203mm Ektar Shutter Help Needed

[KingTigerII]

Hey everyone. I recently picked up a 203mm f/7.7 Ektar on Facebook marketplace. It turns out got the short end of the deal. The biggest deal is the shutter. It's the Graphic Synchro-Compur, and the speeds are completely FUBAR. Naptha bath didn't help it, and it needs to go out for repair.

Here's the issue I'm having: It appears to be far more cost effective to replace the lens with a shutter that has PC Sync built in. I just cannot find a shutter. From what I can tell it can take a Prontor 1, Copal 1, or Compur 1. Are there any other possibilities that I'm not aware of?

Any help or advice is welcome, I'm just frustrated beyond belief. I've scoured the search feature on the forums too.

Thanks!

[Chauncey Walden]

I believe the British lenses were compatible with common shutters but the US ones were supplied with Kodak ones. Seems like the Brit ones were marked in some way. Anyone know for sure?

[KingTigerII]

British Marked ones are Mount 370.

[Tin Can]

I have 3 with bad shutters

Previous owners wore them out

Great lens though!

[Dan Fromm]

Here's the issue I'm having: It appears to be far more cost effective to replace the lens with a shutter that has PC Sync built in. I just cannot find a shutter. From what I can tell it can take a Prontor 1, Copal 1, or Compur 1. Are there any other possibilities that I'm not aware of?

Those are the choices. None of the shutters is available new. One relatively cost-effective way to find, e.g., a relatively inexpensive Copal 1 might be to find a relatively unloved lens in one. MIght be. I just took a look on ebay.com, found nothing worth, IMO, chasing. It might be better to return the Ektar for a refund, if possible, and buy a decent plasmat type in shutter. I'm thinking 210/5.6 Fujinon, but these are larger and heavier than the 203 Ektar.

[Tin Can]

I often use a small Packard shutter with DIY sync

This stuff is over 70 years old

Shutters are a big problem as only Packard is still in production

[Bernice Loui]

Fact and reality of these vintage shutters. Consider this Graphic (Re branded Compur) shutter would be about 80 years new, to expect any mechanical device to be properly and fully functional after all those decades without any service or proper care would be absurd. Know the 203mm f7.7 Ektar is an excellent lens in many ways with no modern equal. Knowing and understanding this, the way to address this is to sent the shutter/lens to a properly qualified individual to be Cleaned/Lubed/Adjusted as needed. The solvent bath could have made the problems with the shutter worst as the solvent can and will float around the decades old Gooo all over the shutter innards then leaving a film and their residual Goo in places that is no good at all.

As for shutter interchangeability, yes the lens cells can fit into a# 1 shutter (Compur, Copal, Prontor and ..) long as the original lens cell spacing is matched to within 0.001" of the old-vs-replacement shutter. Any replacement shutter can easily have the same "Fubar" shutter speed problems as the current Graphic-Compur shutter. This points again to the reality of getting a know good shutter by testing before ownership, or sending the shutter out for proper CLA which is a wise investment into any lens to be used on a view camera and produce predicable results. Another trade off with these older Graphic-Compur shutters -vs- modern-new, the modern shutters do not have a round iris. This might be important of out of focus and into out of focus rendition is important to your image making.

The flash sync socket is a Kodak bayonet, mostly rare today as there was a time when Kodak wanted to offer an alternative to the Prontor flash sync socket. The Kodak bayonet works good, in some ways too good as the flash sync cable can yank down the entire camera outfit if the sync cable is tripped on due to the positive locking of the connector's bayonet. This is what the the Kodak bayonet cable looks like after it has been modified for a wireless flash sync.

226454

Yes, this Graphic shutter works good as it has been CLA_ed and the total cost was not a bargain but a very GOOD value for what this lens does.

If this is your first view camera lens, consider purchasing a modern Plasmat from any of the big four (Rodenstock, Nikkor, Schneider, Fujinon) from a dealer that offers warranty and right of trial and return. This can go a ways to ending up with a lens and shutter that functions properly.


Bernice

[KingTigerII]

I have 3 with bad shutters

Previous owners wore them out

Great lens though!

That seems to be what I am finding everywhere - "Great lens, shutter is shot" :D


Those are the choices. None of the shutters is available new. One relatively cost-effective way to find, e.g., a relatively inexpensive Copal 1 might be to find a relatively unloved lens in one. MIght be. I just took a look on ebay.com, found nothing worth, IMO, chasing. It might be better to return the Ektar for a refund, if possible, and buy a decent plasmat type in shutter. I'm thinking 210/5.6 Fujinon, but these are larger and heavier than the 203 Ektar.

I was looking that route and, just like you said, there is nothing worth chasing. I thought about returning it but It's a hassle through Facebook marketplace and tbh I'd rather just keep it as a lesson and wait for a shutter to cross my path (I work at a camera store). I looked at the Fuji's and the Nikkor's but I really want the rounder Iris that the Compur has. Which means I'm just going to have to get this repaired...


I often use a small Packard shutter with DIY sync

This stuff is over 70 years old

Shutters are a big problem as only Packard is still in production

This one's only 59 years old ;) Valid point though. I'm used to the older gear, just in a current state of obsession.


Fact and reality of these vintage shutters. Consider this Graphic (Re branded Compur) shutter would be about 80 years new, to expect any mechanical device to be properly and fully functional after all those decades without any service or proper care would be absurd. Know the 203mm f7.7 Ektar is an excellent lens in many ways with no modern equal. Knowing and understanding this, the way to address this is to sent the shutter/lens to a properly qualified individual to be Cleaned/Lubed/Adjusted as needed. The solvent bath could have made the problems with the shutter worst as the solvent can and will float around the decades old Gooo all over the shutter innards then leaving a film and their residual Goo in places that is no good at all.

As for shutter interchangeability, yes the lens cells can fit into a# 1 shutter (Compur, Copal, Prontor and ..) long as the original lens cell spacing is matched to within 0.001" of the old-vs-replacement shutter. Any replacement shutter can easily have the same "Fubar" shutter speed problems as the current Graphic-Compur shutter. This points again to the reality of getting a know good shutter by testing before ownership, or sending the shutter out for proper CLA which is a wise investment into any lens to be used on a view camera and produce predicable results. Another trade off with these older Graphic-Compur shutters -vs- modern-new, the modern shutters do not have a round iris. This might be important of out of focus and into out of focus rendition is important to your image making.

The flash sync socket is a Kodak bayonet, mostly rare today as there was a time when Kodak wanted to offer an alternative to the Prontor flash sync socket. The Kodak bayonet works good, in some ways too good as the flash sync cable can yank down the entire camera outfit if the sync cable is tripped on due to the positive locking of the connector's bayonet. This is what the the Kodak bayonet cable looks like after it has been modified for a wireless flash sync.

226454

Yes, this Graphic shutter works good as it has been CLA_ed and the total cost was not a bargain but a very GOOD value for what this lens does.

If this is your first view camera lens, consider purchasing a modern Plasmat from any of the big four (Rodenstock, Nikkor, Schneider, Fujinon) from a dealer that offers warranty and right of trial and return. This can go a ways to ending up with a lens and shutter that functions properly.


Bernice

See, this is exactly what I knew in the back of my head - but through sheer determination and obsessive compulsive drive, I refused to acknowledge. I know the stuff is old, and the fact that it's a Compur design makes it particularly difficult to retain condition when it is never maintained. It really boils down to this: Find another copy or have it repaired. I work at a camera shop, and I deal mainly with used analog gear - I just have blinders on...big time. Also, good to know on the ASA mount - I'm looking at solutions. Thought about the modern Plasmat route, but the damned round iris in the Compur makes me crazy.

I think I'm going to repair this one, thank you everyone. I'm going to stop obsessing now ;)

[abruzzi]

I found a cheap Geronar 210 for ~$120, and swapped the shutter for my 203 lens elements. Fortunately 210 is close enough 203 that I can use the aperture scale as is. I may send the old compur in for service, but for now, the black ring copal 1 is accurate enough. (FYI, don't go looking for a shutter by itself--for some reason they almost always cost more than an boring lens with the same shutter.)

[BrianShaw]

Doesn’t your camera shop have a repair capability, in-house or via contract?

[John Kasaian]

Send it in for a CLA.
Flutot's is as good as they come and it's a very busy shop, so you'll need to be patient.
Carol has always provided a piece of paper with the speeds my shutters actually fires after a CLA.

[KingTigerII]

I found a cheap Geronar 210 for ~$120, and swapped the shutter for my 203 lens elements. Fortunately 210 is close enough 203 that I can use the aperture scale as is. I may send the old compur in for service, but for now, the black ring copal 1 is accurate enough. (FYI, don't go looking for a shutter by itself--for some reason they almost always cost more than an boring lens with the same shutter.)

Noticed that as well, I figure that the people selling the shutters by themselves know what they have and charge for it.


Doesn’t your camera shop have a repair capability, in-house or via contract?

We do. I've used our contracted repair place for a CLA on an Optar and a Pacemaker body (as well as a Hasselblad 501cm and a few Leica M series for gear purchased for resale) with good results. I was just trying to be cheap - and after some clarity the cheapest route is, in fact, repair/CLA since a replacement shutter would still need a CLA.

[KingTigerII]

Send it in for a CLA.
Flutot's is as good as they come and it's a very busy shop, so you'll need to be patient.
Carol has always provided a piece of paper with the speeds my shutters actually fires after a CLA.

Noted, thank you!

[BrianShaw]

Not “cheap”; you are trying to be THRIFTY. Commendable, as is knowing how to decide which option is really the thriftiest option! You will enjoy that lens when the shutter is overhauled.

[Joseph Kashi]

Send it in for a CLA.
Flutot's is as good as they come and it's a very busy shop, so you'll need to be patient.
Carol has always provided a piece of paper with the speeds my shutters actually fires after a CLA.

Carol at Flutot has done a great job for me doing CLA on two different 203 Ektars in various shutters. OP, That's probably your best bet, as you would retain the original mounting.

[Doremus Scudder]

The Ektar 203mm is a great little lens. It may be worth sending the shutter out for repair. Yes, you'd have a bit more invested in the lens, but then you'd also have a great lens in a newly-refurbished shutter.

Doremus

[paulbarden]

Hey everyone. I recently picked up a 203mm f/7.7 Ektar on Facebook marketplace. It turns out got the short end of the deal. The biggest deal is the shutter. It's the Graphic Synchro-Compur, and the speeds are completely FUBAR. Naptha bath didn't help it, and it needs to go out for repair.

Here's the issue I'm having: It appears to be far more cost effective to replace the lens with a shutter that has PC Sync built in. I just cannot find a shutter. From what I can tell it can take a Prontor 1, Copal 1, or Compur 1. Are there any other possibilities that I'm not aware of?

Any help or advice is welcome, I'm just frustrated beyond belief. I've scoured the search feature on the forums too.

Thanks!

I work on Compur shutters almost exclusively. Can you show me a photo of the front plate of the shutter? Its likely I can get that serviced for you pretty quickly. If its one of these, I am very familiar with these and can definitely get it done for you:https://www.photrio.com/forum/attachments/compur1-jpg.180209/

[linhofbiker]

I work on Compur shutters almost exclusively. Can you show me a photo of the front plate of the shutter? Its likely I can get that serviced for you pretty quickly. If its one of these, I am very familiar with these and can definitely get it done for you:https://www.photrio.com/forum/attachments/compur1-jpg.180209/

There is one Compur shutter that is never mentioned. It never needs a CLA and works forever until it doesn't. This the Compur Electronic #1 from the 1960's. It is a mechanical shutter that will operate at its highest speed usually 1/200 or 1/500 without a battery. With the battery (4.5 volt) installed the shutter is electronically timed down to 30 secs. No timing gears to foul up that require CLA, just a bunch of resistors/capacitors (from the 1960's) that either work or don't.

I have 5 of these shutters (#1 and #3) that still work. When they don't it is usually because of corrosion in the battery holder - any easy fix, just scrape away the corrosion and make sure you use a fresh battery from 3v to 6v, since the original 4.5v battery is hard to find.

[paulbarden]

There is one Compur shutter that is never mentioned. It never needs a CLA and works forever until it doesn't. This the Compur Electronic #1 from the 1960's. It is a mechanical shutter that will operate at its highest speed usually 1/200 or 1/500 without a battery. With the battery (4.5 volt) installed the shutter is electronically timed down to 30 secs. No timing gears to foul up that require CLA, just a bunch of resistors/capacitors (from the 1960's) that either work or don't.

I have 5 of these shutters (#1 and #3) that still work. When they don't it is usually because of corrosion in the battery holder - any easy fix, just scrape away the corrosion and make sure you use a fresh battery from 3v to 6v, since the original 4.5v battery is hard to find.

Personally, I dislike shutters that have electronics in them and require electricity to operate, and wouldn't seek one out. Resistors and capacitors WILL FAIL in time, whereas the all mechanical Compurs are likely to work for another hundred years, if cared for.

[Jim Andrada]

I have a few lenses in crap shutters - I just call them "neo-barrel" mounted lenses. It should be possible to front mount the whole thing onto a larger shutter with an adapter of some sort. I have a Shanel #5 shutter that's designed to be used with barrel mounted lenses with their own aperture so it's purely a shutter, with no aperture of its own. I found the Shanel on ebay with a nice Fujinar 210 lens for about what a shutter CLA would run.

I also have both the 203 and the 100mm wide field Ektar - really quite nice. The 203 is usually on my Technika. I really like the lens.

[Rod Klukas]

The service manual for the Supermatic shutters is free in a PDF here:

https://learncamerarepair.com/downloads/pdf/Kodak-Flash-Supermatic-Shutter-Service.pdf

Might be helpful.

Rod

[Chauncey Walden]

Thanks for that link, Rod. I have both the Ektar and uncoated "pre Ektar" versions and both are favorites and tack sharp.