Folding a Norma for transport

[abruzzi]

The Norma manual suggests that you move the carriers to the far ends of the base rail, then use the tilt to fold them down towards each other, leaving the bellows attached to one of the standards (I'm guessing the front since the bellows in the drawing have a taper.):

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My 4x5 Norma has square bellows at the moment, but I definitely cant get the angle displayed here, I can't even get it down to parallel with the rail. Is this because I have the square bellows? Or older, less flexible bellows?

Does anyone successfully fold and transport the camera this way? It works perfectly on the F because the rise is below the tilt, meaning you can just raise each standard to the point that it can be folded to parallel, but the Norma doesn't have that option. Currently I'm doing what's pictured in the drawing, just removing the bellows first, which works but is slower and requires that I have a place to put the bellows--so less than ideal.

[H Gloriant]

Hello !
With mine http://35mm-compact.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=61372&p=1011626#p1011626

[abruzzi]

interesting, thanks! My square bellows don't compress that much (and I have three sets!)--maybe they're old and stiff. I ordered a tapered set off eBay from a Japanese seller, so I'll soon see if they do any better.

[abruzzi]

just a follow up--the tapered bellows I ordered came in and this one works much better then the 4 square bellows I have. Just like in the picture, the front standard with the bellows still attached can fold down a little past parallel. Its a tiny bit more compact than my F, and unlike the F, the tilt angle guage isn't going to get caught on the bag and bent out of shape.

I don't know if it is becuase the tapered bellows can naturally compress more (because the please are more nested) or the tapered bellows is just in better shape.

Next up--how to pack a P2 5x7....(I think that one is going in a pelican case.)

[Bernice Loui]

Might be easier to transport a Norma with a shorter rail, complete camera. Set up is much easier and rapid than folding as the Norma is stored and transported complete with shutter and lens. Essentially, lift out of the case, place on the camera support, add rails as needed, essentially ready to work.

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Bernice

[abruzzi]

I’m assuming that’s a customized base rail? The only base rails I’ve seen are the 12in older single sided base, the later double sided 12in, and in the catalogs, there is a very long base rail not sure the length, but probably close to 450mm. What your picture show looks like a 6in extension rail converted to a base rail.

[Drew Wiley]

I don't don't fold my Norma down for transport, having a different method. But the original tapered Norma bellows has a number of advantages over the later box bellows, and one of them is that it is indeed more supple, flexible, and compressible. I presume it was discontinued in 4x5 fashion because the box-style bellows could be mass-manufactured in longer continuous lengths and simply sectioned off, making those significantly more economical to produce.

I'm a long lens type, so ordinarily have about 2 ft of rail in place all the time, and then only shorten it if I happen to use a wide-angle lens, which is not often. But being modular, there are numerous ways all Sinar cameras can be configured or re-configured for convenient transport. But 'scuse me, 'cause I have to go now and place my own Norma pack in the truck, and head out soon for a decent knee workout in our hills.

[Bernice Loui]

Yes, that is a standard Sinar rail that has been cut down to fit to sockets inside a Pelican case. The 5x7 Norma is held by the two caps bolted to the top and bottom inside of the pelican case, then foamed around the Norma to damp and prevent movement while being wheeled around in the pelican case.

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The Norma can fit on to the standard 6" rail complete. There is a lost of ease to add rails as the standard 6" rail is designed to screw on to the standard rail which has fixed threaded rail sockets. Majority of transport and packing dislikes with monorail camera has much to do with the length of the rail, storing the monorail camera with a short rail solves this problem very nicely and has nil impact with the advantages monorail cameras offer.

And yes, the original Norma bellows are more flexi, extends more and nicer to use than the later square bellows. Think Custom Bellows in the UK makes Sinar Norma OEM bellows per order.


Bernice


I’m assuming that’s a customized base rail? The only base rails I’ve seen are the 12in older single sided base, the later double sided 12in, and in the catalogs, there is a very long base rail not sure the length, but probably close to 450mm. What your picture show looks like a 6in extension rail converted to a base rail.

[abruzzi]

Yeah, I get the benefit of leaving everything upright. To fold mine the way Sinar details above I have to remove the lens and disconnect the bellows from the rear standard, otherwise setup is very quick, and folded I can easily store in in a moderate sized shoulder bag. And, yeah, I just got back from taking a couple of shots with it out in the desert (with the Kodak 203mm). I seems a tiny bit more robust than the ultra cheap F I got a while back. (The F would always bend the arrow that points to the tilt angle. On the Norma that is more protected, and essentially impossible to mess up.)

[Bernice Loui]

Norma is a much nicer made camera than the F or F2, Both are nice to use in their own way. These days, simply prefer the Norma in many ways. Not a backpacker or hiker, or why the Pelican roller works to meet the image making needs. The tripod rides on the pelican roller case with bungee cords making a easy roller outfit.

The days of $100 USD for a good user Sinar F are mostly gone today. They were a excellent value back then.


Bernice

[Michael Whyte-Venables]

My tapered bellows don't compress enough either, and they are leather and presumably therefore original. The instructions in That Book are unclear to me.

[abruzzi]

Maybe I got lucky, but the tapered set I bought used on eBay (japanese seller) compress enough to get the front standard a little closer than parallel. I suspect that this is primarily an "old bellows" issue. I have an old 8x10 bellows that, at most, compress to about 8 inches. When I see similar bellows new online, they seem to compress a whole lot more. So, previously, I replaced bellows when pinholes started appearing, now I'm thinking of just replacing all my old bellows. Its not cheap, but most of my photography is in the field, so in addition to weight, ability to pack into a compact portable package is a must.

[Greg]

My experience with 4x5 bellows for a Sinar Norma has been that an OEM older tapered bellows closed the most, but the one I had had so many pinholes to render it unusable. As for newer square bellows, I have had many and they could roughly be classified into three levels/thicknesses of closing. The one that closed the most compact had "newer" OEM frames at both ends but its bellows of questionable origin, definitely not up to the quality of Custom Bellows in the UK... it eventually pretty much self-destructed.

[Drew Wiley]

I have two original Norma tapered bellows, both in superb condition, and very compressible to the degree a Custom Bellows product might not be. Don't take that wrong, I've had wonderful service from Custom, and their product is excellent, just a little different. But I don't think I'd ever trust a thin cheap Chinese synthetic substitute.

[Pete Oakley]

Custom Bellows made Sinars bellows for the company in the first place. Great service and nice blokes.
Pete.