building a copy/digitizing stand out of Sinar parts

[abruzzi]

Is that crazy? I was looking at copy stands, and the one thing I really can't tell online is how rigid a ~$500 stand is. I like to think it would be ok, but rigidity is one of the most critical features, adjustability, is the other big one. It occurred to me with the table clamp that Sinar made, an 18" + 12" extension, a P2 rear standard, and a camera mount to attach a DSLR to the standard, I should have a fairly rigid, and very adjustable rig for DSLR scanning. I especially like the idea of being able to fix any small keystoning caused by misalignment by using the tilt and swing adjustments on the standard. Currently I've done those fixes digitally, but doing it in camera seems a better idea.

On the other hand, I'll end up spending more than $500 on the pieces I don't already have. Has anyone used Sinar parts to build a digitization workstation?

[Drew Wiley]

That should be easy to do. But you'll need some extra support to the rail section column, ideally with more than one rail clamp. I've done it in the past, though now have a deluxe copystand integrated into a Durst L184 chassis.

[Peter De Smidt]

Something to think about: https://petapixel.com/2022/06/11/how-to-build-a-diy-t-rex-stand-for-macro-photography/?fbclid=IwAR0-j08owoyuTI4n5ijScvukUAImdUsPq4KZ_fjOlSUoiUb5049JMYqdtFw

I have lots of Sinar parts....What you'd want to do it get the copy stand rail... But.....This isn't really what these parts were meant for. It wouldn't be that hard to make something more stable and easier to align. I've done it a couple of times. If I can do it, you can too.

[Drew Wiley]

Slot track systems aren't really all that precise, convenient, or stable unless you dramatically up the price to serious liner motion components and their own kind of gear options. If slightly large prints need to be copied, up to 20X24 or so, take a look at Glennview's site and a L138 Durst chassis conversion. Even the venerable old Bencher copystands were flimsy sloppy toys compared to that kind of option. I should know, since I started out with the largest Bencher system to begin with, long ago, and had to seriously alter and reinforce even that to make it truly practical. And decent L138 chasis do sometimes turn up minus a head at reasonable pricing. Takes a bit of patience and luck, however.
Decent copystand lighting is a somewhat more involved topic, and I wouldn't take it for granted, especially given recent options.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51824658184_1acf26cc42_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mXyVko)Sinar Norma 8x10 Overhead Reflex Rig (https://flic.kr/p/2mXyVko) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Made with all original Norma parts obtained cheaply. It's solid enough, no issues, supports my 8x10 Norma, so it will support a P Rear Standard no problem. I leave this camera set up. I screwed together two sheets of 1/4" good quality and it's more solid base with the Norma Clamp. I tried two rail clamps, but ended up going back to one. Easy to adapt to your situation. Really not much to not like about this setup, if I didn't like it, I would take it down. I also use the modern Sinar attachment that allows attachment of smaller cameras, like my Makiflexes. I have a lot of FOBA grip stuff and lots of lighting too.

I had the biggest Bencher and that ended up in the trash. Didn't hold up well over time. Norma is fine for what it is. I'd buy a complete P camera (very undervalued), and then convert the rear to the smaller format, the microdrives in the P Standard would be useful to support a digital camera. Do you have a Sinar Pan Tilt Head?

[abruzzi]

What you'd want to do it get the copy stand rail

When you say copy stand rail, do you mean the 36" base rail? I've never actually seen one, plus from what I can tell, they are base rails, and the table clamp looks like it only accepts extensions:

https://kagi.com/proxy/s-l500.jpg?c=V3Q1Ja5YWMDYYHOhb013QbyIy4VZhnrOuOzUTNZ1x8IVbua57BEfO0C3JrnKWIsVtor28X9IjQlpz8j2vXkJnIWSgN6mh5U_Jpq113zuveM%3D

I'm also not really capable of much in the way of DIY. My tests so far are with a not terribly stable Pentax copipod, and that is around 18 inches high, so an 18 inch extension is probably enough, but if not, I have several 6 and 12 inch extensions. This would be used most with 4x5 but also some 5x7 and 8x10, but nothing larger, so I don't need significant height. I can see the benefit to rigidity of clamping the top of the rail to a wall, but I don't think that in the cards at at the moment, and the copy stands at B&H don't have anything like that either. Probably my biggest concern is how rigid that clamp above will be.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51824918486_c195dcc821_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mXAfHm)8x10 18x24 Sinar Norma Overhead Shooting Table 165 Norma SA (https://flic.kr/p/2mXAfHm) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50316146541_5ed844107a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jEgpnX)Maki Std Copy Test Shades 180mm F3.2 GX680 (https://flic.kr/p/2jEgpnX) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

[Peter De Smidt]

When you say copy stand rail, do you mean the 36" base rail? I've never actually seen one, plus from what I can tell, they are base rails, and the table clamp looks like it only accepts extensions:

https://kagi.com/proxy/s-l500.jpg?c=V3Q1Ja5YWMDYYHOhb013QbyIy4VZhnrOuOzUTNZ1x8IVbua57BEfO0C3JrnKWIsVtor28X9IjQlpz8j2vXkJnIWSgN6mh5U_Jpq113zuveM%3D

I'm also not really capable of much in the way of DIY. My tests so far are with a not terribly stable Pentax copipod, and that is around 18 inches high, so an 18 inch extension is probably enough, but if not, I have several 6 and 12 inch extensions. This would be used most with 4x5 but also some 5x7 and 8x10, but nothing larger, so I don't need significant height. I can see the benefit to rigidity of clamping the top of the rail to a wall, but I don't think that in the cards at at the moment, and the copy stands at B&H don't have anything like that either. Probably my biggest concern is how rigid that clamp above will be.

Sorry. I mean the piece that you're showing with an added extension rail.

[Peter De Smidt]

Speaking as someone who's done a lot of work on digital camera scanning.....the stability and alignment needs for scanning are much higher than for traditional copy stand work.

[abruzzi]

yeah, I've had great luck with 35mm because there is an easy turnkey solution--a macro bellows with slide copy attachment. This is a little more challenging. I get from Daniel's photos above that the Sinar setup should be able to hold some weight! Way more than my little Pentax K-1ii. But I get that sensoe size (8x10 vs 24x36mm) has a big impact, as may other issues like the Bayer filter array. The table clamps on eBay were ~$200-250, but a cheap one just popped up so I bought it. I think I'll test this piecemeal. I have a P2 so I can borrow a standard. All I'll need is a cheap camera maount. Then if I get decent results, I can invest in the other pieces, and maybe something to clamp from the top to add rigidity if needed.

[Peter De Smidt]

That's great! I hope it works out for you.

[abruzzi]

the parts are on their way, I was actually able to find the two key parts I don't have--the table clamp and the camera mount (to mount the DSLR to the P2 standard)--for cheap prices from dealers in the UK. So it will be a bit of a wait, but I should be able to report sucess or failure in a few weeks. If it works well, then I'll get it a dedicated standard, and I'll actually be pretty cheap on the total setup. If it doesn't work, I'll have wasted maybe $150 on parts that I may find another use for or sell.

[Peter De Smidt]

I don't see any reason why it won't work. Whatever you go with, there will always be something better (and likely more expensive or inconvenient) that you could've done. "Perfection is the enemy of the good." Often attributed to Voltaire.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I can hang mine straight down, clamping to the floor joists for longer distance shooting :) Haven't done this yet but it's doable in my situation

[archphotofisher]

I also have been looking for a copy stand to set up my GFX 100 to digitize my 8x10 negatives off a LED light box. When I read this thread I remembered doing this years ago with the 4x5 on my tripod.
The only thing one has to worry about is getting the film plane and the art being photographed center and parallel/perpendicular to each other.
228183

[Peter De Smidt]

And vibration.....

[Drew Wiley]

Maybe not a saying of Voltaire, but "vibration is the enemy of decent results". When in doubt, ALWAYS overbuild. And always solidly anchor any kind of column at BOTH ends. An efficient copystand does not resemble a bouncy Pogo stick.

[abruzzi]

I get the idea of anchoring both ends—absolutely it will provide better results, but the less elevation of the camera from the anchor point at the base equals less leverage of the camera to vibrate the column (if we’re misquoting historical figures, remember archimedes—give me a lever and a place to stand, and I can move the earth…). That why my initial plan will be to use the 50mm macro instead of the 100. If that produces sub-optimal results I might be able to do something like archphotofisher’s photo to use a tripod to temporarily anchor the top, but at the moment, anchoring to a wall isn’t an option.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Well you've got a lot of possible options, some are yet to materialize. Put it together, and give it a go. I'm doing 20+ pops of my strobes, and clicks of shutter in some cases, without any bad effects so far. So it's a stable overhead rig. Otherwise I would change it around :)

[Tin Can]

I use an old 20X24 copy sheet metal painted grid

I can shoot a DIGI and adjust alignment easily

Then I put down a matt white paper and start adjusting light

I like a short zoom for various sizes

[archphotofisher]

I do have a 10 lb lead trolling sinker I hang on the tripod center.

Peter is right about vibration I got the 10# lead ball when I was photographing office interiors late at night, it was amazing the floor in highrises vibrate as much as they did, I found adding the 10# helped.

[Bernice Loui]

Or use strobe/flash which can cure vibration set up issues to varying degrees.
The microscope folks will apply longer exposures to reduce the effects of vibration as needed. Same longer exposure technique can work and be applied here.


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

I certainly hope some of you never apply for a job as a building inspector! I't so darn easy to seriously stabilize a stand that I can't figure out why that option is even being debated.

[Peter De Smidt]

I certainly hope some of you never apply for a job as a building inspector! I't so darn easy to seriously stabilize a stand that I can't figure out why that option is even being debated.

Yes!