What film to use for first test shots

[Mitchellsig]

Hi I am new to the group and to large format (4x5). I have a Calumet 401 with a 135mm lens. My question is what film to use? I am thinking Frankenstein 200. Does anyone have advice ?

[Alan9940]

IMO, Arista.EDU films are a cost effective way to begin your journey.

[r.e.]

IMO, Arista.EDU films are a cost effective way to begin your journey.

The Frankenstein 200 that he's talking about, at US$30 for 25 sheets, is 25% cheaper than Arista. Mat Marrash's video... He's very keen on the film. Marrash recommends that it not be processed in trays, but a B&H customer review says that the film "develops very easily in a tray".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wek1qCq1G0

[Corran]

The cheapest thing you can get your hands on. Which looks like you found, though I had never heard of that film prior to now.

That said you may be able to find cheaper old-stock film from members of this community or other film photographers...if you happen to know any shooting LF. Or possibly x-ray...if you don't mind a bit of experimenting.

If you are comfortable shooting/developing film and just want to jump in though, get your "regular" film and try it.

[PatrickMarq]

What about Fomapan, here a box of 50 sheets costs about 40€, and a lot of members use this.

[koraks]

What about Fomapan, here a box of 50 sheets costs about 40€, and a lot of members use this.

Over in the US Arista.EDU is the same thing, rebranded, and cheaper. In the US it doesn't make much sense to look specifically for Fomapan although I think you can get it.

When getting into 4x5 one of the first film stocks I used was Fomapan 100. Since then I've used several others, but I still shoot most of my 4x5 on Fomapan 100. It's nice to play with and easy to process.

[Tin Can]

If it is a portrait, I now shoot only Kodak or Ilford

If shooting for fun, 2X X-Ray

[Willie]

Use the film you plan on using for your "serious work".

It will help you getting used to how it handles and help you hone your skills as you do so with the benefit of quality should you come up with some excellent compositions while learning.

Might as well get into the flow of it using good materials. That will help with your mental preparation as you photograph.

[popdoc]

If you’re just getting started, it can be far less expensive, and even a bit more fun, to make paper negatives!

Find a box of paper on the Internet, or some that you may have lying around if you already have a darkroom, and try that. Just contact print and you quickly have an answer as to how well you’re doing with framing, manipulating the lens to film plane relationships, focusing, etc.

All that, and you’re artsy too!

For a 4 x 5 film holder, cut the printing paper to 3 7/8 x 4 7/8.

If you’re shooting outside in good light, use a light yellow filter and an ASA/ISO of 6 to start.

Standard photo paper development at standard dilution to start as well.

Easy peasy!

Have a blast, and welcome!

Please, post your results!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[esearing]

Are you testing lenses/composition being new to LF , or Chemistry?

for testing chemistry (developers) you want to use the film you will likely use forever. I alternate between FP4 and Delta100 with Pyrocat-M.

I forget who said "your first 10000 shots are your worst" - but I'll add, your first 100 shots on a LF camera will teach you more than 100 rolls.

[Tin Can]

I had a lot of problems just loading film into holders correctly

then loading the film to process in tiny plastic boxes

bellows factors

and more

most here as usual want all beginners to use oodles of expensive film

for their benefit

you WILL waste a lot of film learning

I often set up trays with chem

shoot inside and process within moments

just testing...

[Ulophot]

esearing, I believe it was Henry Cartier-Bresson.

[John Layton]

Cheap is fine for practicing procedures/processes, but for true learning to happen one needs to know that their materials are behaving with consistency, so that any intentional alterations to the process can be meaningful.

Not saying that cheap cannot equal consistent...but just be careful!

[Andrew O'Neill]

I would pick a film that has been around for a long time, from a reputable manufacturer. One that will continue on into the future. This Frankenstein 200 would be fun to try out, but no guarantees it'll be around very long. Maybe you could try some, and if you like it, buy a whack of it and keep in the freezer. It's pretty darn cheap!

[r.e.]

I'd suggest that Mitchell buy a $30 box of Frankenstein 200. Of the 25 sheets, expose a couple to light and use them to practice loading his film holder(s). Turn the steps for making an exposure into a checklist and put the checklist on his phone or print a couple of copies. If he's going to process the film himself, also make a checklist for developing. Don't sweat mistakes. Happens to everybody and the film is only $1.20 a sheet. Do some 1-stop bracketing just to see what the impact is. At 23 exposures, decide whether to stick with Frankenstein or purchase a film stock that interests him longer term. I think that the time to move to a different film is when he sees concretely how sensitive film is to exposure and development and wants to learn how to control those factors with a predictable, quality stock. Unlike Frankenstein, there's also a wealth of advice on using Ilford and Kodak stocks that will help answer questions.

[Bernice Loui]

Lowest sheet film available as the process of learning how to LF (if this is the case) will involve plenty of Oooopsiiees...

From learning how to load sheet film,

~light leaking film holders, from wore out flap to !! dark slide area and more.
~loading the sheet of emulsion side away from the lens.
~Loading more than one sheet of film per side of the film holder.
~Loading the sheet of film with the interleaving paper causing ?? image on the sheet of film.

Processing the film.. how best to do this.

Getting to know the view camera and all it's controls, what they do..
~Setting up the camera on a tripod.
~Focusing/composing the image on the upside down_backwards on the ground glass.

then sorting out this view camera movement puzzle (one of THE most important aspects and reasons to use a view camera), this section from the Linhof LF book can help: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?164126-Importance-of-camera-movements-gt-Alan-amp-others-long-amp-Linhof

Getting comfy with the view camera is one significant part of learning how to LF.

Figuring out the needed exposure time/lens aperture for the film image to be recorded which includes:

~Setting the shutter speed, winding up the shutter before exposure.
~Setting the lens aperture as needed before making the exposure (one of the most common Ooopsiiees).
~Pulling the dark slide then putting the dark slide back in the same side causing a multi exposure on the next image to be made..


And there will be more.. Figure the first box of film as a steep learning how to LF process or why using the lowest cost film initially is a very reasonable choice. Once further up on the how to LF learning curve and the beginnings of where ya wanna to go with this LF image making stuff is the time to take on proper high quality film with the goals of expressive/creative image making.


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

I'm personally quite glad that I started out with high quality films instead, that I planned to stick with. Some of my very first b&w shots turned out to be "beginner's luck" classics which have been reprinted numerous times over the years. Lots of misfires early on of course. But ya never know. It's hard to be a competent lumberjack if you scrimp in investment early and try to learn cutting down trees with a fingernail file. I believe in learning with the actual tools and ingredients you'll need in the long run; otherwise, a lot simply has to be re-learned or re-invested, or you might get discouraged in route.

Another reason is that a lot of my earliest view camera and sheet film work was done in rugged remote terrain hard to get into again; and the lighting is never quite the same anyway. Some things you only get one crack at. It would have been counterproductive, given all that effort, to gamble with so-so film. But at least I did already know how to tray develop b&w sheet film, since I used it for color film contrast masking at least a decade before getting into b&w photog per se. Likewise with view camera technique; I had already learned that for sake of color film. But even in that case, many of my very early color shots were truly keepers.

Just dive in. Sure, there will be plenty of mishaps to the learning curve. But ya gotta start somewhere. To practice loading and unloading holders in the dark, you only need a single piece of film, even voided film.

[jeannicolas]

Was asking myself the very same question recently and ended up getting a box of Frankenstein 200, now, granted, I don't have much to compare it to, other than a (very) expired box of Tri-X, but here's a sample shot I took with the Frankenstein: https://i.imgur.com/FYcYSPd.jpg

It was developed in HC-110, dilution B, for about 4 and a half minutes in homemade BTZS tubes. It ended up being way sharper than I expected, overall, I'm happy with my test shots so far! Enough that I was considering ordering a couple more boxes of it considering the price. It's sold out on FPP's website so not sure how many boxes B&H still has

[Andrew O'Neill]

Anyone know who is making this stuff? I want to say it's just a rebranding, but what other ISO 200 B/W films are out there? I'd be tempted to buy a box if it were available in 8x10. Anyway, the cheapest stuff to learn LF basics on is single-sided XRAY film.

[jeannicolas]

Anyone know who is making this stuff? I want to say it's just a rebranding, but what other ISO 200 B/W films are out there? I'd be tempted to buy a box if it were available in 8x10. Anyway, the cheapest stuff to learn LF basics on is single-sided XRAY film.

I was wondering the same thing, the only bit of info I was able to find was from here: https://randomphoto.blogspot.com/2021/11/fpp-frankenstein-200-film.html?m=1

It doesn't say much, but my guess is it is a rebranding... relevant excerpt:


I'm not going to go and tell you what these films actually are -- that sort of spoils the fun - but if you are familiar with their line of film stocks, you can probably figure it out. Besides, isn't it great when someone asks what you are shooting with and you can say "Frankenstein 200?"

Edit: Found a comment on their facebook page saying it was actually Cine 16 motion picture film.

[LabRat]

Anyone know who is making this stuff? I want to say it's just a rebranding, but what other ISO 200 B/W films are out there? I'd be tempted to buy a box if it were available in 8x10. Anyway, the cheapest stuff to learn LF basics on is single-sided XRAY film.

The code notch looks a lot like the Foma/Arista EDU, but ????

Steve K

[jeannicolas]

For anyone interested; I contacted them (FPP) about the availability of Frankenstein 200, and they told me that:

1. It would be restocked in August, so it's not going away (but in the meantime, B&H still has some)
2. Their FPP Mummy iso 400 film is coming out in 4x5 and 8x10 format this fall

[r.e.]

Film Photography Project is not being secretive about the film. It says right on their website that it's "formulated from our Cine16 BW Motion Picture Film emulsion". See the screen capture below. I haven't looked into the background of their Cine16 film.

228862

[woodlandSerenade]

I believe that Frankenstein is the same as Foma / Arista 200. The box looks identical to the Foma boxes I've seen, and the given development times are very close.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Looking forward to see what they will charge for Mummy 400 8x10.

[h2oman]

~loading the sheet of emulsion side away from the lens.
~Loading more than one sheet of film per side of the film holder.


Who you talkin' 'bout? :cool:

[woodlandSerenade]

Looking forward to see what they will charge for Mummy 400 8x10.

Hopefully less than the going rate for Foma 400 ;)

[LabRat]

I hope "Mummy" dosen't mean old, dusty & cursed... :(

Why are they naming film after monsters???

Steve K

[Tin Can]

Made many more mistakes

Film disappearing is my favorite

I conclude my film was not in both guides, pulling the DS and putting it back flipped the film to hide inside the bellows, yet not blocking the lens view.

It was clinging to the bellows inside

For at least a year I wasted film

or did I?


Lowest sheet film available as the process of learning how to LF (if this is the case) will involve plenty of Oooopsiiees...

From learning how to load sheet film,

~light leaking film holders, from wore out flap to !! dark slide area and more.
~loading the sheet of emulsion side away from the lens.
~Loading more than one sheet of film per side of the film holder.
~Loading the sheet of film with the interleaving paper causing ?? image on the sheet of film.

Processing the film.. how best to do this.

Getting to know the view camera and all it's controls, what they do..
~Setting up the camera on a tripod.
~Focusing/composing the image on the upside down_backwards on the ground glass.

then sorting out this view camera movement puzzle (one of THE most important aspects and reasons to use a view camera), this section from the Linhof LF book can help: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?164126-Importance-of-camera-movements-gt-Alan-amp-others-long-amp-Linhof

Getting comfy with the view camera is one significant part of learning how to LF.

Figuring out the needed exposure time/lens aperture for the film image to be recorded which includes:

~Setting the shutter speed, winding up the shutter before exposure.
~Setting the lens aperture as needed before making the exposure (one of the most common Ooopsiiees).
~Pulling the dark slide then putting the dark slide back in the same side causing a multi exposure on the next image to be made..


And there will be more.. Figure the first box of film as a steep learning how to LF process or why using the lowest cost film initially is a very reasonable choice. Once further up on the how to LF learning curve and the beginnings of where ya wanna to go with this LF image making stuff is the time to take on proper high quality film with the goals of expressive/creative image making.


Bernice

[esearing]

For at least a year I wasted film

or did I?

The best of our images are taken with the mind - perfect every time.

[Bernice Loui]

Frankenweenie, more possible..


Bernice




Looking forward to see what they will charge for Mummy 400 8x10.

[nitroplait]

Everything indicates that it is Foma. It is not cheaper than Foma, not compared to EU prices, that is.

[jeannicolas]

Everything indicates that it is Foma. It is not cheaper than Foma, not compared to EU prices, that is.

Had no idea Foma was that much cheaper in Europe! In the US, looks like it's ~$1.10/sheet for FPP Frankenstein (if you buy 25 sheets), and $1.60/sheet for Arista/Foma (if you buy 25... a bit cheaper if you buy 50). So FPP's offer is definitely interesting even if it's the same stuff.

[nitroplait]

Had no idea Foma was that much cheaper in Europe! In the US, looks like it's ~$1.10/sheet for FPP Frankenstein (if you buy 25 sheets), and $1.60/sheet for Arista/Foma (if you buy 25... a bit cheaper if you buy 50). So FPP's offer is definitely interesting even if it's the same stuff.
50 sheets of 4x5 Foma is 40€ including 19% German VAT (give or take a Euro depending on ISO). That’s current pricing from FotoImpex.com, Germany.

[nitroplait]

To make it more comparable to US pricing which is normally discussed without VAT/sales tax:

A box of Foma200 4x5 - 25 sheets: €20,97 = US$21.40 (before Tax)
A box of Foma200 4x5 - 50 sheets: €33.53 = US$34.22 (before Tax)

Prices from Fotoimpex.com, exchange conversion by Google. July 7, 2022.

[Tin Can]

I have 8 packs of Fujiroid 100 and 1 BW left

I find I can nail my studio test shots of humans with 2 exposures, using studio strobes and a good meter

I use stand in mannequins

I then shoot REAL film at 1/2 box speed

X-Ray at 25-50

Since my Fujiroid will be gone soon I also have trays ready and film in the soup within minutes

DR is a bedroom and studio a tall living room

I bought this run down OLD Home specifically for photography

Finding the tall ceiling was hard

[Tobias Key]

I would use a film you already have experience with. Otherwise you are testing a film and a camera at the same time. If you use a new film and the exposure seems off how will you know if it's the shutter, the exposure, or your development? Far better to use something tried and true like HP5+ if you have experience with it.

[Alan Klein]

I would use a film you already have experience with. Otherwise you are testing a film and a camera at the same time. If you use a new film and the exposure seems off how will you know if it's the shutter, the exposure, or your development? Far better to use something tried and true like HP5+ if you have experience with it.

That's good advice. Make sure it;s not expired either. Introducing issues when you're trying to determine if an old, used camera is working properly requires non-expired film you're familiar with. Otherwise, if you have bad results, you won't know what's causing it. Keep things simple. Avoid confusing yourself.

[Alan Klein]

I'm personally quite glad that I started out with high quality films instead, that I planned to stick with. Some of my very first b&w shots turned out to be "beginner's luck" classics which have been reprinted numerous times over the years. Lots of misfires early on of course. But ya never know. It's hard to be a competent lumberjack if you scrimp in investment early and try to learn cutting down trees with a fingernail file. I believe in learning with the actual tools and ingredients you'll need in the long run; otherwise, a lot simply has to be re-learned or re-invested, or you might get discouraged in route.

Another reason is that a lot of my earliest view camera and sheet film work was done in rugged remote terrain hard to get into again; and the lighting is never quite the same anyway. Some things you only get one crack at. It would have been counterproductive, given all that effort, to gamble with so-so film. But at least I did already know how to tray develop b&w sheet film, since I used it for color film contrast masking at least a decade before getting into b&w photog per se. Likewise with view camera technique; I had already learned that for sake of color film. But even in that case, many of my very early color shots were truly keepers.

Just dive in. Sure, there will be plenty of mishaps to the learning curve. But ya gotta start somewhere. To practice loading and unloading holders in the dark, you only need a single piece of film, even voided film.

I agree. No one should sell themselves short especially if you used cameras for a long time. I just started LF two years ago. I bought my usual film, Velvia 50, and some new stuff Provia and Ektachrome and Tmax 100 BW. Sure I blew a few shots forgetting to remove the dark slide or missetting the exposure. But I also got some keepers that I'm pleased with. Use a good film that's not expired. Go for it.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums/72157715763486212
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums/72157714124881023

[Mitchellsig]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have been using Harman direct positive paper with some good results. I did order a box of Frankenstein 200. I am also going to order a box of Ilford HP5 Plus.

[r.e.]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have been using Harman direct positive paper with some good results. I did order a box of Frankenstein 200. I am also going to order a box of Ilford HP5 Plus.

I've been thinking about trying the Ilford/Harman paper myself since seeing the video below. What do you think of it? Will you continue using it after you start using film?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFUSiRwfOHs

By the way, if you haven't seen it, fellow Minnesotan Alec Soth has an active YouTube channel himself: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHIxfgu7HE9_Tok9OGNrQ_g/videos

[Mitchellsig]

Thank you for the link to Alec Soth. I don't think I will continue to use the Direct Positive Paper, I've had some good results and so very bad results. For me, it has been inconsistent. Might be my lack of experience. Can't wait to get the film!

[jnantz]

Thank you for the link to Alec Soth. I don't think I will continue to use the Direct Positive Paper, I've had some good results and so very bad results. For me, it has been inconsistent. Might be my lack of experience. Can't wait to get the film!

the Ilford DPP is sometimes difficult to use. Some suggest it has runaway contrast so you need to "pre flash" the paper ( under an enlarger or in your camera with opaque glass unfocused over the lens to the north sky there the naked photographer has a video about doing this if you find him on you tube )
you might consider overcast and / or open shade. have fun with your film when it arrives!

[Paul Ron]

i started with arista then went to berger n illfords then switched to tmax plus x tri x and each one required the same start over for getting exposues n development times spot on... turned out youll need at least a 25 sh box each time. so pick a film you intend to stay with for a while.... any film!

each film you pick has very different characteristics and it takes time to get to know it well enough to make good images.

[r.e.]

the Ilford DPP is sometimes difficult to use. Some suggest it has runaway contrast so you need to "pre flash" the paper...

Ilford/Harman talks about pre-flashing its direct positive paper starting at 1:35 of the video above (post #41).

[r.e.]

Looking forward to see what they will charge for Mummy 400 8x10.

So am I. If the price is in line with the price for 4x5, I'll be buying to have an 8x10 film that I can use without being concerned too much about cost per sheet.