de Vere 5108 enlarger 'control box' and neg holder

[Tim V]

Kia ora all,

Recently I came into the care of a de Vere 5180. It has seen better days as has been in storage, but things look good overall and after spending time calibrating it I reckon it'll be perfect.

However...

It's missing two crucial parts, and living in New Zealand it may prove difficult to get over this hurdle.

Firstly, the negative holder is broken and more crucially, it's missing the power control box – the former is small enough to perhaps source internationally, but the latter I understand as being rather massive and heavy – not to mention voltage differences.

I'm wondering if anyone out there could give me some advise as to where to look for these parts, or offer any kind of workaround for the control box or even schematics as to how to build one – I'm lucky to work in a university with an electrical engineering department that might be able to help for minimal $$$.

Basically, any advise would be awesome. It's tough in New Zealand, as this kind of equipment is super rare. What is left here, people hang on to and use. Or, worse case, people have long thrown out due to lack of people knowing the real world value of what they have.

Thanks in advance for any help people can offer!

Tim

[MartyNL]

This is the place.
http://odyssey-sales.co.uk/

[Mick Fagan]

When you say the negative holder is broken; what exactly is broken?

Any chance of a picture?

[ic-racer]

I believe the 5108 is a fully mechanical enlarger that requires no electronic supply or control box.
If the light source mounted on the enlarger is non-function due to lack of parts, you might consider getting a new, fully functional light source.

[Phil Hudson]

You should try Paul Petterson at SDS Darkroom for the Devere 240v control unit. He has sold these in the past. I assume you can use this control unit on a 230v supply but might be wrong. As far as I know you don't have to use the huge 1.5kw voltage stabiliser which regulates the line voltage, but there are some advantages in doing so.

[Tim V]

Kia ora everyone, apologies for the delay in my reply – things have been crazy here!
Thanks for all of the replies.

@Mick – the holder is missing the glass and I believe the clips to keep the glass in are broken? The holder is currently stored at a friend's studio so I don't have a photograph unfortunately. It seems straight enough, just not sure if it's worth making or buying a complete replacement unit.

@ic-racer – I think that's where I'm going to have to go with this... A friend has suggested I make an LED head as he's done and will send me some plans. Seems a lot of work to get it done, but also sounds like the best long term option. However, I'd love to get the original unit working to allow the possibility of printing c-types at some point. Hard to get replacement parts in New Zealand, especially considering the cost of shipping these days.

@MartyNL and Phil Hudson – Thanks for the links and recommendations! I'll investigate!

[ic-racer]

Can you post a picture of the light head currently on the enlarger. That would help figuring what is missing.

[Tim V]

228050

Not pictured is the massive power supply (not the control box, which is missing) and the neg holder. Found this while digging through my iPhone images.

[interneg]

Sounds like you have the stabiliser, not the interface/ control box - which is mercifully very lightweight. I'd speak with John Boyce at Odyssey (who are the De Vere successor) regarding sourcing one - and he can supply new carrier glasses (AN or plain) - and most of the small hardware too.

The head wiring is simple, everything runs on 230/240v - the 4x ELH's are paralleled pairs run in series & the fans are on a separate circuit (always on, as soon as you turn on the mains switch). Plugs are standard Bulgin, everything else is essentially standard industrial electrical parts.

[ic-racer]

Thanks for the picture. Sorry for being so stupid, the power supply for that head indeed indicates "Control Box" on the front.
Probably not hard to reproduce with generic components as interneg points out. Certainly easier than reproducing a Durst power supply (which has been done) as the Durst has a lamp pre-heat circuit, 24V shutter timing mechanism, temperature feedback controlled 24V blower power, automatic easel motor control, and of course a regulated 240V lamp supply.

[interneg]

It also looks a lot like the very rare bench setup of the 5108 (i.e DVB) - which limits you to a 240mm lens for 8x10 - most of the bench ones were reportedly sold for photocomp work and the like. Easy to convert it to the wall model (DVW) if need be - or put it on the accessory floor stand (different from the DVF native floor standing type). I went the other way & converted a wall mount pin-reg 5108 into a bench one...

It also has the 500 Analyser system onboard by the looks of it, rather than a timer - you can take the plug from it & rework a suitable timer for the machine - or simply use the plug as a shorting plug for the control box & use a metronome.

[Tim V]

This is what I have…228240228241228242228243

[Tim V]

And this is the stabiliser box228244

[Tim V]

The holder is odd in the sense that it very much seems to be missing glass, as it won’t close flat to hold film tight - there’s a gap.

[Tim V]

This is what I’m missing - photo sent to me by a friend in different city that has one.
228245

[Luis-F-S]

The bottom half of the photo is the contol box. The top half is the timer

[Tim V]

Yes, I know as much as that. No one I've contacted has any parts / info yet. I'm just itching to get this bad boy set up and functional!



The bottom half of the photo is the contol box. The top half is the timer

[Luis-F-S]

Yes, I know as much as that. No one I've contacted has any parts / info yet. I'm just itching to get this bad boy set up and functional!

I have an extra control box but it’s 120 V. Not 240 so it doesn’t help you

[Tim V]

Always the way! haha.

I'll try Odyessy Sales again, as they haven't replied to my query sent a week ago.


I have an extra control box but it’s 120 V. Not 240 so it doesn’t help you

[Duolab123]

Always the way! haha.

I'll try Odyessy Sales again, as they haven't replied to my query sent a week ago.

I would try to get that machine back to original specs. Such a beautiful machine.

[Tim V]

Yes, that's my thoughts too. I would like to print c-types at some point too, so ideally I'd get the colour module thing working as well.


I would try to get that machine back to original specs. Such a beautiful machine.

[John Brady]

I have a 5108, similar to yours, even the color analyzer, which I have never used. Your machine looks like it will be great once cleaned up and you find a power supply. They are heavy but, not so heavy that it couldn't be shipped internationally. I would try to source one through the recommendations already made here. As for the 8x10 carrier, don't loose that, it looks like it is perfect, you should be able to lay an 8x10 negative there glassless. There are inserts for smaller formats that will fit there available for purchase. I have a few of these, one I cut a piece of True View Ultra View (poor mans museum glass) and laid it in the bottom to tape odd format negatives to.

I will get some photos and post them here for your reference.

[Ethan]

Would this work? It's 115v rather than 240, but would it work if you used a 115v circuit and different bulbs? This is an extra one which came with my enlarger when I picked it up. This one has been modified to use some certain voltage stabilizer I don't have, so I've never used it, but if it could be useful to you, I'd be happy to see if I can return it to its original condition
228347


[edit, this is the back, maybe it works with the voltage stabilizer you have? I've not been able to get it to work on its own]
228348

[Tim V]

Thanks again all!

I *think* I have found plans to make my own control box, which an electrician friend can help me with. I'll report back when I've seen progress, or hit a wall – either way, regardless...

I heard back from Odyssey sales and they sell the control box for 350UKP. Not insane for something guaranteed to work and be supported, but the shipping to NZ is what would kill it.

[Tim V]

Resurrecting this thread as I've now found the control box! It was lost in the back of storage and only just found, six months later. Awesome!

Only problem is it seems it was used with a non de Vere timer, or at least that's the timer it was supplied with.

The problem is, I can't see any way to actually connect the timer supplied. I'll attach some photographs with labels on the cables / connections pictured. Am I crazy, or does it look like it won't work being non-OEM?

If I follow the way the cables are actually labelled, I'm left with two unconnected plugs: 1: The voltage stabalizer to pug into mains PLUS, 2: an extra plug coming from the timer with nowhere to go? Surely they don't both need to be plugged into the mains? (Don't worry, not about to try that without first seeking professional advise!)

From a small amount of research it seems the OEM de Vere timer has the same plug as the colour analyser thing this 5108 comes with – which I don't care to use. I'm at a loss...

HELP A DESPERATE PRINTER OUT!!! :-)

T231105231106231107231108231109231110231131

[Mick Fagan]

Hmmm, I have the same era enlarger, only the 504; the ancillary equipment appears to be the same.

I too had some issues, but I made it work by having the 240V controller in your last picture, with both focus and mains switched on.

Once I had the mains on and the focus permanently switched on, I could control the enlarger with my aftermarket timer.

If you need more help, I can delve into the rear of the boxes and what is where. Mine looks pretty much the same as yours as to where each cable and plug goes.

Mine also had the colour option rack out of the left side but unfortunately all of that was stripped off before I received the enlarger.

[Tim V]

Thank you, Mick! Did you plug the timer into an outlet, as well as the voltage stabalizer?
As you see in the pictures above, the stabalizer has a connection to go into the mains, as does the timer.
Thanks for your help!

[Ethan]

that big plug in the center is an 8 pin connection which both sends power to the timer and recieves. If you have an original DeVere timer it should plug right in, otherwise you'll need to make an adapter (like I did). I'm at college currently so can't send you an image of the adapter I made. I think the pinout was listed in the manual, which hopefully someone here can provide (maybe I have a copy I can post, I'll see)

[Tim V]

I don’t have a de Vere timer unfortunately. Looking on KBH they’re really expensive! I see RH Designs options and others for cheaper, but still a lot of money in total.
What a rigmarole!

[Duolab123]

I don’t have a de Vere timer unfortunately. Looking on KBH they’re really expensive! I see RH Designs options and others for cheaper, but still a lot of money in total.
What a rigmarole!

I would ask Kevin Brown at KHB for a bit of free advice. He's been helpful to me, generous in sharing his knowledge. I'm sure that a skilled electrician could figure it out. I'm jealous, that's an amazingly awesome machine. Someone on here has the answer. I really would recommend sending some of these descriptions and photos to Kevin Brown. Best Regards Mike

[Tim V]

Thanks, I’ve sent him an email. Hopefully he can advise on a solution.

[ic-racer]

Not sure of the problem, looks like you have everything to make it work.

[Mick Fagan]

Are you able to get the enlarging light to come on in any one configuration, without plugging the timer into the system?

Essentially I had a similar problem to yours, my breakthrough moment was when I accidently powered the enlarging lamp in the colour head. Once I knew I could get the lamp to light up, I left the enlarger settings as they were and controlled the enlarger via the power input lead; dead simple. It did take me some time to figure this simple step though.

I control the power into the stabilised power supply unit on the input side of the aftermarket stabiliser. The lead coming out of the stabilised power unit goes directly to the enlarger. Been working like that for the last 22-25 something years.

The breakthrough for me was to have the focus switched on, as well as the mains switched on. In your picture you have the Focus switched off.

This is my stabilised power supply, for what its worth.

231152

[Tim V]

Thank you all for your replies, and apologies for the delay in mine – I was out shooting then got sick. Sigh...

I have had some great correspondence with Keven from KHB. Man, what a wealth of knowledge!

Anyway, to paraphrase what he told me for those interested and those stumbling on this thread looking for info:

"DeVere never made a 220/240V version of the 120V timer Interface...

The instruction manual shows how one (with basic electrical skills) can connect a non-DeVere timer. From the photos and details you sent, I think the previous owner has done just that. If I am correct all you need to do is plug the voltage stabiliser into a wall outlet and do the same with the power cord from the Durst timer. Turning on the control box should turn on the fan and panel lamp circuitry of the lamphouse and the “Focus” switch on the control box will manually turn on the lamps (bypassing the timer) or if you turn on the Durst timer it too should activate the exposure lamps with either the focus or timer modes."

Keven went in to more detail about some other things, which was really helpful. I guess I just needed to confirm with someone with his knowledge that this is indeed a normal setup, as it's very different to that of my friend's.

Long story short(ish), I did as Keven suggested and all worked as it should except I must have the focus switch on at all times to use the timer. If it's off, the timer does not work. Seems someone must have wired it so that switch puts the timer in the loop rather than cut it out.

I've got a few more things to problem solve now, which I hope the manual will help with.

One issue is that the negative carrier release does not raise the lamphouse evenly front-to-back, so it's quite difficult to slide the carrier in – the front of the lamphouse sags and slightly obstructs things.

Secondly, my 8x10" glass carrier does not hold the negative in place as there's too much of a gap between the glass sheets. When I lift the carrier to insert it in the head, the negative is super easy to bump out of place.

Lastly, the focus wheel is in need of a bit of lubrication I think. The action is a bit bumpy, which makes fine focus quite difficult.

Other than that, it seem the head is in quite good calibration and things are still square after all these years. Bonus!

If anyone has any tips with regards to the above, feel free to chime in. Otherwise, thanks everyone for your advise and help!

Tim

[Mick Fagan]

Glad that you have the enlarger on worked out. Same as mine, which needs to have the focus switch, switched on permanently.

I'm not sure about your negative stage issue, but the system I've been using for at least the last 30 years, is to hold the negative in place using "Removable Magic Tape".

Even placing 4x5" negatives into a DeVere glassless holder, which holds them quite well, I use removable magic tape to secure them on both of the long sides to the carrier.

I also use removable magic tape for 35mm and 120 enlarging, glass or glassless carriers.

While I agree that the head and negative stages should still be in alignment, I would not think the baseboard will still be in perfect alignment after the moves you appear to have had.

My head and negative stages were pretty much in alignment and I used my enlarger for a few years and was extremely happy with it. All of that changed when I picked up a Salthill alignment tool. I was able to delicately adjust the baseboard so that it was dead flat under the enlarger. The difference was there, subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless.

[Duolab123]

Kevin Brown is a great fellow, he's helped me out more than once.

[Tim V]

Yes, Kevin does indeed seem like a great guy. It's rare to find people such as him who want to share all their knowledge, even if it means less of a sale. It's very much appreciated!

I'm going to research this Salthill alignement tool you mentioned, Mick. Sounds like a good thing to have to keep things in check long-term and make it so I'm not second guessing myself every five seconds.

I think I've solved the issue with the 'sagging' lamphouse making it hard to insert the carrier. The two bolts at the rear of the unit just needed tightening. Simple.

As for the carrier itself, it seems a bit odd the that film is not relatively firmly sandwiched between the two glass sheets. The surfaces must be pretty close, but enough space to make the negative very difficult to keep in place – at least without the tape, as you mentioned. I wonder if this would also mean I'm more likely to get reflections / flare? Either way, I'll think more about it and await patiently the instruction manual from Kevin!

Thanks again guys!

Happy printing!