View Full Version : New shutters for old lenses?

23-Mar-2006, 12:43
I have a schnieder 165mm 6.8

I was wondering if its possible to buy a new shutter mechanism (like a copal one) with a flash sync and just install the lenses on the new shutter?

Do people ever do this?

Patrik Roseen
23-Mar-2006, 12:53
The schneider 165mm/6.8 came in a Compur#2 shutter so it will not fit into a copal 1 shutter, you probably have to step up to a Copal3 shutter which is very large. You can find information about your lens at the schneider web-site: http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/angulon/data/6,8-165mm.html

The compur#2 came in many different sizes and is not that easy to get hold of. I am myself looking for a shutter for my Symmar240/420 convertible lens which also came in Compur#2 but in a different size than the 165mm angulon.

The answer is however Yes, i.e. people put old lenses in new shutters (but it costs).

Mark Sampson
23-Mar-2006, 13:13
See www.skgrimes.com for an idea of what's possible, and how much it might cost. I had them add flash synch to a Betax shutter a few years back, so they might be able to do that for your shutter as well.

Ole Tjugen
23-Mar-2006, 13:32
The Compur #2 size was in fact standardized, but since it is fairly rare it's been used as a "lump category" for all the non-standard shutter sizes - including all the pre-standardization dial-set Compur shutters.

I have both a 165mm f:6.8 Angulon and a 240/420mm f:5.6 Symmar, and I can assure you the shutters are the same.

The measurements given on S.K.Grimes' website for the #2 Compur are wrong, BTW. They are for one of the "oddball specials".

Patrik Roseen
23-Mar-2006, 13:47
Ole, thanks for updating me because the schneider site has compur II 5/2 for the 165mm and compur II 5/2+3 for the symmar so I have assumed that they were different (without really understanding what the numbers mean). However, I measured the Symmar 240mm lensthread yesterday and it was 45.75 mm - have you measured your lenses or are you guessing ;-)

I also have a tele-xenar 240mm/4,7 with a shutter and my 240/420 5.6 is too small for that shutter. thanks, Patrik

John Berry ( Roadkill )
23-Mar-2006, 14:01
Is the shutter rebuildable? I would rather have the old shutter in good shape than a new copal. One of the things liked about old lenses was the smoothness, which I think personally has to do with the number of blades in the iris. I think the lens might have a different character with a copal.

Jerry Fusselman
23-Mar-2006, 14:12

Sorry, I think you are mistaken about Compur 2. I have 5 or 6 different Compur 2 shutters. Standardized? Gosh no. For example, I cannot use my Compur 2 shutter for my 165mm Angulon on my 150mm Xenotar, and both are different from what my 180mm Xenar f/4.5 requires, and those three are all different from the shutter on my 9.5 inch Gold-rim Dagor. My backup Compur 2 has yet another style of fittings to lens elements. That's five different ones already, and I might have another. Even though many or most of the inner parts of these Compur 2 shutters are the same, the outer threads vary considerably.

Also, I wonder what specific errors you think you found on the website.

Ole Tjugen
23-Mar-2006, 14:45
Jerry, are all those shutters late #2's?

There were at the end only two versions of the #2 shutter: II tube 5, and II tube 6. That's the "II/5+" part of it. The threads on these are different, but any (late) II/5+ somethings have the same thread. I can swap between the Angulon and the Symmar, with no image degradation.

Mind that two lenses of very different age may have very different shutters - like my 180/4.5 Xenar. The threads are different from the II/6 specification. And the 150/3.5 Xenar Typ D is different too, although the mounting threads are the same as the 165 Angulon (I use the same flange for three lenses).

The error on the S.K.Grimes site is that the stated #2 is neither of these.

Shutters can be repaired, and in my opinion should if it's cheaper than a new one, unless practical reasons suggest otherwise (like needing even more special lensboards).

Jerry Fusselman
23-Mar-2006, 15:06
Ole, how do you define "late" in this context? Is it appearance? Serial number? Something else?

Michael S. Briggs
23-Mar-2006, 22:42
It simply isn't true that Compur #2 shutters are standardized. I have two and they have different threads, as I have posted before. Jerry has posted that he has several with different threads. One of mine has the threads listed in S. K. Grimes's table (http://www.skgrimes.com/compur/index.htm), so I think it is wrong to call his measurements wrong. Maybe what Ole is trying to say is that the Compur #2 shutters used by Schneider near the end of their production were standardized. The "deviant" Compur #2 that I have carries some Rodenstock lens cells with a serial number from the 1960s.

Jerry Fusselman
24-Mar-2006, 23:15
I found I have a second backup Compur 2 as well, so that makes six unique Compur 2 shutters that I have. I laid all six out in front of me. All have similar finish and labelling, and all go down to 1/200 of a second. All have the same diameter, but all have different threadings. Two are 8xxxxx, and the others are 7xxxxx. Three are on Schneider lenses, one is one a Goertz Dagor, and two are of unknown origin. My owning this variety was not intentional. I wish they were standardized---but they're not.

Additionally to these six, I have a second Angulon 165mm, and its Compur 2 shutter is 7xxxxx; while its younger brother has an 8xxxxx. These elements actually do interchange, so my seventh Compur 2 matches one of my unique six. It is possible that in the last few years of Schneider's use of these shutters they only used a small number of different threadings, but that fact would not help me much.