DeVere 504 questions [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Daniel.E

29-Jun-2022, 05:57

Somebody near me has had a DeVere 504 in his shed for 6 years, never used it because he didn't have space. He wants to trade it for a small 6x7 LPL enlarger I have. I went to see it yesterday and it's missing the timer. The light in the head doesn't turn on, I read that I might need the timer for that. The fan works though and the enlarger is in ok shape. It goes up and down, not the smoothest but I don't know how smooth those controls are. Also he doesn't have anymore the baseboard (24"x24", I think?) and only one half of a 6x6 and a 6x7 mask. (Originally the previous owner had all the masks from Minox to 4x5)
I also comes with the Colour 500 and extra 6 channels.

I was hoping for a 504 that just needed cleaning up and ready to go, but I'm not sure I can take the project of hunting down parts. My questions are...

1. How is the baseboard attached to the chassis?
2. What would you do in my case?

Fred L

29-Jun-2022, 06:13

the baseboard attaches with bolts (likely Metric, but can check mine). I use an Omega digital timer with my 504 but any good timer shld be ok. If the Transtab powers up and you can hear the fan, I can't recall if a timer had to be connected or not to get the bulbs on. Neg carrriers or inserts can be found so I wouldn't worry about that. You also need to loosen the knobs (located by the bottom of the column on either side) that lock the elevation and focus controls, otherwise you're grinding the mechanism.

This is imo, one of the best 4x5 and smaller enlargers out there and the bottom mounted focus and elevation knobs are the icing on the cake and make it easier to adjust image size. I'd get it if I were you, and well worth the work cleaning up.

Also, what's the Colour 500 and six channel thing ?

Daniel.E

29-Jun-2022, 06:24

Great news! Thank you!
The Transtab only has a center plug for the timer and one for the color head on the lower left corner.
The Colour 500 was some sort of color analyzer with sensors were the lens attaches.

OHHHH I forgot... there are NO lens boards either. It's definitely a project!

Fred L

29-Jun-2022, 06:31

you can get parts like lens boards and neg inserts etc from either KHB (based in Ontario, Canada) or that auction site. fwiw, I would put that 500 unit in storage, but then I only print b/w.

Daniel.E

29-Jun-2022, 06:38

Yes, I've seen those but they are rather pricey and much rather save some $$

Tin Can

29-Jun-2022, 07:08

The DeVere 405 is the best chassis ever made

You can wall mount or bench by removing the base and using short knobs

Be careful with the springs, they can bite

A common problem is notchy height and focus adjustments from dried grease in the bearings, wash them out in situ with degreaser and regrease

It has excellent adjustment screws, that can make it PERFECT

Get ONE 135 mm enlarging lens and one lens board to match

Read on this forum and make a better B+W Head, Colour is dead

Make Matboard film carriers, add complications as needed

The upright is also used with their 5X7 and 8X10

I have one

I bought mine in 2 parts

before shipping became $$$

Very rare in USA, made in UK

Ulophot

29-Jun-2022, 07:13

Daniel, that';s pretty fancy furniture it's sitting on for a darkroom!

Enjoy your project.

Luis-F-S

29-Jun-2022, 12:08

You will either need to use a DeVere 1955 Universal timer, or better yet, use any timer with the KHB timer interphase cord. for a 120V Transtab well worth the money:

http://store.khbphotografix.com/De-Vere-3845-120V-Timer-Interface.html

As already noted, probably the best enlarger you can buy!! You can find lens boards on the auction site. What lens will you use on it, that will determine whether you will need flat or recessed boards.

Luis-F-S

29-Jun-2022, 12:22

I was hoping for a 504 that just needed cleaning up and ready to go, but I'm not sure I can take the project of hunting down parts. My questions are...

1. How is the baseboard attached to the chassis?
2. What would you do in my case?

I'd have a baseboard fabricated. It attches to it with some 1/4-20 bolts I believe to the frame. Why don't you post some photos of what you actually have so we can help you better. If you want, you can pm me your phone and I'll call you with some help. L

Daniel.E

29-Jun-2022, 13:12

Wow thank you so much!! I asked the owner to send me picture of everything. I should have taken a couple myself, just didn't think of it.
It was basically, the chassis, the light source, the transtab, the universal carrier, and half a mask for 6x6, and half a mask for 6x7.

I found also that RH Designs sells a cable http://rhdesigns.co.uk/product/connecting-cable-for-devere-transtab-units I might get that one instead since I already use their stopclock.

I'll send you a PM once I get the picture from the seller. I appreciate it a ton, Luis!

interneg

29-Jun-2022, 13:32

Firstly, read the manuals here (https://www.darkroomdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/DeVere-504-Manual-Complete.pdf)and here (https://www.darkroomdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/DeVere-504-Manual-0001-NEW.pdf) - they will stop you damaging the machine and/ or hurting yourself. All the bolts/ screws are BSF or BA threads NOT metric or US fittings. The baseboard screw fittings are 2BA (I recall).

Odyssey Sales (http://odyssey-sales.co.uk/) (De Vere's successor) can probably answer more questions than you thought, can supply a great many parts, carrier inserts, lensboards etc, etc.

KHB (http://khbphotografix.com/)might also have parts etc that you need.

The 500 analyser thing is probably best replaced by a timer - the timer socket is a standard Bulgin plug. Wiring details are in the manual, or Odyssey can usually supply a suitable timer.

Daniel.E

29-Jun-2022, 13:34

What lens will you use on it, that will determine whether you will need flat or recessed boards.

I'll be using a 50mm, a 105mm, and a 135mm or 150mm

Daniel.E

29-Jun-2022, 13:41

Firstly, read the manuals here (https://www.darkroomdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/DeVere-504-Manual-Complete.pdf)and here (https://www.darkroomdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/DeVere-504-Manual-0001-NEW.pdf) - they will stop you damaging the machine and/ or hurting yourself. All the bolts/ screws are BSF or BA threads NOT metric or US fittings. The baseboard screw fittings are 2BA (I recall).

Odyssey Sales (http://odyssey-sales.co.uk/) (De Vere's successor) can probably answer more questions tha you thought, can supply a great many parts, carrier inserts, lensboards etc, etc.

KHB (http://khbphotografix.com/)might also have parts etc that you need.

The 500 analyser thing is probably best replaced by a timer - the timer socket is a standard Bulgin plug. Wiring details are in the manual, or Odyssey can usually supply a suitable timer.

Thank you! I'm trying to keep costs down but I'll read the manuals and try to find whatever else I need. I appreciate the reply!

interneg

29-Jun-2022, 13:45

I'll be using a 50mm, a 105mm, and a 135mm or 150mm

Panels you need:

1972 1" recess, L39 thread for 50mm
1973 flat, L39 thread for 105/ 135 (mostly)
1974 flat 50mm thread for 150mm (mostly)

Exceptions are if you need the 39mm fine thread or 42mm thread, those might need to be custom ordered. John Boyce may have one or two on hand at Odyssey. De Vere had a close relationship with Rodenstock, thus Rodenstock enlarging lenses tend to be what their machines were designed around.

Daniel.E

29-Jun-2022, 13:51

Excellent information! I'm getting excited about this enlarger more and more. I have a Beseler 45V-XL and is nice and all but yesterday barely handling the DeVere I could see myself switching to the DeVere.

Daniel.E

30-Jun-2022, 06:17

Can a closed loop system be used as a normal manual enlarger? I'm starting to think that the one I'm thinking of getting is closed loop because of that Colour 500 analyzer/timer.

Tin Can

30-Jun-2022, 06:48

The Beseler 45V-XL is also a very good chassis

I have mine wall mounted with 8X10 conversion

There are Beseler 45V-XL 8X10 conversion kits, however I have DIY made by a very famous artist

I would keep both and set them up for 2 or 3 formats, adding 5X7

Excellent information! I'm getting excited about this enlarger more and more. I have a Beseler 45V-XL and is nice and all but yesterday barely handling the DeVere I could see myself switching to the DeVere.

Luis-F-S

30-Jun-2022, 08:01

Can a closed loop system be used as a normal manual enlarger? I'm starting to think that the one I'm thinking of getting is closed loop because of that Colour 500 analyzer/timer.
If it has knobs for the three colors it’s not a closed loop head. The c-500 analyzer has nothing to do whether it’s closed loop or not. The photo you posted is for a manual head.

Daniel.E

1-Jul-2022, 07:50

Wonderful! I just got it. This is what comes with it. I plugged the Colour 500 to the power source and the analyzer lights turn on but there's a loud sound on the power source and a smell :( the head doesn't light up though and if I unplug the analyzer then the power source doesn't make the sound and still the head doesn't turn on.

Any ideas about that buzzing sound and smell?

Thank you!

Tin Can

1-Jul-2022, 08:52

Danger

Daniel.E

1-Jul-2022, 08:56

*Sigh* I wish I knew what I was doing. All the lights illuminate in the analyzer and the panels in the head illuminate. The bulb inside the head gets hot but no light and the fan turns on.

Fred L

1-Jul-2022, 11:43

make sure the mixing box is oriented corrected and I personally, I wouldn't power up the head unless it was, again, oriented properly (ie- not on its side or back, but with dials facing forward).

I would also, as suggested, skip the analyzer altogether as it would have no use for b/w printing afaik. there are two switches on the Transtab and on my enlarger, flipping gives me glorious light. can check later.

Daniel.E

1-Jul-2022, 12:25

I removed the mixing box and oriented the head facing forward and couldn't see any light.
I read that I could be needing the analyzer/timer in order to turn on the light. I have a good setup for b/w already and wanted the DeVere for color. Flipping the switches turn the fan on but nothing else :/

interneg

1-Jul-2022, 14:46

I read that I could be needing the analyzer/timer in order to turn on the light.

Plug the head into the transtab. Take the square black Bulgin plug that runs to the analyser off that cable. Set it up as a shorting plug as per the manual, plug into transtab. Now the transtab will switch the main light with the 'focus' switch. You'll need a metronome for timing. Make sure that it's an ELC lamp in the socket

Daniel.E

1-Jul-2022, 17:19

It worked!!! The light came on, thank you!! I read that in the manual but didn't think about just removing the plug from the cable.

The only issue is that the power supply makes a buzzing sound and there's a bit of a smell there.

Duolab123

1-Jul-2022, 21:09

Fred L

2-Jul-2022, 04:02

the Transtab will always hum, it's not going to be a silent printing session haha. smell could be dust burning off ?

Daniel.E

2-Jul-2022, 08:19

Oh good!! Then it’s normal. I’ll open up the transtab and give it a good clean. Thank you everyone!

Daniel.E

2-Jul-2022, 09:09

Is there a cooling fan that's not turning? Go slow, that sure is pretty. I have Zone VI and Beseler stuff, all works well. Still I would find room for a Devere!

The fan is turning and rather quiet, no real issues with the color head, except for some dust. The main problem is the Transtab, but that it might be me that I'm not used to such a loud power source

interneg

2-Jul-2022, 11:09

The fan is turning and rather quiet, no real issues with the color head, except for some dust. The main problem is the Transtab, but that it might be me that I'm not used to such a loud power source

The De Vere dichroic head fans are usually very noticeable volume-wise unless they've been replaced.

Hans Berkhout

2-Jul-2022, 13:16

The glass neg carrier (with top glass anti newton, lower glass clear) can be used for 4x5 and medium format negs, for 35mm get the masks. To position negs correctly in the glass carrier you can place it on top of a flash light so as to see exactly what you are doing. I use the type as shown here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224464360029?hash=item34431e525d:g:8EAAAOSwqTVgLwSz

I used to have two neg carriers, one with glass and one with the 35mm masks permanently in place. I still use the glass carrier, but for 35mm a Focomat1C.

The dichro head is fine for split filter printing with the M and Y filters . Or you can calibrate the dichro head for your variable contrast paper(s) following the instructions as written by Paul Butzi on this topic. No need to use the C filter with either approach.

For correct alignment of all planes a Versalab Parallel tool is very helpful. You'll need the proper hex keys and a screw driver.

Good luck, it's a great machine.

Peter De Smidt

2-Jul-2022, 14:50

For roll film, I prefer using a glass AN top piece but the metal cutout for the bottom.

Note: there are two De Vere negative holders, a thick one and a newer, thinner one. I prefer the older one. Both can be used a 504, but you might have to change the metal posts that lift the head if you switch. That's easy, as it's just regular sized round stock.

pitotshock

4-Jul-2022, 06:42

I'm in the middle of sorting out a floor model DeVere 504, and much like yourself, I needed to get a number of the accessories to make it work. I ended up buying the cable for generic timers from KHB (pricey though) and the head fired up no problem. Lens boards can be bought new from KHB and from customphototools.com as wells as used on ebay etc... I found some locally as these seem to be reasonably plentiful here in the area. Seems the Canadian gov't seemed to like them. I made the new baseboard from the drawing surface of an old drafting table. I can confirm the fans in the head are quite noisy.

228827

Luis-F-S

4-Jul-2022, 06:52

I made the new baseboard from the drawing surface of an old drafting table. I can confirm the fans in the head are quite noisy.

I had a baseboard made using a double formica countertop material. I can also confirm that the fans on my 5108 are noisy. Luis

Martin Aislabie

6-Jul-2022, 04:43

Hi Daniel

If that is a photograph of your actual enlarger - then you already have the base board - the large white thing at the bottom.

It is either a Mk4 or Mk5 enlarger and you will need that information if you ever need a negative carrier or its inserts.

I have exactly the same enlarger as you - and as I never intended to enlarge anything but B&W, I simply unscrewed the analyser sitting on the left side of the column and cut off the sensing wires.

I've never missed the unit in the intervening 15 years I've owned mine.

I then bought an RH Designs Stopclock Pro enlarger timer plus the accessory connecting cable for the Trans Stab unit - the enlarger timer then plugs in to the Trans Stab unit and the two work seamlessly together.

The RH Stopclock is an expensive bit of kit but is a really clever/intelligent/intuitive/useful add on and I would never go back to anything else.

The fan in my head is almost totally silent - so check for dust accumulation on the fan blades and make sure that it isn't vibrating the head if it is old and out of balance/worn bearings.

My Trans Stab fan makes a lot of noise and runs continuously.

The Trans Stab also buzzes quite loudly unit it is properly warmed up - but this is nothing to worry about.

Best of luck

Martin

Peter De Smidt

6-Jul-2022, 05:35

I have exactly the same enlarger as you - and as I never intended to enlarge anything but B&W, I simply unscrewed the analyser sitting on the left side of the column and cut off the sensing wires.

I've never missed the unit in the intervening 15 years I've owned mine.
.
.
.
I then bought an RH Designs Stopclock Pro enlarger timer plus the accessory connecting cable for the Trans Stab unit - the enlarger timer then plugs in to the Trans Stab unit and the two work seamlessly together.

That's what I did as well.

Jeroen

13-Dec-2022, 03:05

I also got me a 504 with dichro head (single lamp). The fan only works when the lamp is on, is that right? Or should the fan start working when the main switch is on? I'm worried that I'll burn a hole in the foam lining of the diffuser box.

Mick Fagan

13-Dec-2022, 16:13

Jeroen, I have the exact same unit as pictured in post 33. As soon as I switch the enlarger on, the fan starts up and remains on until I switch off at the mains.

Peter De Smidt

13-Dec-2022, 16:53

Mine works the same way as Mick's.

kfed1984

13-Jan-2024, 13:27

I got an offer for $2000 CAD (about $1500 USD) for a De Vere 504, desktop version, very good condition, neg carriers 35mm to 4x5, 3 lenses for 35mm to 4x5 coverage, timer, etc. But with dichro color head.

Do you think this is a good deal/idea? My other option is Durst 1200 4x5" enlarger, but I see them on ebay for $2500 USD min.

Also, does the color head make it a challenge to print B&W? I mean there's magenta and yellow filters like in B&W head, does this make any difference? Is it the halogen bulb that creates a problem vs. tungsten?

Also, is it possible to ever convert De Vere 504 for 8x10 enlargement with a custom-made head? Would it accommodate something like this, or the head does not come off in an easy way?

interneg

13-Jan-2024, 13:55

Also, does the color head make it a challenge to print B&W?

No, it doesn't, in fact it sometimes makes it easier.

Also, is it possible to ever convert De Vere 504 for 8x10 enlargement with a custom-made head? Would it accommodate something like this, or the head does not come off in an easy way?

Not easily or cheaply. The 504/507/5108/515 are modular, but there's a whole sequence of parts you need, along with some reasonably high precision requirements. The time/ cost expenditure of doing it well will be greater than finding a 5108.

calebarchie

13-Jan-2024, 16:06

interneg

13-Jan-2024, 16:42

Is that what they go for these days?

In decent condition, yes - 5108's can be twice that.

kfed1984

13-Jan-2024, 17:42

Is that what they go for these days? About what I paid for my 5108 last model as new condition.

Where the hell did you get a 5108 for $1500, and when? Do you have any more or know anyone who has one ? LOL

kfed1984

13-Jan-2024, 17:43

what do De Vere 504 go for there days? I could not find one on ebay.

Also, which one is a better package overall: De Vere 504 or Durst Laborator 1200 ?

kfed1984

13-Jan-2024, 17:45

In decent condition, yes - 5108's can be twice that.

De Vere 5108 are like $10k.

kfed1984

13-Jan-2024, 17:53

No, it doesn't, in fact it sometimes makes it easier.

Not easily or cheaply. The 504/507/5108/515 are modular, but there's a whole sequence of parts you need, along with some reasonably high precision requirements. The time/ cost expenditure of doing it well will be greater than finding a 5108.

How and why does it make it easier to print B&W with a color head? I heard a few people say that its a "pain" to use CMY color head for "proper" B&W printing. But B&W is essentially the same, no? without the cyan? Just the magenta and yellow filters. Or the density of the filters is deeper in one of theses heads ? Do B&W variable contrast heads use halogen bulbs like CMY color heads?

Getting a 5108 is like $10k, plus its a giant beast. I could machine the parts with good precision. The LED variable contrast head can also be engineered.

Mick Fagan

13-Jan-2024, 20:48

I've used both of these enlargers in a professional setting. I've also used bigger versions of both of these enlargers and horizontal versions of the De Vere.

In essence, both are really good at what they do, but, the Durst enlarger(s) work best with some pretty fancy equipment. As long as you have the various negative carriers and a good working head and power supply, you should be alright. Bits and pieces for these enlargers when new were a bit hard to obtain, I'm talking around 35+ years ago. The range of extras for the Durst enlargers that will be coming with your possible purchase, is very important. Ensure that whatever the model of Durst enlarger, can actually enlarge your film formats.

I have a De Vere 504 free standing enlarger, essentially what you are looking at except it has giraffe legs. It has one other nice trick, the table can be lowered to around 150mm from the floor and while you are on your knees using a focusing aid, you can accurately focus and only have to reach up to lock things. The table top De Vere enlargers are extremely well built and the focus lock of both the negative stage and the head stage are the best in the business. These things lock rock solid.

Alignment possibilities of the De Vere enlarger, are tremendous. Everything can be individually aligned to the millimetre. For some years I aligned my enlarger using various methods, then around 15 years ago I was able to buy a Salthill Enlarger Tool; which uses mirrors and such. I was able to adjust my enlarger to an incredible degree using all of the available and needed adjustments.

The rigid construction of the De Vere is unmatched by any other enlarger of comparable size.

As to whether you can use the Dichroic head to do B&W, sure can. There is one caveat, you really can't get much harder than grade 4½; perhaps a slight bit more. What you can do is grades in-between, as in grade 2¾ or even smaller grade increments than that.

The De Vere enlarger sounds like a good deal, you seem to be getting everything to enlarge everything from 35mm right through to 4x5" including lenses, negative carriers and the like. About the only thing which seems to wear on the De Vere head is the fan, which is on the left side of the head, a simple computer type fan replacement using the correct voltage and wattage is apparently an easy fix. As my enlarger is still running its original fan, I don't know.

In general you use two filters in the colour head, Yellow and Magenta. I often add all three filters in equal amounts to give some neutral density, as in 30C 30Y 30M and then use Y & M filtration on top of the base 30 filtration. 30 units of all three filters equals approximately 1 stop of light, which for very small enlargements enables you to use a longer enlarging time than would be possible using no base neutral density.

I'd be onto that De Vere enlarger like a rat up a drainpipe, if its in good condition.

Fred L

13-Jan-2024, 21:40

Other than the wonky neg carrier hinges (iykyk), the Devere 504 is as good as it gets. The colour head is very useful for variable contrast but even better if you can find one, is the Variocontrast head. I have both but the vario head is a dream to use.

re:8x10. I was hoping to find a not so $$ solution to convert the 504 to print 5x7 or 8x10 but it sounds like a lot of work. The speed bump is the opening in the neg stage. I guess one could try and open it up but that would mean possibly sacrificing the enlarger if it doesn't work out.

Have fun with the Devere if you get it.

kfed1984

14-Jan-2024, 11:41

Thanks guys for sharing the information. I found that facebook marketplace is a really good place for enlargers. The good models like LPL 4500 and Durst L1200 disappear within a week. But new ones pop up all the time. The guy selling the De Vere 504 is gonna be back end of the month. If somebody else gets it, new ads should show up. But maybe not for De Vere.

calebarchie

14-Jan-2024, 15:32

Sorry I misread that as 2.5k which it was closer to, but still a far cry from 10k... And yes, I know of several around these parts, still in use though.

kfed1984

14-Jan-2024, 17:27

back in the 70s and 80s the 1080 was probably more than 10k, not adjusted for inflation. I guess you bought yours in the 2000s when they were given away for free.

calebarchie

15-Jan-2024, 15:03

back in the 70s and 80s the 1080 was probably more than 10k, not adjusted for inflation. I guess you bought yours in the 2000s when they were given away for free.

I got it in 2020 - have a look on my blog. A lot were scrapped locally, especially the horizontal units and at the time I was looking you could still get one new from the factory in China. Not sure if that's still the case post-covid but I recall they wanted around 5K just for the 5108 LED head - check taobao etc. Odyssey in the UK seem to deal mostly with parts and refurbs but I'm sure they could arrange a new one from the mainland if you were so inclined.

C

kfed1984

15-Feb-2024, 17:07

I'm driving 6 hours on Saturday to check out the De Vere. The seller is back from vacation now.

Anything I should be looking for, anything that could stand out?

Some pictures of the unit here. 3 lenses, 35mm, 120, and 4x5 masks/carriers, and some spare bulbs.

I heard the 504 uses 2 bulbs instead of 3, how does this work? The second bulb is for some brightness adjustment?

246677 246678 246679 246680 246681 246682

Peter De Smidt

15-Feb-2024, 17:55

Just looking at the pictures, the color head says "Single lamp" on it. It looks like a nicely extensive setup.

ic-racer

15-Feb-2024, 20:10

interneg

16-Feb-2024, 04:17

I heard the 504 uses 2 bulbs instead of 3, how does this work? The second bulb is for some brightness adjustment?

The MKV dichroic uses 2x250w, all the other De Vere made 504 dichroics are 1x250w. Not sure where you got the idea of 3x bulbs from.

Tin Can

16-Feb-2024, 07:48

Chain becomes notchy with age

Clean it and regrease

Watch out for the spring

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 10:26

The MKV dichroic uses 2x250w, all the other De Vere made 504 dichroics are 1x250w. Not sure where you got the idea of 3x bulbs from.

I got that idea from other enlargers that use separate bulbs for each of the three colors. The Phillips RGB enlarger has 3 bulbs for example.

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 10:40

Chain becomes notchy with age

Clean it and regrease

Watch out for the spring

Thanks. I will have to disassemble it. Probably will not fit in the car. Does the column come off the board without any springs exploding in your face or any chains that have to be removed?

There has to be some mechanical linkage from the pulleys to the column.

Fred L

16-Feb-2024, 12:30

that looks like a floor model so will have to take the column apart to transport. when you do that, be very carefully with the head. I took the light source off my 504 and 5108, lowered the stage, then, and this important, tie down the stage with strong straps etc. as well as locking down the controls, cuz if it releases and your noggin is in the line fire, it will put you in a world of hurt.

Tin Can

16-Feb-2024, 12:38

Is it wall mount or bench/floor mount

It is modular

It has either short shaft or long shaft knobs

always put the head at highest for safety of the lamp and your body

Tin Can

16-Feb-2024, 12:43

Take a pic of the underneath for legs

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 16:51

This is a bench top model, just hard to see on the photo.

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 16:53

ok so as I understand the spring is in highest tension when the head is at lowest point?

If I raise the head, can I lock it and detach the column from the base?

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 17:06

interneg

16-Feb-2024, 17:36

Located a couple of manuals.

https://www.darkroomdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/DeVere-504-Manual-Complete.pdf
https://www.darkroomdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/DeVere-504-Manual-0001-NEW.pdf

I did not locate the tension springs in these manuals. Not sure what to watch out for.

Looks like the pulleys and chain have to be taken apart:
246748

But doing so will probably unleash the tension spring, wherever it is.

Speak with KHB Photografix before you move the thing. They will probably be happy to walk you through how not to hurt yourself or the enlarger.

De Vere's are not difficult to move if you aren't headstrong and read the manual properly. The number of people who don't/ won't is perennially concerning.

What you are dealing with is the 504DVB. Locate those sections in the manual and read them. Depending on how you want to move it, you should only need to lift off the dichroic head, you only need to remove the baseboard section and drive wheels if you have limited space. The alignments on the machine are seriously well locked down and will probably barely shift after a van ride (they were designed to go on Royal Navy ships and hold up to those sort of conditions). The constant force tensioner spring is inside the column and will, if you don't have things locked down (or the neg stage at the top of the column), instantly slam the neg stage to the top of the column the moment you lift off the dichroic head - it is potentially very very dangerous. Treat it with appropriate care and you'll be fine.

It's quite a late model 504 with the newer column shape/ black paint, thus probably very little wear.

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 17:48

Speak with KHB Photografix before you move the thing. They will probably be happy to walk you through how not to hurt yourself or the enlarger.

Ok so the board comes off the base frame, which can remain attached to the column during transportation.

Then I will lock the stages and remove the head, white board, and wheels if necessary. I'm thinking the white board is a lot bigger than the base frame, so that will save a lot of space.

Thanks!

Fred L

16-Feb-2024, 18:56

I have two and when I transported them, I took the lightbox off, moved the neg assembly closer to the baseboard, and locked/strapped it down tight. I felt it was easier to move with all the weight in one area. securing the upper assembly is not a prob. just be aware that it is super tensioned. I would also put the head back BEFORE undoing any straps etc..

One is a dichroic head and the other variable contrast (sooo nice). They are a pleasure to print with, other than the noisy Transtab box haha. I use an Omega digital timer with a dual foot switch and a metronome for printing.

Have fun with it, you won't regret getting it.

interneg

16-Feb-2024, 18:58

Ok so the board comes off the base frame, which can remain attached to the column during transportation.

Then I will lock the stages and remove the head, white board, and wheels if necessary. I'm thinking the white board is a lot bigger than the base frame, so that will save a lot of space.

Thanks!

The baseboard is 60x60cm, the whole thing will easily fit in most estate cars, never mind a van, without removing the baseboard from the base casting. Do the least dismantling you need to.

As long as you can fit something 60x80cm (the whole area of the column, base casting/ baseboard and control wheels), you will not need to do anything other than lift the dichroic head off & properly secure the neg & lens stages.

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 18:59

One is a dichroic head and the other variable contrast (sooo nice)..

How do you find the dichroic for B&W printing? Is the only issue is that contrast grade does not go up as high as variable contrast head? That's what was said in this thread somewhere.

interneg

16-Feb-2024, 19:10

How do you find the dichroic for B&W printing?

It's absolutely fine for the job - the problem is there's a fair bit of contradictory information out there. And it isn't difficult to get a G5 filter to where you need it, if you really need it.

From what I recall, the filters in the colour & De Vere VC (as opposed to Ilford MG500) heads are identical, it's just that they are separately controlled in the colour and geared together in the VC to give constant density. To be absolutely honest, I cannot say that I have found a De Vere colour head to be any hindrance to B&W printing, even when needing to jump around in grades.

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 19:24

It's absolutely fine for the job - the problem is there's a fair bit of contradictory information out there. And it isn't difficult to get a G5 filter to where you need it

Thanks for the moral support, lets see how it goes tomorrow, long drive to Montreal from Toronto.

Fred L

16-Feb-2024, 19:28

Find the appropriate chart with filtration settings. I have one somewhere for different enlargers. I found it worked well but like using the multigrade more. For those who have never used a Devere 504, the really beauty, for me at least, aside from the solid build, are the control wheels at the front. No more reaching up to adjust focus etc.. All done at baseboard level.

Have fun and pick up some bagels while you're there :)

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 19:59

Peter De Smidt

16-Feb-2024, 20:39

It's absolutely fine for the job - the problem is there's a fair bit of contradictory information out there. And it isn't difficult to get a G5 filter to where you need it, if you really need it.

From what I recall, the filters in the colour & De Vere VC (as opposed to Ilford MG500) heads are identical, it's just that they are separately controlled in the colour and geared together in the VC to give constant density. To be absolutely honest, I cannot say that I have found a De Vere colour head to be any hindrance to B&W printing, even when needing to jump around in grades.

With mine, I used Paul Butzi's method to get consistent highlight densities with contrast changes. It's not that hard to do. https://fliphtml5.com/exru/vhtf/basic

kfed1984

16-Feb-2024, 20:48

With mine, I used Paul Butzi's method to get consistent highlight densities with contrast changes. It's not that hard to do. https://fliphtml5.com/exru/vhtf/basic

Also, doesn't each Ilford paper pack contain a guide for different CMY enlarger settings for each grade? Although the dials on dichro heads probably have different scales.

Peter De Smidt

16-Feb-2024, 21:49

Also, doesn't each Ilford paper pack contain a guide for different CMY enlarger settings for each grade? Although the dials on dichro heads probably have different scales.

And the filters vary. When I replaced the magenta filters on my De Vere head my max contrast jumped from grade 3.5 to 4.5.

Tin Can

17-Feb-2024, 05:33

I use an INTREPID enlarger LED HEAD

With the adapter mount/weight

Fred L

17-Feb-2024, 07:09

Thanks for the encouraging words again. Bagels? I'm not sure what is the top food in Montreal, thought it was poutine, but maybe its bagels. Will check it out.

Fairmont for bagels but some will stand by St Viateur till the end of time. Poutine has to be had in Victoriaville or Drummondville afaic haha. I'd also try and stop by some camera stores there if you have time, Studio Argentique is one I'm curious about.

kfed1984

17-Feb-2024, 20:49

Fairmont for bagels but some will stand by St Viateur till the end of time. Poutine has to be had in Victoriaville or Drummondville afaic haha. I'd also try and stop by some camera stores there if you have time, Studio Argentique is one I'm curious about.

Just driving back, getting some gas now. This enlarger is much bigger than I thought. Had to take it apart. Spring was not an issue. Taking it out from the owner's little darkroom shed was a problem. Didn't have time for bagels.

246807

Peter Lewin

18-Feb-2024, 06:08

I use an INTREPID enlarger LED HEAD

With the adapter mount/weight

Tin Can, Unless I've missed it, you have never posted about your experience using the Intrepid LED Head, although you have posted about buying it. Could you give us your "review," any comments about ancillary hardware like timers, ease and effectiveness of contrast controls, etc? Thanks.

kfed1984

18-Feb-2024, 19:44

The only issue I have so far is the focus seems a bit choppy, because of the chain.

Is this due to tension in the chain or some other setting?

The focus cannot be made accurately enough with a jumpy motion in the focus wheel.

kfed1984

18-Feb-2024, 20:08

Chain becomes notchy with age

Clean it and regrease

Watch out for the spring

Yes I think I have the notchy chain issue. Wonder if cleaning and regreasing will help it, hope its not mechanical wear in the chain.

Peter De Smidt

18-Feb-2024, 20:10

Did the enlarger come with the manual? If not, you might want to pick one up.

kfed1984

18-Feb-2024, 21:18

Yes it came with the manual from KBH I think.

kfed1984

18-Feb-2024, 21:22

kfed1984

18-Feb-2024, 21:31

Compared to my Saunders/LPL 670 MXL, the De Vere focuses more smoothly. Easier on the De Vere in terms of control and comfort, on the same 6x7 negative.

Peter De Smidt

18-Feb-2024, 21:33

It's really easy to align all of the stages, and in my experience it stays aligned.

Fred L

19-Feb-2024, 13:22

could also be the locking/tensions knobs for the front controls. play around with that and see if that helps. otherwise lube everything that moves haha

interneg

19-Feb-2024, 15:21

experience using the Intrepid LED Head

Remarkably good, with a few mild quirks. More power than an Ilford MG500.

6x6TLL

23-Feb-2024, 21:36

I had one of those and sold it when I moved to the US. It's the Rolls Royce of enlargers. I would definitely pick it up, you can find all the missing bits and get it back to working order, it is the most stable, versatile and ergonomic enlargers ever made. (Can you tell I miss mine :D).

It would be a big step up, but you'd need to find the missing parts and give it some TLC first.

That's an enlarger for life, you'll never need anything else.

Tin Can

24-Feb-2024, 06:18

Clean the notchy chain

I rode only Brit Motor Bikes for decades

They used the same sticky grease

Use modern modern grease

The chain will be fine if clear\ned thoroughly in situ

kfed1984

24-Feb-2024, 17:45

Well my model does not have a chain, it's got cables, per my previous posts. The issue was the notchy bearings, which I loosened and lubed, but did not grease.

Focusing is good now, better than my LPL 6x7 enlarger, which is a fine machine.

I also have an Omega D2 and a Besseler 23, which I will be getting rid of, as I think I found now what I want to keep.

The good thing about this purchase was the relatively good cost, $1500 USD, with 3 good lenses, 2 neg carriers with 35mm 6x6 6x7 4x5 masks with AN glass, and a spare set if dichroic filters.

The bad thing is that the plastic CMY color disc scales have been melted by the dude who sold me the enlarger. I think he did not mention it intentionally and I found it at home. Probably the fan broke down at some point and they melted away. Not so much melted but deformed.

So I bought a sheet of translucent plastic, and I will end up machining new discs, printing the scales on a transparency and sticking them onto the new discs. Which is a bit of a pain.

But overall I do not feel like this was a loss or an impulsive purchase, which I am very prone to. Also the white board that came with the enlarger was a DIY thick piece of plywood which I will trim down, sand, varnish, and apply a rubber guard to around the perimeter. That's why there's no board in the picture.

247091 247090

Mick Fagan

24-Feb-2024, 22:23

I have the free standing version of this enlarger, so I'm unsure if the baseboard mounts the same way, but on my enlarger the baseboard is mounted by four independent and very adjustable bolts with a locking nut and they hold the baseboard up, each with a flat circular top. I have seen one very secondhand DeVere enlarger with a solidly mounted, but non adjustable, home made baseboard. The owner purchased the correct mounts from England, very expensive, but he was glad he did.

In the head the little white lead that sends power to the enlarging globe is a simple two pinhole piece of ceramic/porcelain material, rectangular in my head. The little pin holes where the lamp pins slide in, are prone to bad contact. If in doubt, replace the ceramic/porcelain piece and its short lead, an inexpensive piece of equipment which gives quite a bit of grief until you diagnose the issue.

The switch on the top right of the head, turns the backlight for the filter settings on and off, I don't believe the backlight would have enough heat to melt the plastic. Perhaps the enlarger was left on for a very long time one day, it can happen in an industrial environment, it shouldn't but it does.

You'll love this enlarger once you have it perfectly aligned, something which is possible with these units, and unlike almost anything else out there.

Tin Can

25-Feb-2024, 07:27

The 504 I have has long and short knobs

The short is wall mount the long is bench

richydicky

25-Feb-2024, 10:47

Anyways, the notchiness came from dry ball bearings on the focusing stage carriage. I removed the bearings and lubricated with automotive oil. Though it should be grease.

The old grease has dried out and the balls were notching into the bearing race probably.

I did not tighten the bearings as much now and the issue is gone, it focuses smoothly.

I'm setting up my 504 now, acquired two years ago, now I have space. I was looking to the do the same but it seems that your model has completely different bearing assembly where the bearings are mounted on a separate block that can be removed from the focusing stage whereas on mine and what I have seen in the manual, the bearings are part of the stage unit. I managed to unbolt one bearing but it is tricky to remove and doubly so to replace. There is just enough wiggle of the stage to do it but reluctant to try on the others. Maybe yours is a later model. I have the DVB desk model.

Oh, I washed in it paraffin and was surprised by the amount of grit and dirt that came out. Re=packed with grease.