4x5 Portrait lens recommendation with "classic" look and feel

[formanproject]

Hi there! I'm in the market for a new lens for my 4x5; I'm looking for something in the 210mm range with an aperture of f5.6 or wider.

Ideally, I'm looking for something that has less elements and more of that classic old fashioned look to it, with a rendering similar to the legendary Kodak Aero Ektar f2.8 lens (but not looking to spend more than 500ish, so unfortunately that lens is not in my radar). I see lots of options on eBay, but it's hard to differentiate between all of them since these lenses are rarely reviewed anymore. I also would need a copal shutter since I'm using an intrepid 4x5 camera.

Does anyone have any recommendations? What have been some of your favorite portrait lenses for 4x5 with a less modern and more classic rendering?

Thank you!

[Bernice Loui]

For "sharp" focused portrait images, Kodak f4.5 Ektar or f6.3 Commercial Ektar in the focal length as needed and similar Tessar formula (Zeiss Tessar, Schneider Xenar, Fujinar and many others) lenses. Taking aperture from full aperture to no smaller than f16.

For Sorta Focus ("soft focus") Kodak Portrait Ektar, these are nice at f8.

More important than just the lens, lighting is IMO by FAR the more significant aspect of portrait images.

Prime importance is expression frozen in the image of the portrait sitter. Combo of portrait sitter expression, lighting should be the top priority aspects of portrait making. Lens choice is an aid at best.



Bernice




Hi there! I'm in the market for a new lens for my 4x5; I'm looking for something in the 210mm range with an aperture of f5.6 or wider.

Ideally, I'm looking for something that has less elements and more of that classic old fashioned look to it, with a rendering similar to the legendary Kodak Ektar f2.8 lens (but not looking to spend more than 500ish). I see lots of options on eBay, but it's hard to differentiate between all of them since these lenses are rarely reviewed anymore.

Does anyone have any recommendations? What have been some of your favorite portrait lenses for 4x5 with a less modern and more classic rendering?

Thank you!

[Mark Sawyer]

My recommendation would be the 9.5-inch Wollensak Velostigmat Series II with the soft-focus adjustment. Versatile with a very classic rendering, though you won't find one in a Copal shutter. That shutter requirement in itself disqualifies most "classic look" lenses.

[Bernice Loui]

Solution to the lens in barrel "problem" became the Sinar shutter about four decades ago.. About zero has changed since then to now.
It was the curiosity and fondness with "vintage" lenses that made using a Sinar shutter de-facto to this day with some exceptions (modern wide angle lenses and similar).

If strobe is used, shutter speed accuracy is of less importance than relying in shutter speed accuracy-precision-consistency than constant light film exposures. Using strobe for portraits tend to upset the portrait sitters expression as portrait sitters are often already stressed from doing a portrait sitting, waiting for that "flash" to go off adds to this stress for the portrait sitter.


Bernice



My recommendation would be the 9.5-inch Wollensak Velostigmat Series II with the soft-focus adjustment. Versatile with a very classic rendering, though you won't find one in a Copal shutter. That shutter requirement in itself disqualifies most "classic look" lenses.

[Mark Sawyer]

Solution to the lens in barrel "problem" became the Sinar shutter about four decades ago...

Agreed, but as the OP stipulated a Copal shutter, I'm guessing he doesn't have a Sinar system.

Another front-shuttered system is the Mentor, though those are sometimes for metric-sized films.

For strobe work, any synchronized shutter would work, even a synchronized Packard shutter. Or if the studio isn't too bright, the old uncover-pop-cover-the-lens trick.

[Bernice Loui]

Another under appreciated option, Packard shutter. These work GOOD for studio portrait images constant or strobe light.
Air bulb or long cable release is a must for portrait images as this allows that important interaction with the portrait sitter. This often under appreciated aspect of portrait image making can make all the difference in the portrait sitter's expression frozen on the still image.

Need for a modern "Copal" shutter IMO, is too limiting for "classic" portrait lens choices.


Bernice

[Bob Salomon]

Solution to the lens in barrel "problem" became the Sinar shutter about four decades ago.. About zero has changed since then to now.
It was the curiosity and fondness with "vintage" lenses that made using a Sinar shutter de-facto to this day with some exceptions (modern wide angle lenses and similar).

If strobe is used, shutter speed accuracy is of less importance than relying in shutter speed accuracy-precision-consistency than constant light film exposures. Using strobe for portraits tend to upset the portrait sitters expression as portrait sitters are often already stressed from doing a portrait sitting, waiting for that "flash" to go off adds to this stress for the portrait sitter.


Bernice

“ Solution to the lens in barrel "problem" became the Sinar shutter about four decades ago.”
Try 6 decades ago. I used it in my studio in the 60s.
The original Sinar shutter was introduced in 1951.

[Jody_S]

If you can fit an older dial-set Compur shutter, the ideal lens (for my portrait needs) is the quite affordable uncoated 210 Xenar.

[Tin Can]

I am a big fan of heavy duty cameras

The Burke James 5+ models of Rembrandt made 1951...both folding and not

I believe they were designed for the many heavy barrel lenses B&J sold from war surplus

There are 2 basic models 8X10 are rare

The 5X7 is better as it also has 4X5 backs and sliders down to 2X3

OE is a synced Packard shutter, with quick release clips behind the lensboard

Additionally the Die Cast GG frame is VERY slow to wear, making 'T' more accurate over years than wood

If you buy one, make sure it has a good OE Packard

I like the 240mm Xenar mine came with

Here is my nice one

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50368549207_31dde74cfc_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jJTYSc)Xenar f4.5 240mm (https://flic.kr/p/2jJTYSc) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Tin Can]

Packard is over 100 years old

and still in business

https://packardshutter.com/

[martiansea]

I second the recommendation for a Packard shutter. I've been using one almost exclusively for the past year, and I'm loving it. Opens up a whole world of cheap barrel lenses, many of which are outstanding quality.
How far back are you thinking when you say "Classic"? 1950's classic portrait looks very different than an 1880's classic portrait. I have an older Schneider Symmar S 210mm/f5,6 convertible that has a very classic 50's rendering look to me; which maybe some people think looks "modern," but maybe not to others. These Schneider Symmars are usually inexpensive. HERE IS ONE (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115283183165?hash=item1ad769c63d:g:jykAAOSwjmtiHZMR&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8Ouecs59Bs3qRnIJfzyDvgtihNlByGtq0ZRWFfn3Bgqf7IZgWEF3r3UQeYOQrBBjVykTJ5lXpQLH%2B2stJLp7%2Fj1BXgtFToQ0niVSs8aea%2FxmfvEsogf3NIBQWSld1ddx%2FzB3kHRqDtOxiqzrdC5mXHy6qbcLZURMu010KJrI0EafmSe3IFps%2FZ7SvLYBM9VqitVAgKmP0R%2BYdnTaxLFH8Y%2FW2tSMHH8Fo%2FOC9aB1jEejjefg%2B3zga1QsTiq9Y8t0hAWqtvMI4P4RhSM9Q%2BkYp3JAyE0tbIUj64uJAkg1hMYdyVzBp%2FkvJo9cBooMtDd2JQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBM0Oe2yaNg)

[Rick L]

Packard is over 100 years old

and still in business

https://packardshutter.com/

and the current owner is a really great guy to deal with-

[maltfalc]

industar-51, or an 8" or 8.5" buhl projector lens. you'll have plenty of cash left over for the separate shutter you'll need.

[jnantz]

hi formanproject

you might look at old folding+box cameras and remove the shuttered lens or front plate. some have great old school lenses that can be used for portraits. my favorite lens for portraits is from a folding camera, probably cost 30bucks, used it for color and b/w, nothing I have ever used even comes close to what this lens did ..

good luck !
john

==. added later --

if you can do something to lengthen your exposure ( over expose on purpose, paper negatives, X-ray film, dry plate, ND filters whatever ) you will have more options. look for something like a rapid rectilinear or a convertible or tessar, or modified petzval, or an ilex seminat and figure out where the sweet spot is .. often times lenses might not be fast but if you can find the spot that the OOF area does what you want or obstruct your lens to disrupt the field of view you don't need fast .. like everything else, takes practice.


Hi there! I'm in the market for a new lens for my 4x5; I'm looking for something in the 210mm range with an aperture of f5.6 or wider.

Ideally, I'm looking for something that has less elements and more of that classic old fashioned look to it, with a rendering similar to the legendary Kodak Aero Ektar f2.8 lens (but not looking to spend more than 500ish, so unfortunately that lens is not in my radar). I see lots of options on eBay, but it's hard to differentiate between all of them since these lenses are rarely reviewed anymore. I also would need a copal shutter since I'm using an intrepid 4x5 camera.

Does anyone have any recommendations? What have been some of your favorite portrait lenses for 4x5 with a less modern and more classic rendering?

Thank you!

[jim_jm]

OP - not sure why you need to have a Copal shutter, as most any lens with a Copal or Compur shutter, or many older shutters like Seiko, Kodak or Ilex should also work with your camera.
One standout lens for me is the Ektar 203/7.7, which is small and light. It's reasonably sharp and well-corrected (4 elements) but single-coated so it has a bit lower contrast than many modern lenses. Maybe not as fast as you're looking for, but still reasonable. Image circle is also fairly generous, enough to cover 5x7.
Have you seen this page (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/portrait-lenses/) linked to the LFF home page? Lots of good recommendations and the info about the 203 Ektar is about 2/3 of the way down the page.

[jp]

You might also look for some Fujinar SC lenses. Often they have a copal3s or shannel shutter. They are good tessar lenses with plenty of iris blades.

[mdarnton]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldarnton/26769483286/

You might also find the thread linked in my Flickr post interesting.

[martiansea]

I also second the recommendation of salvaging a lens from an old folding camera. I have an ancient-looking Cooke with Compound shutter that came from some old Kodak camera. It definitely brings the old-timey vibes and I got some nice keepers with it. Look for some trashed out old folding Kodaks for cheap. Go to ebay, type in "Kodak folding camera as-is" and pick up a funky old lens for $30! Whatever you get, it will likely cover 4x5, and if it doesn't, it will give you some attractive portrait vignetting anyway.

[Exploring Large Format]

Air bulb or long cable release is a must for portrait images as this allows that important interaction with the portrait sitter. This often under appreciated aspect of portrait image making can make all the difference in the portrait sitter's expression frozen on the still image.



Bernice[/QUOTE]

I really like my Fujinars with the Sinar shutter. Any recommendations on getting/making a longer cable release for the Sinar shutter? Agree on the connection to the sitter.

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[FotoD]

Gebr. Schreck Feinmechanik GmbH & Co will make you a Sinar style cable release if you email them. They have standard lengths up to 100cm and can probably make any length you need.

https://www.drahtauslöser.com/SITE/index.html

[Oslolens]

More important than just the lens, lighting is IMO by FAR the more significant aspect of portrait images.

Prime importance is expression frozen in the image of the portrait sitter. Combo of portrait sitter expression, lighting should be the top priority aspects of portrait making. Lens choice is an aid at best.

Bernice

I second the importance of light.

The latest 210mm f5.6 all have
neutral out of focus blur.
You may want to stop down a bit to increase sharpness, then a Compur shutter may have more aperture blades.

I suppose you don't want longer lenses due to bellows limitations.

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