Any Lenses for 14 X 36"?

[Tin Can]

Wondering what is useful for this format

I know Pinhole will be my first lens

My Suitcase Box is coming along, it will be used first for Pinhole

Later I will add a Bellows nose cone

Giving at least 60" extension

[Dan Fromm]

The normal focal length for the format is ~980 mm. 1000 mm elephotos and lenses for aerial cameras don't cover that much.

Process lenses of that focal length typically cover <= 46 degrees. A 1200 -- they're around, not very common -- would probably do.

Wide angles? One of the longer f/14 Ser. VIa Perigraphes might do. Unobtaniun.

[Tin Can]

Thanks Dan!

I have a CARL ZEISS JENA 90CM F9 APO TESSAR, shot it only with 11X14 in Deardorff Studio camera in studio, it needed all 75" of extension at 6 ft target

I also have the 790 mm Reinhart meniscus lens, http://www.re-inventedphotoequip.com/Formats.html

As for not covering the long way, that is fine, as I like dark corners, I can always cut the 14X36" film AFTER processing

but want to preserve all options

including pinhole

Divide to stereo?

[Tin Can]

I also recently bought 500mm meniscus, never shot.....yet

Testing this weekend with 14X17" below is the falloff

http://www.re-inventedphotoequip.com/Data_files/500%20Fall-off.pdf

[xkaes]

Process lenses of that focal length typically cover <= 46 degrees. A 1200 -- they're around, not very common -- would probably do. .

If you've won the lottery.

[Tin Can]

I never play the Lotto

Nor gamble

no games either




If you've won the lottery.

[xkaes]

I like supplementary lenses too, and not just because I can afford them. But since you are not a gambler, a pin-hole or a very long meniscus are your only options. Minolta made a very nice 0.37 -- 2700mm -- but at 72mm it's bound to be dark (f38). But hey, it's faster than a pinhole -- and affordable, if you can find one!

[Vaughn]

I like the idea of cutting the film in half and making ~13" diameter circular images...perhaps using lenses with a little more coverage and using a mask to create the circle (reducing image quality dropping off too much on the edge of the circle).

Edited to add: Reading your posts again, creating stereo images from two 14" diameter circles would be fun. A lot of front shift would be handy if the lens had the coverage, allowing one to take the two images one after the other by keeping the camera still and just shifting the lens from one extreme to the other.

[Bernice Loui]

BIG APO process lenses were moderately common and low cost during the years and time when BIG process cameras were being scrapped. later 1990's was given an entire set of Goerz APO artar process lenses by a shop that did process camera work or Lockheed Aerospace back in the day. They made Semiconductor mask, PCB films and more from graphic films that were up to 10 feet x 8 feet in size then reduce down to the size needed to produce these devices. That set of lenses included a 47 1/2" APO artar which would cover 14"x36" at infinity as it was used to do reductions from those 10' x 8' film reductions. It was during this era when LOTs of these BIG APO process lenses would appear on eBay for not a lot a $..

Then ULF gained popularity rapidly driving up the $ of these BIG APO process lenses. Same happened with Ilex# 5 shutters as many of these BIG APO process lenses got re-mounted into a #5 shutter. These lenses today command LOTS of $...


Schneider was aware of the ULF trend and offered their "XXL fine art" series of lenses..
https://www.badgergraphic.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=332


Having owned and used these BIG APO process lenses in the past, they are significant effort to use and IMO of limited creative image making offerings as 35mm or digital does FAR better at really long tele images.


Bernice

[Daniel Unkefer]

I've had my eye on this one for a while. It would complete my collection of Apo Ronars. I own this era of lenses up to the 790mm F14, paid very little. 1070mm would complete and do it for me. But the cost..... https://www.ebay.com/itm/372403830017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

When I was really young I worked at a local color separation house. The MONSTER process cameras were gathering dust in the the back of the plant, and they had one that was as big as a small house. Perhaps it was used for blowing down IC designs, that makes sense. Always wondered what they were used for?? Making Billboards?? LOL

BTW this lens is only about 3X or so magnification on 8x10 it's not going to have a lot of telephoto pulling power when used with that format.
So for more pull you would have to reduce the back size to 5x7 or 4x5.

[xkaes]

There was a Fujinon A 1200mm f24 on EBAY a while ago for $10,000. I don't know if it sold, but a 600mm C f11.5 just sold for $5,000.

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. Its been a while since anyone asked where to find a 2500/12.5 Apo-Saphir.

[LabRat]

For a convenient pinhole for this large format, you get to use a larger pinhole... Suggesting to take an old, cheap D mount movie lens and remove the glass elements... Then mount barrel on lensboard and use it as a adjustable pinhole...Wide open should at least show a blurry image, but will allow you to frame subject TTL... Then stop down to pinhole size for exposure...

For D mount lens, choose a short FL so barrel is smaller and will allow max IC on film...

Have fun!!!

Steve K

[Tin Can]

Thanks Steve!

Good idea, I have 8mm, 16mm and video movie lenses

I also need to get my box of hardened round steel rule dies

I used them often at the factory

Many sizes

Another thought is testing inside my 40' of shed blackout, using an Elwood horizontally for light




For a convenient pinhole for this large format, you get to use a larger pinhole... Suggesting to take an old, cheap D mount movie lens and remove the glass elements... Then mount barrel on lensboard and use it as a adjustable pinhole...Wide open should at least show a blurry image, but will allow you to frame subject TTL... Then stop down to pinhole size for exposure...

For D mount lens, choose a short FL so barrel is smaller and will allow max IC on film...

Have fun!!!

Steve K

[Greg]

There was a Fujinon A 1200mm f24 on EBAY a while ago for $10,000. I don't know if it sold, but a 600mm C f11.5 just sold for $5,000.

I passed up on acquiring a NOS 1200mm FUJINON-A a few years ago for just a few K... looks like that may have been a mistake.

Consider a 600mm f/11.5 S KangRinpoche. Got mine off an eBay seller from Japan or Korea, forget which. Seller rated it "93% EXC Very good condition with some signs of use". Received and it was in mint condition and like new in its original box with IB. On my 11x14 and I have yet to run out of coverage even with a very generous front rise. I believe that it cost me under 2K a few years ago.

[Tin Can]

Thanks Greg!

My biggest IC

Optic: 153 mm diameter x 790 mm focal length custom ground optical glass lens, meniscus type.



• Bellows draw @infinity focus: 790 mm (31")

• Image circle at Infinity: about 1425 mm (56")

• Image circle at 3m (10’): >1830 mm (72”)

• Weight: 690g, (25 oz.)

[Tin Can]

I passed up on acquiring a NOS 1200mm FUJINON-A a few years ago for just a few K... looks like that may have been a mistake.

Consider a 600mm f/11.5 S KangRinpoche. Got mine off an eBay seller from Japan or Korea, forget which. Seller rated it "93% EXC Very good condition with some signs of use". Received and it was in mint condition and like new in its original box with IB. On my 11x14 and I have yet to run out of coverage even with a very generous front rise. I believe that it cost me under 2K a few years ago.

I tested the 600mm f/11.5 S KangRinpoche a few years ago, in my shutter

I highly respect their products

However I also went only to 11X14

[linhofbiker]

I made a Camera Obscura for my wife's volunteer art class at the local elementary school. I used an old Jeagers telescope objective, not a true APO, that demonstrated what could have inspired painters before the photo age. The lens obviously had no stops and was a doublet. But with such a lens of say FL of more than 1000mm stopped down to pinhole range be worth considering.

[xkaes]

Yes, there are always inexpensive telescopes on EBAY, and frequently at thrift stores -- for next to nothing.

[Tin Can]

That would mean leaving my Fort

I never do that

I want PINHOLE as it won't need a lens

The big SF lenses I have are for comparison

Basically I love Pictorialism in America (https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/pict/hd_pict.htm)

I also like Pinhole focus as none is needed!

I will be able to photograph blind

not blind yet...

Be Pre Prepared and Pre Vision or is that Post Focus

I am happiest tilting at windmills

Too Late for Perfection

:cool:

[xkaes]

I also like Pinhole focus as none is needed!

:cool:

Pinholes have great DOF, but it's not infinite. There still is a point of focus -- just like any lens stopped way down. You can compute that distance based on the size of the hole:

Here are two websites to help you calculate the f-stop of your pin-hole(s) and the focal length(s) that will produce the optimal (i.e., sharpest) results:

http://www.mrpinhole.com/index.php

http://pinhole.stanford.edu/pinholemath.htm

[Tin Can]

I am a constant user of Mr Pinhole

Stanford is a dead link

Thank you


Pinholes have great DOF, but it's not infinite. There still is a point of focus -- just like any lens stopped way down. You can compute that distance based on the size of the hole:

Here are two websites to help you calculate the f-stop of your pin-hole(s) and the focal length(s) that will produce the optimal (i.e., sharpest) results:

http://www.mrpinhole.com/index.php

http://pinhole.stanford.edu/pinholemath.htm

[xkaes]

Here's the STANFORD PINHOLE page from the WAYBACK machine. I guess the student graduated:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180809001804/http://pinhole.stanford.edu/pinholemath.htm

[Tin Can]

xkaes,

Very good data I have found nowhere else

I know modern 'real' f-stops end at f256

I need a chart with ALL real and imaginary f-stops in current practice

or when does doubling begin and end?

Thank you!

ps: I do understand https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Reciprocity-Failure-Compensation.pdf


Here's the STANFORD PINHOLE page from the WAYBACK machine. I guess the student graduated:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180809001804/http://pinhole.stanford.edu/pinholemath.htm

[Tin Can]

Here it is, I missed on my ipad

https://web.archive.org/web/20180716004128/http://pinhole.stanford.edu/ip-fn.html

[xkaes]

xkaes,

Very good data I have found nowhere else

I know modern 'real' f-stops end at f256

I need a chart with ALL real and imaginary f-stops in current practice

or when does doubling begin and end?

Thank you!

ps: I do understand https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Reciprocity-Failure-Compensation.pdf




Here is the f-stop breakdown starting at f16:

f16 - f22 - f32 - f45 - f64 - f90 - f125 - f180 - f250 - f360 - f500 - f720

For other intermediate f-stops, such as starting with f18, just multiply by the square root of 2.

My pinholes are:

75mm (AKA 75mm) f224
88mm (AKA 90mm) f231
118mm (AKA 120mm) f291
151mm (AKA 150mm) f329
185mm (AKA 180mm) f364
234mm (AKA 235mm) f409
289mm (AKA 300mm) f455

[Jody_S]

I think you already have your ideal lenses, a pinhole and the Wollaston meniscus, but Goerz did make the early Double Anastigmat Ser. III up to 35" focal length (later 16.5" as the Dagor). I've never seen or heard of one longer than 24" (not that I was looking), and I imagine they would go for a sizeable price no matter the condition. Also, the Dagor is convertible, so you could use the rear half and diaphragm to get a 'normal' focal length for that format.

The Series IV Dagor was made up to 47" focal length, and there is currently a 47" example for sale on fleabay ($25K).

[Tin Can]

Thanks Jody, not buying anymore lenses no matter how expensive!

I use a Nikkor 610 f9 often on my studio 11X14

This Nikon Datasheet is interesting http://www.savazzi.net/download/manuals/Apo-Nikkor.pdf

In winter I mostly stay in studio so I will see what I see with it

I like the visual nodal graph as I have never seen one before, but have chased them with LF Macro

[xkaes]

Here's a table of f-stops starting at f1 showing full, half, and thirds up to f4000 -- well past most pinholes. Sure, most meters don't go that high, but this might be helpful.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/pinfstop.htm

[Tin Can]

Thank you


Here's a table of f-stops starting at f1 showing full, half, and thirds up to f4000 -- well past most pinholes. Sure, most meters don't go that high, but this might be helpful.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/pinfstop.htm

[ridax]

not buying anymore lenses

Still please feel free to PM if interested in an appropriate 505 mm or 1200 mm.

(Sorry I am not sure if such a post violates the forum rules. Please remove it if it does)

[Tin Can]

We have PMed

I repeat, I am not buying anymore lenses

I also think your post is a LFPF violation that Oren missed

I will be shooting FOR Pictorialism emulation, I may fail...

Here is a PHD Thesis with amazing documentation, good reading

https://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/10023/505/WRussellYoungPhDThesis.pdf?sequence=6&isAllowed=y

[erie patsellis]

Randy, take a look at surplusshed.com. They have numerous longer focal length achromats for reasonable money.

[xkaes]

Here is a PHD Thesis with amazing documentation, good reading

https://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/10023/505/WRussellYoungPhDThesis.pdf?sequence=6&isAllowed=y

Very interesting material, and very helpful.

I don't know if it's my operating system or software, but only about half of the "figures" show up on my computer. All of the text is fine, but lots of the figures are just blank. Perhaps this is intentional.

[Tin Can]

I have searched surplus shed for years

I never find anything usable

That's one reason I bought 2 Reinholds, 500mm and 790mm

http://www.re-inventedphotoequip.com/Formats.html

Show me, but not the whole forum!

Thank you




Randy, take a look at surplusshed.com. They have numerous longer focal length achromats for reasonable money.