didn't put the IOSS number on the shipping label, you WILL have to pay VAT again along with whatever Customs Handling Fee your country requires.
You cannot retroactively convince your customs office that you have already paid VAT, because the rule is that the IOSS number must follow the label from the origin.

The error is with the eBay seller which didn't read or understand the eBay terms of service (all they have to do is to put a IOSS number visibly on the shipping label).

In those cases where the seller is ignorant, you will get your prepaid VAT back from eBay if you complain, but not the Customs handling fee which voids the whole idea of this system - which is very good IMO if only eBay sellers reads the terms of service when exporting to the EU - we as buyer receives the items quicker and don't have to pay the often exorbitant Custom Clearance fees.

In other words, if you as EU buyer, buys something from outside EU on eBay, make sure your seller understand what an IOSS number is and make sure they put it on the shipping label.
If the seller makes mistakes, give them negative feedback - eBay is their chosen platform and if they sell to EU they should know the rules of their chosen platform.

Thanks a lot for this usefull info and clarofication.

[gypsydog]

If Americans weren't addicted to cheap gas, they'd also have better roads :)

Not so, we would have even wealthier politicians and crappy roads!

[SteveInNZ]

The catch with insurance is that it's a contract with the sender. If it gets lost or damaged, the sender has to make the claim. Since they've been paid and sent the goods, there's no inclination for them to pursue it in a situation like eBay where there is no further interaction. That's one reason I prefer to buy from a forum like this. It's still a transaction but both parties are looking for a good outcome.

One thing that might change the cost of the OP's package is if it will go into a smaller package. It might weigh 6lb but the volumetric weight (based on the dimensions) is 9lb. You're charged on the greater of the two so you have added 50% to the cost.

I also agree on the use of a reshipping service. New Zealand, Australia and I think UK, have such a service run by the government postal service. I'm sure other countries do too. You'd ship to a US address with local rates and then the customer is responsible for it from there so the address will be correct and any taxes, etc are calculated correctly. Since USPS dropped it's standard postage to many countries, this tends to be the cheapest option in my experience. The downside is that it can add a couple of weeks to the total time.

Steve.

[DonJ]

The catch with insurance is that it's a contract with the sender. If it gets lost or damaged, the sender has to make the claim. Since they've been paid and sent the goods, there's no inclination for them to pursue it in a situation like eBay where there is no further interaction. That's one reason I prefer to buy from a forum like this. It's still a transaction but both parties are looking for a good outcome.

One thing that might change the cost of the OP's package is if it will go into a smaller package. It might weigh 6lb but the volumetric weight (based on the dimensions) is 9lb. You're charged on the greater of the two so you have added 50% to the cost.

I also agree on the use of a reshipping service. New Zealand, Australia and I think UK, have such a service run by the government postal service. I'm sure other countries do too. You'd ship to a US address with local rates and then the customer is responsible for it from there so the address will be correct and any taxes, etc are calculated correctly. Since USPS dropped it's standard postage to many countries, this tends to be the cheapest option in my experience. The downside is that it can add a couple of weeks to the total time.

Steve.

An eBay buyer can file a “not received” or “not as described” case and receive a full refund. Why do you think there’s “no further interaction”?

[Neal Chaves]

Thank you so much guys for the referral to Pirate Ship. The box went out to UK last night UPS express delivery, fully tracked and insured with adult delivery signature required. The cost was $98 as opposed to the $250 - $335 I was being quoted by the major carriers.

[steve_p]

I ordered a Toyo 45G plus a lot of accessories in a metal box from outside the UK, but opted for sea shipping from Japan to the UK. Price was fantastic (12GBP), but the time it has taken left a bit to be desired. It was handed in to the carrier on 25/5/2022 and arrived in the UK a few days ago. Still, I'm happy, it's not the first time that I've had to wait months for LF gear

[Tin Can]

I have a camera shipping from Minsk

It is moving

I will report shipping time when it arrives at my door

[r.e.]

I've had consistently good service from national mail carriers at reasonable cost. Not cheap, but certainly not "outrageous". With respect to service, in the last year three deliveries via the Royal Mail/USPS from England to New York were delivered in 3 to 4 days.

As I write this, a shipment that @Ari, who is FLM's distributor in North America, sent from Canada to New York four days ago is "Out for Delivery": https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?169650-Portable-Solution-to-Make-Overhead-(90%B0)-Photographs&p=1653160&viewfull=1#post1653160

In my experience, packages from Canada often take take 3 days, occasionally 4. In this case, the package cleared US Customs two days ago, and for some reason, presumably mail volume, spent the whole of yesterday sitting in USPS's Brooklyn sorting facility. Regardless, I don't have a problem with 4 days for international delivery.

[pjd]

I ordered a Toyo 45G plus a lot of accessories in a metal box from outside the UK, but opted for sea shipping from Japan to the UK. Price was fantastic (12GBP), but the time it has taken left a bit to be desired. It was handed in to the carrier on 25/5/2022 and arrived in the UK a few days ago. Still, I'm happy, it's not the first time that I've had to wait months for LF gear

Sea shipping prices sound great...how did you arrange this? Was this from eBay, Yahoo, a website, something else?

[linhofbiker]

Sea shipping prices sound great...how did you arrange this? Was this from eBay, Yahoo, a website, something else?

I flew to the UK from Florida to pick up some parts for my off-road racer. I used air miles so it only cost about $200 to fly. While there I visited family. Coming back I paid the airlines an excess baggage fee of about $80 for a bunch of heavy parts. I declare the value of about $1200 to the US customs and was told it was not worth their time to charge me duty, so waived my thru. For less than the cost of shipping heavy items I got a round trip to the UK. This was in 2019, so things may have changed.

[Tin Can]

I forgot to post!

2 months Minsk to St Louis


I have a camera shipping from Minsk

It is moving

I will report shipping time when it arrives at my door

[pjd]

I flew to the UK from Florida to pick up some parts for my off-road racer. I used air miles so it only cost about $200 to fly. While there I visited family. Coming back I paid the airlines an excess baggage fee of about $80 for a bunch of heavy parts. I declare the value of about $1200 to the US customs and was told it was not worth their time to charge me duty, so waived my thru. For less than the cost of shipping heavy items I got a round trip to the UK. This was in 2019, so things may have changed.

Roughly how heavy / bulky were the parts? I want to bring a Durst Laborator 1000 from Wales to Seoul, but...each time I'm in the attic looking at the enlarger I feel like I need about a week to fit it in a crate, and then I've no idea how much I'd get charged, and there are always about 10 other things to sort out. You'd think I should be able to find a large format enlarger in Korea, but...no.

2 months from Minsk to the US sounds reasonable to me.

[Vaidotas]

Roughly how heavy / bulky were the parts?
2 months from Minsk to the US sounds reasonable to me.

It sounds as from Pyongyang to Seoul - horrible and unacceptable.

[Tin Can]

I shipped a really nice Calumet C1 from Illinois to Seoul USPS in extreme packing

No damage, shipping was about $150, 1 month

At that time it was the only 8X10 in Korea, a member here used it for teaching


Roughly how heavy / bulky were the parts? I want to bring a Durst Laborator 1000 from Wales to Seoul, but...each time I'm in the attic looking at the enlarger I feel like I need about a week to fit it in a crate, and then I've no idea how much I'd get charged, and there are always about 10 other things to sort out. You'd think I should be able to find a large format enlarger in Korea, but...no.

2 months from Minsk to the US sounds reasonable to me.

[linhofbiker]

Roughly how heavy / bulky were the parts? I want to bring a Durst Laborator 1000 from Wales to Seoul, but...each time I'm in the attic looking at the enlarger I feel like I need about a week to fit it in a crate, and then I've no idea how much I'd get charged, and there are always about 10 other things to sort out. You'd think I should be able to find a large format enlarger in Korea, but...no.

2 months from Minsk to the US sounds reasonable to me.

The parts were heavy and had to be split up so as to not exceed the 20 kilo limit per bag. I am not sure about the weight limit but it was spread equally across 2 checked bags one of which was charge excess baggage. I put my clothes etc in a carry-on bag.

[Willie]

Why add VAT to shipping costs - as was quoted when trying to buy two small screws from a maker in Germany. Screws were less than 1/2 inch long, small and light. Original for a musical instrument - coated to match the sax. Cost was less than $1.25 US - when converted from Euros.

Shipping was quoted a hair shy of $60 and then VAT of almost $10. For two screws that cost $1.25?

I'll make do with two screws that don't match the color of the sax.

[steve_p]

When I bought my TOYO 4X5G plus accessories all in a metal case last year, I opted for shipping by sea from Japan to UK. The package took 2.5 months to get here, but the shipping cost was 12GBP (roughly 10$). I was quite happy to wait.

[jnantz]

I prefer USPS and have shipped worldwide, except Australia

Insurance is a joke with all

I pack real well
Nope no joke ..

the record company got paid in full for what I got for insurance. I paid for $2,000 insurance. After a certain amount of time (3 weeks? I can't remember) the box was lost the RC had to initiate a "trace" to search for the package, the PO couldn't find it and the RC was paid in full. no clue how that is a joke, and all the carriers are like that. certain amount of time passes, trace, ( to make sure it's not fraud) pay the insurance claim. there are things that can not be insured, original 1 of a kind prints and negatives. no one will insure those, so one has to send them certified registered mail, and they are under lock and key and go through a different system to be delivered where everyone who touches the item has to sign a register so there is a chain of custody. I've had no problems with that service ..

[MichaelGJ47]

I have almost stopped completely buying from the US because of UPS .they seem to be the most expensive anywhere.The costs are often far more than the product with UPS.I find it faster and a fraction of the cost to buy from the UK or Japan.Some products like Stearman developing tanks you don’t have a choice but if it is available anywhere else then that is where I go.

[Lachlan 717]

I have almost stopped completely buying from the US because of UPS .they seem to be the most expensive anywhere.The costs are often far more than the product with UPS.I find it faster and a fraction of the cost to buy from the UK or Japan.Some products like Stearman developing tanks you don’t have a choice but if it is available anywhere else then that is where I go.

Look at virtual post boxes.

[jnantz]

another thing to keep in mind, aside from the cost of shipping, certain countries in the EU are charging people $$ to receive packages sent from the states. im not sure what that is about but we were going to be charged 50$ to ship ( which im accustomed to ) but the receiver ( en France ) was going to have to pay 50$ to receive it, we opted to not ship.

[Tin Can]

I stopped all outbound shipping

However the other day USPS regular mail person had left a box behind as it required a Sig

Then the driver went to PO and back in under 3 minutes

USPS is very important and a very good job in the middle of nowhere

However the current Master bought new gas hogs instead of smaller

[Ulophot]

A note of caution from a recent experience for what it's worth:

I sent a print to Germany, to an office. Tracking finally said that an attempt had been made to deliver it and then something about it being in the hands of originating service. At the time delivery was allegedly attempted, people were in the office. No note was left by the mail service, as is always the practice.

Since Germany's post office system has been privatized, my friend there had no recourse, without a note indicating that it could be picked up at one of the kiosks sprinkled about the city, by no means necessarily the nearest one in any case. USPS has no tracking ability once the package is in custody of the post service there, and the post there has no tacking of the U.S. barcode, apparently.

I mailed it from the post office first class on Aug. 5. I am still waiting for its return. Since it was for a friend's major-year birthday, I sent a copy with a friend on an airplane who happened to be going of the occasion.

This was an anomaly, but my friend said that the post service has become awful but not nearly as bad as the train system...

[PatrickMarq]

A note of caution from a recent experience for what it's worth:

I sent a print to Germany, to an office. Tracking finally said that an attempt had been made to deliver it and then something about it being in the hands of originating service. At the time delivery was allegedly attempted, people were in the office. No note was left by the mail service, as is always the practice.

Since Germany's post office system has been privatized, my friend there had no recourse, without a note indicating that it could be picked up at one of the kiosks sprinkled about the city, by no means necessarily the nearest one in any case. USPS has no tracking ability once the package is in custody of the post service there, and the post there has no tacking of the U.S. barcode, apparently.

I mailed it from the post office first class on Aug. 5. I am still waiting for its return. Since it was for a friend's major-year birthday, I sent a copy with a friend on an airplane who happened to be going of the occasion.

This was an anomaly, but my friend said that the post service has become awful but not nearly as bad as the train system...

Philip,

Yes it’s quite horrible. From what I can see here in Belgium the people who drive for those services are mostly selfemployed.
Read, not paid enough and on a tight schedule. So on a friday good luck for you: you can pick it up in some strange shop, probably owned by some relative.
Our you find a note saying you where not at home, while waiting ‘in the door’ the whole day :-)

[notorius]

Philip,

Yes it’s quite horrible. From what I can see here in Belgium the people who drive for those services are mostly selfemployed.
Read, not paid enough and on a tight schedule. So on a friday good luck for you: you can pick it up in some strange shop, probably owned by some relative.
Our you find a note saying you where not at home, while waiting ‘in the door’ the whole day :-)

Hmm, sounds like you are describing post service here in Czech Republic. The last sentence especially... :-)

[Michael Jones]

Nope no joke ..

the record company got paid in full for what I got for insurance. I paid for $2,000 insurance. After a certain amount of time (3 weeks? I can't remember) the box was lost the RC had to initiate a "trace" to search for the package, the PO couldn't find it and the RC was paid in full. no clue how that is a joke, and all the carriers are like that. certain amount of time passes, trace, ( to make sure it's not fraud) pay the insurance claim. there are things that can not be insured, original 1 of a kind prints and negatives. no one will insure those, so one has to send them certified registered mail, and they are under lock and key and go through a different system to be delivered where everyone who touches the item has to sign a register so there is a chain of custody. I've had no problems with that service ..

I’ve had both USPS and UPS lose high end audio equipment I sold. Both paid the value of the equipment after a brief, usually 3-4 weeks, investigation. What *&@#+ would ship a $5000 piece of equipment uninsured so they could refund the buyer after loss & have nothing at the end of the transaction? Foolish is the kindest description of such a thought process.

Don’t insure what you can afford to lose. Otherwise let the carrier assume the risk of loss.