What Heliar for Portrait Work?

[Hugo_6476]

I really need some advice here. I have a few Dagors and Artars for landscapes. Now I want to try some portraits. I have been thinking if Heliar is a good choice. From what I read, Deardorff can't take a 420mm Heliar due to the huge size of that lens. Is it practical to buy a 300mm or 360mm Heliar and mount it into a shutter? If so, which one is a better choice? Should I consider using a 5x7 reducing back for the 300mm one if the 360mm is too big for the Deardorff? I have seen amazing portraits of Heliar lenses. Thanks.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

The 360 won't fit into a shutter, at least not at full aperture. The 300mm Heliars were frequently factory mounted in no.5 Compounds.

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/img/info/voigtlandera/p3.jpg
From: www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/voigtlandera/p3.html (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/voigtlandera/p3.html)

I suspect you could easily use a 360mm Heliar for 8x10 portraiture.

[Charles Hohenstein]

The chart is extremely interesting. So a 420 mm Universal Heliar will not cover 11x14?

[Hugo J. Zhang]

Thanks for the information, JG. I have no problem using a dagor in barrel at f/64 for long exposure using a lens cap and a stop watch. But how do I learn the tricks to shoot a 360mm Heliar in barrel at f/4.5?

[Jim Galli]

I love my Deardorff to death but it is what it is, a field camera. It won't be happy with a 36cm heliar up front. And they don't lend themselves very well to packard shutters. There is an accessory packard attachment for Deardorff's but it only aggrevates the problem of putting a heavy lens farther out past the front standard's axle. Consider a dedicated "portrait" camera. I have a Kodak 2D that I used in the field for these portraits. (http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/505494.html)

It easily handles a host of large portrait types including long petzvals and a 36cm Heliar. It has a packard behind the front standard inside the camera that is ready and waiting for whatever barrel extravaganza I hang up front. It would likely tolerate the 42cm Heliar but that is approaching the limits of a "field portrait camera" and is better suited to a big Century on a stand.

Here's (http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22200) a post I did about how to get fast shutter speeds in sunlight with barrel lenses and no Packard. Done in fun, but it actually works quite well.

Actually the old Kodak has sort of supplanted the Deardorff. It's just pretty versatile for what I like to do. My quick kit will include Cooke series XV convertible, a 45cm APO Skopar in barrel, a 8 1/2" Protar VII, and a couple of portrait types. Usually a Wolly series A f5 8X10 petzval and the Heliar and / or the P&S I used the other day.

Finally, coverage for portraiture works differently than we normally think. Since you need to basically focus close in to fill your frame, most any 12" and longer lens will work well. The 13" P&S lens became a 25" lens for those head shots. It would have covered 14X17 at that length but the head would be the same size. Filling the 8X10 but using only about 40% of a 14X17.

[Armin Seeholzer]

Hi Jim

Why should a Deardorff not be happy with a 360mm Heliar on it, when even my Burke & James can handle it? I also have plans to use my 610 APO Nikkor on it, and of course with an improved form of a Jim Galli shutter.
In studio I prfer the Universal Heliar in front of my Sinar P and shutter behind the lens!
My Universal is only about 2.8 kg if I remember correctly!
But I know the Nikkor is not so heavy!
Good luck!

[Armin Seeholzer]

And the 360 Universal covers 8x10 easy at Portrait distances!

[Hugo J. Zhang]

Thanks, Jim, Your portraits is an inspiratin! I will try to sign up Per's next workshop. I need a few boxes of films to start my exercise to get that 1/4, 1/8, up to 1/250 second right on the dot. Since 30cm Heliar can be mounted on a compound shutter, I am thinking whether I should play it safe by using a 5x7 reducing back and a 30cm Heliar. But on the other hand, I do want to try 8x10 portraits, especially after seeing your portraits.

[Jim Galli]

Thanks Hugo. A 30 cm Heliar would have worked just fine on 8X10 for those portraits. It's also a good choice for the Deardorff. Infinity coverage is a non issue when doing portraits. A bit hard to find in shutter and likely priced accordingly.....but worth it. Try to find a post WWII coated one.

[Hugo_6476]

Hi Jim, I actually have an offer at hand for an old 8x10 Kodak 2D with a Wollensak 20" Raptar lens. What do you think of that lens for portrait? Now I need to know where I can get a Packard installed behind the front standard like yours. Any place to recommend? I have never used a Packard before. Thanks.

[Arne Croell]

Hugo, with respect to the "can be mounted" in your previous post. The 30cm (and shorter) Heliars did come in shutters, this is right (300mm in a no. 5 Compound 240mm, in a no. 4, 210mm in a no. 3, 180mm in a Compur 2, 150mm in a Compur 1). The barrel versions of the same focal lengths, however, are not necessarily a direct fit into a shutter, and no 5 shutters have not been made for a long time. So it is either a packard or similar (like the Voigtländer Zettor shutter in fron of the lens) for a barrel version, or getting one that was shuttered from the start.

[Hugo_6476]

Thanks, Arne! I have just bought that 2D Kodak as my dedicated "portrait" camera. I will get a 36cm Heliar in barrel and put a Packard shutter behind the front standard and get this thing going!

[Jim Galli]

Hi Hugo. Sorry I didn't check back sooner. When you get the 2D holler and I'll take some pictures of my "Packard" installation for you. It's really extremely simple.