8 x 10 Field Camera with the largest amount of front "fall"?

[wallpaperviking]

Strange question I know but am just wondering what 8 x 10 field camera has the largest amount of front "fall"?

I assume that this is purely a physical constraint, given how far the lens board can drop (from being centred with the middle of the rear Ground Glass) to where it generally hits the knob on the bottom of the front standard (that generally locks/unlocks the swing movement)?

Thanks so much in advance! :)

[John Layton]

Not an answer, but additional question: does the entire amount of vertically downward displacement need to be accomplished by the front only...or would an additional amount of rear rise also be acceptable? (If so, you might reframe your question).

[Tin Can]

3 tilts

Front, rear and angle of rail

[wallpaperviking]

Not an answer, but additional question: does the entire amount of vertically downward displacement need to be accomplished by the front only...or would an additional amount of rear rise also be acceptable? (If so, you might reframe your question).

Thanks for the response, much appreciated! Yes, an additional amount of rear rise would also be acceptable..

[wallpaperviking]

3 tilts

Front, rear and angle of rail

Sorry, you lost me on this.. How is this applicable to the question being asked? Thanks.

[Oslolens]

Sorry, you lost me on this.. How is this applicable to the question being asked? Thanks.The next question are, can some of the front fall be accomplished via tilting the bed forward and tilting the standards backwards until horizontal?

Do need the film plane vertical?

Can some of the movements be done with a square lens board with the lens mounted off-centre? -I have my 150mm mounted this way on a full size 6"1/4 Wehman lens board. (Edit: this is necessary due to non-changeable bellows)

And for what focal length are you planning on using?

And the budget? A friend used a cnc-machined Italian.....

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[Greg]

Chamonix 8x10 starts at about 4.5 inches with the front standard in the rear most mounting hole (tilting it back to be parallel with the rear standard) and tilting the rear standard back as far as it will go. Amount of "fall" increases the farther from the rear standard the front standard is. WA bellows a must.

[Tin Can]

This suitcase Horseman can tilt the rail on a tripod

Notice the standards have back and forth markings, meaning tilt

This camera was expensive when I bought it 2013

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50999164915_97723cb215_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/87VPu2)Horseman (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/87VPu2) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr




Sorry, you lost me on this.. How is this applicable to the question being asked? Thanks.

[Doremus Scudder]

I'm not clear on what you need lots of front fall for. Could you enlighten us?

In any case, it pretty easy to simulate front fall by pointing the camera down and then simply tilting the standards back to perpendicular. That, coupled with whatever front fall/rear rise you have should work for all but the most extreme situations.

Another option is to use a lens board with an off-center hole, thus mounting the lens a bit lower than center and providing that little bit more effective fall.

Best,

Doremus

[Bernice Loui]

What are your image making need that required/ demands a field camera with the largest amount of front fall?

More important, what lens focal length is needed for your image making goals? This drives camera choice.

If freedom of camera movement is required a field camera is not a good choice as field cameras trade off camera movement capabilities for lightweight portability. Keep in mind all view cameras are a specific set of trade-offs with none being ideal for all image making needs/goals/demands.


Bernice

[mdarnton]

I knew I'd find a photo somewhere. Here's what people are talking about for front drop via tilting, second photo on the page:
http://ohm-image.net/opinion/photophile/sinaron-digital-macro-120mm-f/56-and-extreme-movements

So the winner in the field camera field would probably be a B&J flatbed, because it has no limit on the tilts, the only limit being the flexibility of the bellows and (more likely) the coverage of your lens. Some other older wooden views without tilt limits would do the same trick, but none are as easy to find as the Burke & James.

[wallpaperviking]

My apologies, I should have been more clear.

I am part of a Facebook group called Digital Camera Obscura and it is basically all about taking a digital image of the projection that is created from a Large Format lens (usually 8 x 10). For me, this is about the shallow DOF you get with such lenses and also the ability to be able to use movements.

I have been tinkering with my version of this for a while but have found it hard to focus, so am thinking that using the Ground Glass of an actual 8 x 10 camera would be ideal. To make this work, I would need to swap out the front lens board for a longer one (hence the question about asking about front fall) and have a secondary hole cut out that would allow the digital camera pointing back towards the Ground Glass. I would also need to have a different bellows made to accomodate this new standard. I would also need to load a dark slide with some paper/material that would show the projected image.

Thats about it really. The digital lens I will be using is a Fuji GFX 32-64mm and is a 77mm filter thread, so I think I need at least 100mm of space..

This may not be possible with a field camera but thought I would check.. I can make it work with a monorail as I can place the rear standard higher and therefore the front standard, to create enough room below.

Hope this makes sense! I know it is not a pure form of Large Format and for anybody who finds what I am doing silly, that is ok with me... Would still like your advice though :)

Thanks in advance!

[Bernice Loui]

Like this?

https://www.diyphotography.net/this-diy-large-format-digital-camera-obscura-shoots-the-most-beautiful-photographs/

If a monorail camera can be made to work for this image goal, why consider a field foldable camera that might not be idea or difficult to modify to achieve these image goal needs?

Given this image goal, it seems idea to make a image system (camera-lens and all related) to meet this specific need.

Give up the idea-belief a field foldable will be lower weight, more portable, easier to set up and more over a monorail, once into 8x10 zero is going to be all previously noted.


This is much about making it work, less about how to get there.
Bernice



My apologies, I should have been more clear.

I am part of a Facebook group called Digital Camera Obscura and it is basically all about taking a digital image of the projection that is created from a Large Format lens (usually 8 x 10). For me, this is about the shallow DOF you get with such lenses and also the ability to be able to use movements.

I have been tinkering with my version of this for a while but have found it hard to focus, so am thinking that using the Ground Glass of an actual 8 x 10 camera would be ideal. To make this work, I would need to swap out the front lens board for a longer one (hence the question about asking about front fall) and have a secondary hole cut out that would allow the digital camera pointing back towards the Ground Glass. I would also need to have a different bellows made to accomodate this new standard. I would also need to load a dark slide with some paper/material that would show the projected image.

Thats about it really. The digital lens I will be using is a Fuji GFX 32-64mm and is a 77mm filter thread, so I think I need at least 100mm of space..

This may not be possible with a field camera but thought I would check.. I can make it work with a monorail as I can place the rear standard higher and therefore the front standard, to create enough room below.

Hope this makes sense! I know it is not a pure form of Large Format and for anybody who finds what I am doing silly, that is ok with me... Would still like your advice though :)

Thanks in advance!

[Tin Can]

If you are younger than 40, just do it all DIGI

There are no extra points for complexity.....ever

I am a novice at age 72, since I did not start LF until 11 years ago, I am both too late for LF AND too late for DIGI

The Image is the message, to paraphrase Marshall McLuhan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message)

I just fiddle about (https://youtu.be/m4pQniAoeX4)

[Rod Klukas]

An Arca-Swiss 8x10 can do a huge fall assuming the lens has the image circle to accommodate such a movement. An indirect displacement, when the base of the camera is tilted forward and both standards are returned to the vertical, will increase the amount of fall available on any camera. Monorail cameras such as Arca-Swiss and Sinar, some others, may allow the most adjustment for This indirect displacement.
The bellows flexibility is also a factor and the extension, determined by the focal length of the lens used, will give you an idea of the possibility.
The reverse is also true in the case of extra rise being required for the image.

[archphotofisher]

my sinar rises quite well and falls depending on your format.
My experience has been I rise my front way more than drop it (fall). Because one would just rise the back up to get more front fall.

Also, you can drop the rail diagonally down to get more fall.

[Drew Wiley]

Front fall is just inverse to rear rise. You can use them in combination if needed. Later model Sinars had way more than I ever needed, even in architectural photography. I even cut off some of the length of my F2 support rods to facilitate better compactness during travel. My "newest" Sinar (actually, a good ole Norma) is just right in that respect; but it's not an
8X10. The only 8x10 I have is a flatbed - still no problem - just diagonal the bed and bring both the front and rear to vertical, in such hypothetical extremes, which I never seem to encounter.

[Jody_S]

Like this?

https://www.diyphotography.net/this-diy-large-format-digital-camera-obscura-shoots-the-most-beautiful-photographs/


Bernice

If this is the goal, any 8x10 field camera will do. Simply take out the ground glass and install an 8"x10" 'lens board', replace the original lens board with a piece of white foam core, and shoot the camera backwards (film back facing the subject). The image will be projected onto an area the size of the original lens board. So something with a 6" square lens board should be workable, like Kodak 2D or B&J folding flatbed.