Refrema Machine Film Developing

[Tin Can]

old thread Refemma 2007 LFPF
Will a Refrema do better than some other C41 processor? (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?30719-Will-a-Refrema-do-better-than-some-other-C41-processor)

New kids Tell all 2022
How Does Film ACTUALLY Work? (It's MAGIC) [Photos and Development] - Smarter Every Day 258 (https://youtu.be/TCxoZlFqzwA)

[Drew Wiley]

They were routinely used around here by the big labs, and known for their consistency.

[Tin Can]

Even Chicago had them

I always wanted to see how one works

Now I have

[Drew Wiley]

Had? (Past tense). What happened? Did Al Capone's boys drive in from Cicero and Tommy gun holes into rival bootleg C41 barrels, or what?

[Michael R]

At one time Refrema was one of the big names in commercial dip/dunk. There are still a few around. The problem is these machines are only as good as they are maintained.

[Drew Wiley]

Same with all machines, Michael. No exceptions. Nothing is foolproof, although it's hard to beat a simple stainless tray for black and white development, at least. All my color sheet film is still being done Refrema.

[sperdynamite]

I'm pretty sure you can still buy new ones. A lab I am familiar with said they did so a couple years ago. Personally I like the new Colenta D&D machine, it has a small foot print and combines B&W w/ C41.

We just bought a 20" Colex RT machine.

[Mark Sampson]

Per my friend Edgar Praus, the Refrema processors are the best on the market. That was a few years back, but I suspect that it's still true. Despite the fact that all the machines in this class are designed for professional use, there are differences in build quality from brand to brand.
Over the course of a long career I've operated and maintained many different film and paper processors. Kreonite, Colenta, Hope, Wing-Lynch, Calumet, Kodak, etc., and there are some that were poorly-engineered and cheaply built. Thus making more work for the technicians and sometimes producing poor results.
Others were well-built and reliable; I suspect that the Refremas fall into that category.
I am very glad to have left all of that behind, though.

[bob carnie]

Refrema Processors were top notch, there was a man by the name of Terry Khan (sp) who would travel North America working on the machines to customize the agitation flow in them, he was legendary in making one of these machines produce even density/contrast development across the entire tank. When I managed Colourgenics here in Toronto we continually won awards with Kodak and Fuji with our control strips that were placed in different positions on the rack and then read at the Manufacturers Labs to see who had a great process control and of course consistent flow of agitation. I was by no means an expert in E6 control , but the owner Charles Chui was IMO the best technician in NA for Process control and we used Terry on a couple of occasions to work on the Refrema. Timeline 1985 - 2000 . Sadly these machines needed film to keep the plots in control and knowing Charles , I suspect the moment his plots were getting impossible to maintain at a very high level he gave it up.

[Tin Can]

Seems to me we may need these machines again

How many dunks per minute?

[Per Madsen]

Made in Denmark (in Hedehusene near Roskilde).

The name Refrema is based on REidel FREmkalde MAskiner (Reidel's Development Machines)

[Tin Can]

My thinking is younger people may design a new one for B&W using all the widgets we can now buy for 3D printers

Many still know how to make SS tanks

I suggest B&W first then let the color addicts expand complication

[interneg]

Many still know how to make SS tanks

Bad choice of material for colour processes overall if there is lengthy contact with the chemistry. There are lengthy discourses from Kodak etc on appropriate material choice for processor design, but lab grade welded plastics would be a smarter solution. The actual technology of dip/ dunk is really very simple (cam/ chain driven - so tank length matters, but you can load hanger after hanger after hanger) - what the Colenta Roboline appears to be trying to do is reduce tank size (to 23L) via using newer drive control technologies (and automated tank lids to enable C-41 & B&W to run in the same machine) but it won't allow for gigantic throughput. It seems likely it'll come in at just under 6-figures cost-wise.

[sperdynamite]

A new design does in fact exist: https://www.colenta.at/php/index.php/color/d-d-roboline-c41-bw-e6

It theoretically can do E6, BW, and C41. I think in practice though just C41 and BW are practical because to run E6 it requires that you drain all the tanks. They cost $75k.

We might get one if we ever move into a new space where we own the building. For now though running RT and Jobo works for us. The 'risks' of RT are generally over stated in the context of the 'risks' of any processor. I've had bad D&D results and bad Jobo results and bad inversion tank results and bad RT results. It just all comes down to the operator and throughput.

[Michael R]

Seems to me we may need these machines again

How many dunks per minute?

I don't think it generally works that way. I think the lift/dunk is just how everything is moved from chemical to chemical and in each chemical the film remains dunked the whole time (agitation by nitrogen burst). They are basically gas burst systems but for high volume and automated process.

[bob carnie]

I don't think it generally works that way. I think the lift/dunk is just how everything is moved from chemical to chemical and in each chemical the film remains dunked the whole time (agitation by nitrogen burst). They are basically gas burst systems but for high volume and automated process.

Micheal is correct on this