Best equivalent for Ilford Pan F in 4x5?

[John Brownlow]

What's the closest film to Ilford Pan F available in 4x5? It's not so much the speed/grain as the tonality, which I love and is quite unique.

[Andre Noble]

Ilford Pan F in a roll film back.

[John Brownlow]

[sound of fingers tapping]

[Tom Hoskinson]

Try Efke/Adox PL 100, not as fine grained as Ilford Pan F Plus, but it has great tonal rendering capability. I shoot it in 8x10, 5x7 and 4x5, (and 120 roll film).

Efke/Adox PL100 really sings in Pyrocat-Hd

[John Brownlow]

oh, thanks, I was hoping someone would recommend Efke. What about the 25/50, any advantage going slower?

[ramin]

TMAX 100 in XTOL 1:3 develope for 17 minunts (but do a test for developing times for yourself)

[Ed K.]

Hi John,

You didn't mention how you have been processing your Pan F. When I've tried various development options with it, it could have more than one look, however most of the time, it had a smoth and long scale, but mostly super fine ( what grain? ) grain. You also didn't mention which aspects of the tonality you like in Pan F, a great film indeed.

Perhaps you are a traditional film fan. I second Efke 100 for color to B&W rendition and great options to control its contrast range with development/exposure. If it isn't the accuracy of color rendition, but instead the creamy smooth and subtle grays of Pan F done right, I love Efke 25 or 50. Sometimes the smoothness of tonal rendering indeed comes from fine grain as both Pan F and Efke 25 have. I shoot both Efke 25 and Efke 100 in 8x10 and love it. While no match for Pan F or slow Efke films, Acros 100 pull processed has some nice mid grays ( shoot at 32 and underdevelop ) in a pinch if a quick loading solution is needed. If you haven't tried the Efke films, you might end up liking them even more than Pan F for their own character. Nice to have the little black sheets between each film in the box on 8x10 at least. Beware Efke 100 when processing, it can get grainy even though the shape of that grain can be nice, the Efke 25 is much finer grained in general.

[John Brownlow]

At the moment I am getting it dunked in a replenished Tmax line at Steichen here in Toronto... they do a great job and don't nuke it like some places.

[John Brownlow]

I am totally a trad film fan. I can't get on with the T-grain films like Tmax and Acros (and I've tried). The midtones are so boring. So I guess what I like about Pan F is the shape of the shoulder and toe, and the interesting midtones.

[Ed K.]

You need to try the Efke films then. Maybe not the same exactly, but enough to take away the pangs for something like Pan F the way you're talking about it. Best deal is to process yourself, even if that means a tray or an HP Combiplan in the bathroom. The Efke films respond very well to different processing/exposure combinations. I love the skin tones that the Efke films will do.

When I shoot Efke 25 or 100, I treat them differently and always think of how I will develop them when I'm shooting (doesn't everybody do this?). People say Efke sings with Pyro, which is true, however some kinds of things look great with Rodinal. Efke films are pretty true to their rated speed in my experience, unlike some of the modern films. To push a bit, DDX works well. In Pyro, it's easy to make negs that only print best on very soft contrast paper or alternative process. I made some Pyro negs on Efke 25 that print best on POP paper. This doesn't sound like what you want. Try some more diluted regular developers to start - you'll probably be delighted.
My local B&W lab uses Clayton Extend and tells people that they use XTOL - whatever the case, it's like extreme pull processing, and they produce negs will little contrast and density. Efke filmes don't seem to like that type of setup much. I have not tried Efke films in TMax or HC110, because I liked the possibilities of Rodinal, D76, Pyrocat and DDX so much I haven't wanted anything else enough to try it. Perhaps someone else might comment on other development options that make Efke films sing.

[Tom Hoskinson]

Yes John, I also shoot Efke 50 and Efke 25.

Efke 50 is very similar to Efke 100 - just slower.

Efke 25 has long been one of my favorite films, but it takes some testing and "getting used to." Results with Efke 25 are sensitive to the developer and development procedure employed. Obeying the admonition to "Expose for the Shadows and Develop for the Highlights" is pretty much a requirement for Efke 25.

Efke 100 and Efke 50 are reported to work well with a variety of developers. Kodak X-TOL would probably work well, for example.

I mix my own developers and my personal favorite with all three of these Efke films is Pyrocat-HD.

However, I've also used Rodinal and Crawley's FX-2 with good results.

[Jim_3565]

The closest thing in terms of tonality to Pan F in a sheet film is 400TMax. Develop it in a gentle, soft working developer like Harvey's (something with glycin in it) and you'll turn all the midtones from gray to silver.

[Ron Marshall]

I haven't tried Pan F, but FP4+ is great.

[julian_4860]

John, these are all efke 25 in rodinal (apart from the top row)
www.foundobjectsgallery.com/green/index.htm (http://www.foundobjectsgallery.com/green/index.htm)

here are some pan f tests, rated at 25
www.foundobjectsgallery.com/panF/ (http://www.foundobjectsgallery.com/panF/)

[Remigius]

how about rollei r3 or fomapan 100, has anybody used one of these?

[Tom Hoskinson]

"how about rollei r3 or fomapan 100, has anybody used one of these?"

I've used fomapan 100 and fomapan 200T. Both films can produce nice images - if you get a good batch of film...

Foma Quality Control leaves something to be desired IMHO.

I have not tried rollei r3

[paulr]

"I can't get on with the T-grain films like Tmax and Acros (and I've tried). The midtones are so boring."

this probably has to do with how the film is being developed. tmax midtones can be pushed around to look like just about anything.

if you're only interested in using a commercial lab, then that unfortunately limits your choices. especially if they use t-max developer ... i never thought it was an inspiring combination, even though presumeably they were designed for each other.

[Tom Westbrook]

I agree with paulr on the TMX mid-tone thing. Using a warmer developer temperature of 24C seems to help, too. I mostly use either dilute Xtol or Tmax RS 1:9 at 24C in a Jobo for around 7 min and am pleased with the results. I used to use Xtol 1:1 or D76 1:1 @20c and felt the mid's were too flat, too.

[Richard Kelham]

The Efke films seem to have a slightly softer emulsion so beware of scratching it. Otherwise very good traditional films.

[Don Wallace]

I am getting more intrigued by Efke because so many people seem to like it. My main developer is HC-110 but, given the combinations cited above, I am guessing I should try something else with Efke. Also, does anyone have development times for the various Efke films in a Jobo (just as a starting point)?

[John Brownlow]

I should probably pull out my reels and tanks... I bought out a commercial lab recently and got all their stainless steel 4x5 tanks and hangers as well as lots of 120 stuff... it needs a dedicated darkroom though which will have to wait until the new house is built...

[Colin Robertson]

Ahh! This has been my biggest heartbreak recently. For the last ten years I have shot almost nothing but PanF in a mamiya TLR, developed in dilute Paterson Acutol (I like to buy British. Can't help it). This film really is just beautiful- smooth, grainless, luminous blah de blah. Anyhow, having hankered to try LF for years I recently bought a 5x4 field camera, and the obvious choice of film was Fp4. My first results made me think I'd made a big mistake. To my eyes, 120 Panf looked smoother and finer! As soon as I got over the urge to cry I set about getting my film speed and dev times sorted, and recently produced my first really satisfying 5x4 negs. BUT- I'd still sell my goddam soul for a few boxes of the Beloved Orange One in sheets . . . by the way, Ilford web site has news of a new selenium toner. Always used Kodak RST, but lately I haven't much felt like I could depend on Kodak. Real, real shame.

[Tom Hoskinson]

"I can't get on with the T-grain films like Tmax and Acros (and I've tried). The midtones are so boring."

"this probably has to do with how the film is being developed. tmax midtones can be pushed around to look like just about anything. "

"if you're only interested in using a commercial lab, then that unfortunately limits your choices. especially if they use t-max developer ... i never thought it was an inspiring combination, even though presumeably they were designed for each other."

I certainly agree with paulr about Tmax, it is a beautiful and versatile film.

I shoot as much Kodak TMAX TMY as Efke.



My favorite developer for Kodak Tmax TMY is Pyrocat. Recently I have been testing TMY, TMX, Efke 100 and Efke 25 in Sandy Kings new version of Pyrocat. (16 minutes of Semi-Stand agitation at 71F).

Sandy calls the new developer Pyrocat P since it incorporates p-aminophenol (the p-aminophenol replaces the Phenidone in the -HD version). I found that Pyrocat P gives superb tonality and high acutance with all four of these films. Other Testers have reported excellent results with Pyrocat P and continuous agitation.

[Donald Qualls]

I've used Fomapan 100 in both 9x12 cm sheets and 120 (and cut down from 120 to smaller, discontinued sizes), and I like it enough to keep buying it. It's happy in HC-110 (despite the "not recommended" in the 120 box -- more dilution, less agitation, and it's all good), Caffenol, and Parodinal (which last implies it'll be happy in Rodinal as well) -- even Diafine at EI 200. IMO, it's one of the better bargains going, and there are two sources in this country: J&C Photo, who have it in 9x12 cm and recently added 4x5 as well as 120, and Freestyle, who have it as Arista.EDU Ultra 100 in 4x5 and 120 (both have 35 mm, too, but that's not what this forum cares about, mostly).



I don't think there's much likelihood of mistaking it for Pan F if you make *huge* enlargements, but if you print at reasonable sizes from large format negatives, you might well find it works for you.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Kawee%20Camera/th_47594f62.jpg (http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/dqualls/Kawee%20Camera/47594f62.jpg)

Above example is 9x12 cm, through a 1935-ish Radionar, processed in HC-110 Dilution H (I now prefer Dilution F for most things).