The Renaissance of Film Photography among Young People

[Tom-Thomas]

On one hand I am extremely happy about this recent renewal of interest in film photography among the younger crowd, which in no small part has saved film photography from being totally obsolete. But on the other hand, I wonder how long this fad will last and when it finally fades away, then what will become of film photography?

I am quite certain, from my own observations, that this renaissance of film photography among young people is just a fad instead of a real enthusiasm and appreciation of film photography. Not much different from any fad du jour popularized by any one of those social media influencers.

My best friend owns and runs a local camera store-film lab (where I hang out at quite regularly). Since the last 4 years or so, his film rolls and processing sales have gone from next to zero to now accounting for a good 30/40% of the store's profit. It's great money. But unfortunately both of us regularly see the ugly and sad side of this trend. Below are some examples. They sounds like poor jokes but I swear that they are real events that we both witness.

(1) Most of the customers do NOT want the negatives back. Most just want the film to be scanned so they can post the images on social media. Not even prints. They either don't come back for it or instruct the staff at the start to trash it.

(2) One time, when the store personnel asked a 20-something whether or not he wanted the negatives back, the young man went, "The what now?" So the store personnel pull up a roll of sample negatives to show him. The guy asked, "What is this brown thing?" He was puzzled.

(3) A group of like 3 or 4 young women came in to buy films. One of the women in the group asked, "Why are you shooting film. Just use your iPhone." The other woman replied, "It's a thing now, don't you know?" They all giggled.

(4) Then we had this innocent (just trying to be nice here) young woman who, I saw, kept opening the camera back. I could clearly see a roll of film had been loaded in the camera. After about the 3rd time I witnessed her opening the camera back, I finally couldn't hold back anymore and asked her politely why she was doing it. Did she need help loading the film correctly? She replied, "How do I see the photos? Is there a button to push or something? I opened it and I still don't see any photo. Where are the photos?"

(5) Almost 1/3 of all the rolls they processed are blank, or severely underexposed, or have light leaks all over the place. And the customers never know why and many of them just blame the lab for ruining their films.

(6) A full 70% of them, I would say, don't know what the aperture, shutter speed, ISO, focal length mean or how they work in taking photos. Not even the slightest clue. The worst thing is they refuse to even read the manual for the camera even though the majority of these manuals are still readily available online.

(7) The worst of it is that many of these youngsters are now "professional" photographers who charge people money for taking photos with the "film look"! Routinely, these "professional" photographers would come in the store and ask the staff questions like, "I have a shoot tomorrow, can you tell how to get the very blurry background I see in these photos?" So they pull up some photos on Instagram to show the staff. Or, they will ask, "I have a shoot tomorrow, can you show me how to use the flash?" And they pull up some photos on Instagram to show the staff. Questions like these, photography 101 things, are being asked by these "professional" photographers on a daily basis. Granted, this phenomenon isn't unique to film photography. The advances in digital photography has lower the entry bar so much that now everyone is a "professional" photographer these days as long as anyone has the gall to demand money for shooting. But I digress.

Anyway, it's just a rant. Tell me how you feel about this fad.

[Alan Klein]

Maybe when they get bored with film, they'll take up bowling.

[Wishegan]

The attitude that film photography is a fad with zeroing in on the younger generation and how it is anecdotally naive drives away the new members of the community. A top priority of this forum should be to welcome the young ones who have an interest, not to make them feel insecure. Film photography is magic. I wasn’t there but it’s hard to believe the last generation did not “suffer” from the same points above, the luxury was that the norm was film so it’s harder to be uneducated.

[Ulophot]

Hi, Tom-Thomas. As you may have seen from my recent thread relating to this subject, I see it rather differently. There are always fads, of course, and this certainly has a large component of that, as your anecdotal observations illustrate. One can view many of the countless YouTube videos/channels on film photography and infer the same. (I don’t visit Facebook, TikTok, or other so-called social media, so I don’t have much to say about them. I don’t watch TV either, but that’s another story.) However, there are other components to the picture, of a more serious nature, and time will tell how far or extensively they may take hold among a certain percentage of enthusiast photographers internationally.

My view of the overall situation involves more than I can go through here. I would suggest, however, that a confluence of economic and social factors has been heading for quite some time toward an major cultural inflection point, at which matters may turn one way or another. One such direction would be a new appreciation for the reality, that we human beings need a number of physical things to meet our needs, including food, clothing, shelter, energy sources, and so forth, and that a need exists to return to certain standards for their production and organization. Such a change relies on policy issues that lie outside the purpose of this forum, so I will not say more on them here.

The nascent, natural increase of concern during the past decade and more, over this physical basis of our existence, I believe, is part of what informs at least the more serious of those finding, or returning to, film photography, whether they are conscious of it or not. As I mentioned in the other thread, one hears a clear refrain among many such enthusiasts, voicing an enjoyment of slowing down, participating in the craft, anticipating the results, and valuing the physical products, i.e., prints. I don’t believe it to be confined to photography. I hear similar voicings among educators at all levels, as well as among people in all sorts of professions who have tired of the shallowness and blitz factors of the media barrage in general and are finding pathways involving more of an investment of their intellect and deeper emotions.

There are certainly generational differences at play, yielding the kinds of behavior you have witnessed and reported. Again, I think it would be inappropriate for me to say too much about that in this forum. In any case, I think there is reason for more optimism than might arise from your observations.

[r.e.]

Anyway, it's just a rant.

Yup.

[jp]

Nothing new under the sun. These same problems with the general public and film technique and ignorance about negatives could be from 1990 except for the insta references. It wasn't a fad then.

[jnantz]

(2) One time, when the store personnel asked a 20-something whether or not he wanted the negatives back, the young man went, "The what now?" So the store personnel pull up a roll of sample negatives to show him. The guy asked, "What is this brown thing?" He was puzzled.


if someone drops their film off at a pharmacy or Walmart where FujiFIlm picks up ( they are the last large national drop off lab that picks up at these places ) they don't return the negatives either. Walmart and cvs/rite aid/walgreens don't pay for the return freight so they beam the files to the kiosk to be printed by the dye sub printer when they are ready and the store burns a CD of images. a lot of people don't care about the negatives and if I remember back to growing up, we have lots of photo albums with prints in them ( and that sticky film ) and no negatives they must be stored somewhere else that we'll never find LOL. that was the 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s. .. film negatives are a pain unless you print them yourself or have some sort of filing mechanism. I have 3ring binders full of film stacks of print files, and empty 4x5 and 5x7 boxes full of negatives I'm sure it wouldn't matter if they vanished tomorrow.

[Alan Klein]

Film itself went through changes even before digital. Let's see. We have large format, medium format, and then 35mm became really popular. We had only prints at first, then with 35mm especially we moved into slide projection. We started with BW and then color became paramount. Negative film and then positive slide film In between all of that, Polaroid instant film became really popular too. Things ebb and flow. Now with digital, things change as well. P&S, micro 4/3, DSLRs, MF, now the mirrors and optical viewfinders have been removed and we have all electronic displays. Photos are mainly shown on cellphones, on monitors, from the web, and on 4K smart TVs. Oh. Still cameras shoot videos clips as well, so we've become videographers.

Let's face it. We're never going to return to film as it were. But there probably will be enough people who are interested in the method to keep manufacturers invested because they can make some money from it. Meanwhile, just enjoy it.

[Sal Santamaura]

On one hand I am extremely happy about this recent renewal of interest in film photography among the younger crowd, which in no small part has saved film photography from being totally obsolete. But on the other hand, I wonder how long this fad will last and when it finally fades away, then what will become of film photography?...I'm fortunate to be old enough and have enough film and Azo paper stockpiled that I won't be concerned when the fad, along with increasing film sales volume, fades away.


...Tell me how you feel about this fad.Sad, especially for those who refuse to accept the reality of its inevitable end.

[ic-racer]

My youngest will be taking photography at school next year. Apparently there is a darkroom so I suspect film will be in the curriculum.

We really are in the golden age of photography, there is more B&W film available in every size imaginable at my fingertips. Film cameras are still inexpensive. Just got another Nikon f100 like new in box for $150.
I have every piece of pro darkroom equipment I ever dreamed about.

[Tom-Thomas]

The attitude that film photography is a fad with zeroing in on the younger generation and how it is anecdotally naive drives away the new members of the community.
No. no, no. I don't want to drive away anyone who has become interested in film photography or to discourage anyone from shooting film. Not at all. As I mentioned in the first sentence in the opening post, I think that this revival is helping in a great way the survival of film photography. Thus, the more people are shooting film, the merrier I am.

The reason that I focus on the youngsters is NOT because of any objection or contempt against novices. Instead it is because the revival of interest in film photography is mainly seen among young people. At least this is my observation. I think, for many of us of the older generation who have a love for photography have never left film photography to begin with — not completely anyway — and as such there is no "revival of interest" to speak of as we have always maintained an interest in it.


A top priority of this forum should be to welcome the young ones who have an interest, not to make them feel insecure.
You are right, of course. And to be clear, I have never mocked or showed disdain or otherwise made any novice feel insecure or ashamed because of his/her nescience of the knowledge and skills needed for shooting film. However, when a person doesn't t even expend the little effort to learn at least the very basics (how to load a roll of film for example) of the film photography, it's hard for me to believe that this person has a genuine appreciation for it. From my POV, this behaviour indicates this person to be a hipster who chases after a trend more than an enthusiast who genuinely enjoys the process.

[Tom-Thomas]

Hi, Tom-Thomas. As you may have seen from my recent thread relating to this subject, I see it rather differently. There are always fads, of course, and this certainly has a large component of that, as your anecdotal observations illustrate. One can view many of the countless YouTube videos/channels on film photography and infer the same. (I don’t visit Facebook, TikTok, or other so-called social media, so I don’t have much to say about them. I don’t watch TV either, but that’s another story.) However, there are other components to the picture, of a more serious nature, and time will tell how far or extensively they may take hold among a certain percentage of enthusiast photographers internationally.

My view of the overall situation involves more than I can go through here. I would suggest, however, that a confluence of economic and social factors has been heading for quite some time toward an major cultural inflection point, at which matters may turn one way or another. One such direction would be a new appreciation for the reality, that we human beings need a number of physical things to meet our needs, including food, clothing, shelter, energy sources, and so forth, and that a need exists to return to certain standards for their production and organization. Such a change relies on policy issues that lie outside the purpose of this forum, so I will not say more on them here.

The nascent, natural increase of concern during the past decade and more, over this physical basis of our existence, I believe, is part of what informs at least the more serious of those finding, or returning to, film photography, whether they are conscious of it or not. As I mentioned in the other thread, one hears a clear refrain among many such enthusiasts, voicing an enjoyment of slowing down, participating in the craft, anticipating the results, and valuing the physical products, i.e., prints. I don’t believe it to be confined to photography. I hear similar voicings among educators at all levels, as well as among people in all sorts of professions who have tired of the shallowness and blitz factors of the media barrage in general and are finding pathways involving more of an investment of their intellect and deeper emotions.

There are certainly generational differences at play, yielding the kinds of behavior you have witnessed and reported. Again, I think it would be inappropriate for me to say too much about that in this forum. In any case, I think there is reason for more optimism than might arise from your observations.

You are a lot more optimistic than I am. I hope you are right, though. For sure, there are some newcomers to film photography who possess a sincere passion, enjoyment and appreciation for the process. However, from my own observations, they are the minority in this renaissance. I hope I am wrong.

[Tin Can]

As most here I shot film all my life, tiny format!

Then I got excited about DIGI 1999, spending oddles on tiny NIKON that broke. I carry on to this day, DIGGI GOOD!

However, when I joined here, the date is on the left, I saw ALL REAL PROS selling ALL their gear for cheap. I bought

So I heartily began to learn as I knew nothing beyond 35mm, even shot the same Pentax H1 40 years

I couldn't load sheet film for months. I have never been able to load steel roll film reels. My hands are delicate claws

My bathroom DR was a problem then, but now I process film nearly anywhere

Still learning everyday!

The Kids Are Alright (https://youtu.be/afam2nIae4o)

WE give them a World of SHIT

[jnantz]

You are a lot more optimistic than I am. I hope you are right, though. For sure, there are some newcomers to film photography who possess a sincere passion, enjoyment and appreciation for the process. However, from my own observations, they are the minority in this renaissance. I hope I am wrong.

silver nitrate and kosher salt will always be around. it's really not that hard to make one's own photo emulsion, whenever I do it it takes about 20 minutes from start to finish.
YMMV of course. So if the revolution isn't televised, I can put myself in the driver seat and it will be live.

[goamules]

Since my kids were young I've been a very active LF film and wetplate photographer and camera collector. They've been models for me, and attended shows, and hear about every new camera or lens find. None have more than a passing interest, and none take any film photographs (though all 3 do like other antiques and use some of them). They are in their 20s and 30s now. Any could easily borrow one of my 35mms, many "fashionable" and cool looking rangefinders. But they haven't. None of their friends, many in IT and science careers shoot film either. I'd say maybe 1 out of 500 young people get into film. So it's not really a renaissance. It's that the internet has sites for any hobby, no matter how uncommon. Like collectors of balls of string, or ice fishing.

Why? The trouble and cost of developing outweigh the "cool factor" they'd get carrying or using a camera. I take that back, the only film cameras I got them into were the Fuji Instax (mini polaroid type film) cameras for a year or two. But those are all very cheap looking, and their film is over a dollar a shot. Many young people have little money for this type of recreation.

[Ulophot]

You are a lot more optimistic than I am. I hope you are right, though. For sure, there are some newcomers to film photography who possess a sincere passion, enjoyment and appreciation for the process. However, from my own observations, they are the minority in this renaissance. I hope I am wrong.

The nature of a renaissance is that it is led by a few exceptional individuals with vision and insight. So with the great Arab Renaissance and individuals such as Ibn Sina (Avicenna), the Florentine Renaissance and such as Nicholas of Cusa, Brunelleschi and Leonardo. The renaissance of film photography will, I expect, hardly be so sweeping; rather, in my view, one small aspect -- and it may remain quite small -- of a broader reawakening of other values. Seeds have been planted, but only a few do the hard work of farming.

[Alan Klein]

The attitude that film photography is a fad with zeroing in on the younger generation and how it is anecdotally naive drives away the new members of the community. A top priority of this forum should be to welcome the young ones who have an interest, not to make them feel insecure. Film photography is magic. I wasn’t there but it’s hard to believe the last generation did not “suffer” from the same points above, the luxury was that the norm was film so it’s harder to be uneducated.

The young are out shooting pictures. They don't have time for forums.

[Alan Klein]

Since my kids were young I've been a very active LF film and wetplate photographer and camera collector. They've been models for me, and attended shows, and hear about every new camera or lens find. None have more than a passing interest, and none take any film photographs (though all 3 do like other antiques and use some of them). They are in their 20s and 30s now. Any could easily borrow one of my 35mms, many "fashionable" and cool looking rangefinders. But they haven't. None of their friends, many in IT and science careers shoot film either. I'd say maybe 1 out of 500 young people get into film. So it's not really a renaissance. It's that the internet has sites for any hobby, no matter how uncommon. Like collectors of balls of string, or ice fishing.

Why? The trouble and cost of developing outweigh the "cool factor" they'd get carrying or using a camera. I take that back, the only film cameras I got them into were the Fuji Instax (mini polaroid type film) cameras for a year or two. But those are all very cheap looking, and their film is over a dollar a shot. Many young people have little money for this type of recreation.

If there are let's say 2 billion children in the world, and 1 in 500 takes up photography, that's 4,000,000. If each kid spends let's say $100 a year on it, that's $400,000,000 annually. So there's enough in it for companies to stay around and make a profit. We may be left with only a few, But so far, so good. Fortunately, most of the best chemistry and R&D have been done. So we're starting off with excellent film products and cameras (if old and slightly worn).

[Tin Can]

I have posted about the complete obsolesce of any camera, image system before

If and that is a bigger IF now, we will have bionic soldiers shortly

As they will get the first iterations

Body Internal 'Hard Drive'

Brain and vision combined imaging

Elon is close on that

Prints as REAL Art will survive

but they burn as fast as books

451

[BrianShaw]

silver nitrate and kosher salt will always be around. it's really not that hard to make one's own photo emulsion, whenever I do it it takes about 20 minutes from start to finish.
YMMV of course. So if the revolution isn't televised, I can put myself in the driver seat and it will be live.

Isn't Jello needed too?

[Wishegan]

The young are out shooting pictures. They don't have time for forums.

They have the time - they are tuned into the internet. Perhaps adjusting/ adding to the old forum (speaking of all forums- not this one in particular) ways would attract some new members. Does this forum have an Instagram? A discord chat? A YouTube channel? What is it’s involvement with Reddit? Is it in a relationship with a large format podcast? The reputation of this forum is “curmudgeonly”. I’ve heard this twice on podcasts recently.

This forum has a wealth of information with its members and what it has recorded.

[Tin Can]

I am on the BIG I eye Internet 24/7

However I no longer trust any social media, those you tout and more

i don't bit the coin either

But i am lucky as I doubt i survive another winter

i will try but some age faster

i can 'see' my computers fighting some Thing all the time





They have the time - they are tuned into the internet. Perhaps adjusting/ adding to the old forum (speaking of all forums- not this one in particular) ways would attract some new members. Does this forum have an Instagram? A discord chat? A YouTube channel? What is it’s involvement with Reddit? Is it in a relationship with a large format podcast? The reputation of this forum is “curmudgeonly”. I’ve heard this twice on podcasts recently.

This forum has a wealth of information with its members and what it has recorded.

[Steve Sherman]

It's an evolutionary thing, where you choose or decide to sit on that curve is a personal choice, so long as analog materials survive. Nothing surprises me in this discussion, let's not lose sight of the irony in this whole thing, George Eastman marketed the Brownie camera as a means to expose the masses to photography. The big difference is the advancements are happening at an exponential rate over the last generation.

[Wishegan]

I am on the BIG I eye Internet 24/7

However I no longer trust any social media, those you tout and more

i don't bit the coin either



We are participating in social media right now. It's not something to trust. But it is something that can benefit most.

[Tin Can]

Yes this forum is Social

Sorta, I got/git a lot of deliberate misdirection here

Old boys club

I am old, but never an EXPERT here

We have ONE expert


We are participating in social media right now. It's not something to trust. But it is something that can benefit most.

[Wishegan]

226079

[Oren Grad]

They have the time - they are tuned into the internet. Perhaps adjusting/ adding to the old forum (speaking of all forums- not this one in particular) ways would attract some new members. Does this forum have an Instagram? A discord chat? A YouTube channel? What is it’s involvement with Reddit? Is it in a relationship with a large format podcast? The reputation of this forum is “curmudgeonly”. I’ve heard this twice on podcasts recently.

We are a volunteer-driven enterprise running on bare-bones infrastructure. Being independent and non-commercial is a core principle for us. We are not willing to become dependent on or otherwise entangled with proprietary social network platforms. That's all I'll say on that point - the benefits and hazards of those platforms more broadly is a contentious topic that is beyond our scope.

A certain amount of the curmudgeon factor is inevitable, just part of the human condition. But sometimes the rhetorical habits of members here feed on each other to derail threads and make for an unfriendly environment. We (moderator team) do worry about that and wrestle with finding the right balance of moderation to keep that under control without being too heavy-handed and while keeping our burden within what we can handle.

[Michael R]

226079

:)

[Dugan]

I'll just leave this Craigslist ad here without comment :226080

[Serge S]

Your work is appreciated!


We are a volunteer-driven enterprise running on bare-bones infrastructure. Being independent and non-commercial is a core principle for us. We are not willing to become dependent on or otherwise entangled with proprietary social network platforms. That's all I'll say on that point - the benefits and hazards of those platforms more broadly is a contentious topic that is beyond our scope.

A certain amount of the curmudgeon factor is inevitable, just part of the human condition. But sometimes the rhetorical habits of members here feed on each other to derail threads and make for an unfriendly environment. We (moderator team) do worry about that and wrestle with finding the right balance of moderation to keep that under control without being too heavy-handed and while keeping our burden within what we can handle.

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah, we probably won't stop throwing spit-wads soaked in pyro at each other, but that doesn't mean we don't appreciate a moderator. It might seem like a thankless task, but it isn't. Thank you from me too, Oren.

[Corran]

Question for the OP - how does this thread serve you or the film community? What would you want younger photographers to glean from this post?

And more directly, can you let us know what store/lab your friend owns? And perhaps you can share with us your background in (film) photography and maybe a portfolio.

[Oren Grad]

Question for the OP - how does this thread serve you or the film community? What would you want younger photographers to glean from this post?

And more directly, can you let us know what store/lab your friend owns? And perhaps you can share with us your background in (film) photography and maybe a portfolio.

Please don't go there.

I'm going to close this. I hope we can have other discussions focused on how to help young photographers who are interested in our craft. But repeating a point I posted in the tripod-friendly places thread: if your thread-launching post or your response is framed as "why are you / why is X so stupid/perverse", please don't post it - odds are nothing constructive is going to come of it.