Advice on lense (comparing 2 options)

[AnetteB]

Hello everyone,
Am doubting about which lens to get and would be happy get advice. I have a Linhof Master Technika with only 1 lens (150/5.6 R-stock Sironar N). I am launching a portrait project and want a longer lens (for full-frame digital, my workhorse is 85mm). Want it sharp and contrasty, not too soft. Half to 3/4 body portraits, outdoors.
Was thinking of 210 or 240 mm (have played with the idea of a 300 but uncertain about bellows; haven't really done my research on that yet, am quite new to LF). Have seen many lenses on ebay, but most would entail shipping from Japan - hesitant, if it needs to be returned.

Now the following lens is for sale at 20 min drive from my home:
1. R-stock Sinar Sinaron SE 210/5.6, 'as new' for 1000 Euro (about the same in USD, I think). A bit pricier than I would have liked, buy it is of course a huge advantage that I can see/test it before I buy it.

Then, I just saw this on sale today:
2. Nikkor 300 f9 M, 'as new', for 700 USD (with shipping from US (to Europe), and customs on top, it will cost me as much as the Rodenstock). Had not thought about this lens at all, but love the idea of such a light lens.

What to do? Any views?
Best,
Anette

[Oslolens]

Nice pictures on your website.
If you want sharp images at large aperture like f8 the SE option has an edge over cheaper lenses.
You may find cheaper, smaller lenses like 210mm Sironar-N f5.6 in most of EU with guarantee.

This is a Caltar-version of mentioned lens located in Finland https://kamerastore.com/products/calumet-210mm-f5-6-caltar-ii-n-mc-copal-1-large-format-1

As for focal length I could not tell as I don't have the camera.


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[AnetteB]

Thank you, for advice and compliment (almost all photos on the site are digital, except a few 6x6.. in due course, hope to add the new project I want to do with my Linhof). That Caltar is an interesting option! Thanks for the link!!

[Philippe Grunchec]

A Tele Arton or a Tele Xenar!

[nitroplait]

Thank you, for advice and compliment (almost all photos on the site are digital, except a few 6x6.. in due course, hope to add the new project I want to do with my Linhof). That Caltar is an interesting option! Thanks for the link!!
Don't know if the lens will fit your requirements, but I just want to say that I have bought loads of stuff from Kamerastore and only had good experiences.

[AnetteB]

Don't know if the lens will fit your requirements, but I just want to say that I have bought loads of stuff from Kamerastore and only had good experiences.

Tack, Niels.

[AnetteB]

And how worried should one be about 'Slight dust inside, which has no affect on image quality'?

[xkaes]

Hello, Since you are interested in "Half to 3/4 body portraits, outdoors", I would suggest a look at 240mm & 250mm lenses. You should be able to find several, used, under $300 USD.

I use a Fujinon 250mm NW f6.3 and it is a real winner. I paid about $150 for mine:

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm

[maltfalc]

300mm would be equivalent to 86mm. don't worry about dust.

[BrianShaw]

And how worried should one be about 'Slight dust inside, which has no affect on image quality'?

Almost always nothing to be worried about. Often only seen is shining a light though the lens into your eye. It seems too many folks try to clean this but it’s simply not worth the investment in time. A good image won’t even notice the dust. In fact, a bad image won’t either.

[drew.saunders]

Hello everyone,
Am doubting about which lens to get and would be happy get advice. I have a Linhof Master Technika with only 1 lens (150/5.6 R-stock Sironar N). I am launching a portrait project and want a longer lens (for full-frame digital, my workhorse is 85mm). Want it sharp and contrasty, not too soft. Half to 3/4 body portraits, outdoors.
According to this: http://linhof.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/linhof_master_technika_e.pdf
Your Master Technica can go up to 430mm of bellows. I presume that's with the rear bellows behind the "box" extended fully. Anyway, that would allow pretty close focusing with a 300mm lens if you want.


Was thinking of 210 or 240 mm (have played with the idea of a 300 but uncertain about bellows; haven't really done my research on that yet, am quite new to LF). Have seen many lenses on ebay, but most would entail shipping from Japan - hesitant, if it needs to be returned.

Now the following lens is for sale at 20 min drive from my home:
1. R-stock Sinar Sinaron SE 210/5.6, 'as new' for 1000 Euro (about the same in USD, I think). A bit pricier than I would have liked, buy it is of course a huge advantage that I can see/test it before I buy it.

Then, I just saw this on sale today:
2. Nikkor 300 f9 M, 'as new', for 700 USD (with shipping from US (to Europe), and customs on top, it will cost me as much as the Rodenstock). Had not thought about this lens at all, but love the idea of such a light lens.

What to do? Any views?
Best,
Anette

210mm is a very popular portrait format for 4x5, especially since you're looking at half to 3/4 body photos, not tight head shots. Being able to inspect the lens is possibly worth the extra cost. Does the shop test the shutters? If so, that could be worth a lot, as you'll know if you need to get the shutter overhauled or not. The top shutter speed won't be at spec, that's to be expected, but if all or many of the speeds are more than 1/3 of a stop slow, then you may want to get the shutter serviced. For 1000 Euro, hopefully they've tested and possibly serviced the shutter.

The Nikkor 300/9 M and Fuji 300/8.5 C are popular compact lenses. Eventually, one will show up in Europe that might be a better deal. When I was looking, the Fuji was cheaper (new) than the Nikkor, but now the prices of the Fuji have shot up quite a bit!

If you're looking at splitting the difference with a 240 or 250mm lens, the Fuji 250/6.3 uses a Copal 1 shutter, so it quite a bit lighter than other 240/5.6 lenses in Copal 3 shutters. The f/6.3 version doesn't cover 8x10, while the older f/6.7 version does cover 8x10, so the 6.3 is more affordable, but if you're shooting 4x5, you don't need the extra coverage anyway. I used to use a Fuji 250/6.3, but then got a Fuji Fujinar 250/4.5 and like that lens quite a bit more, so I sold the 250/6.3. The Fujinar wide open is a more "gentle focus" lens than the Plasmats, so, based on what you're looking for, might not suit you as well as the Rodenstock that you're looking at, or a similar modern lens.

Drew

[Bernice Loui]

Hello Anette,

85mm FF digital or 35mm would be about 240mm with 4x5 film. 210mm on 4x5 is closer to 60mm on FF digital or 35mm.

Lens choice should be driven by lens aperture to be used. For many decades now, the 85mm used on FF digital or 35mm has been a Canon 85mm f1.2. The most often used aperture with this 85mm is f1.2 to f4, on very seldom occasions f5.6 would be the small aperture limit.

If the lens aperture to be used is f16 to f32, any (yes any) modern Plasmat would be more than good enough long as the lens cells are good and more important the shutter is accurate, reliable, consistent and not wore out. IMO, spending 1000 EU on a 210mm f5.6 Sinaron (rodenstock sironar) is WAY too much. A common 210mm Sironar (any flavor), Schneider Symmar S, Nikkor W or similar Fujinon will do near identical at much lower cost (200 EU and up) with much higher value.

Nikkor 300mm f9 M is a fave among landscape folks as it is small, lightweight with GOOD optical performance.

For both these lenses, know they are optimized at f22 with their ideal aperture from f11 to f45 as end limits. They are designed and intended to render images with the majority of their image area in perceived focus by applying small (f16 or smaller) taking aperture. These modern lenses come in shutters with non-round iris which affects their in to out of focus transition and out of focus rendition (not as smooth as it could be as they were not designed for this).

If the portrait goals are to use a larger lens aperture, both of these lenses are not the ideal choice as they were not designed to be used in this way. Modern Plasmats (Sironar, Symmar, W series) have a full aperture of f5.6 to render a bright image on the ground glass to ease focusing, but their working aperture is commonly much smaller.

If the portrait goals are to use a large taking aperture, a f4.5 to f6.3 Tessar design (Nikkor M is a Tessar) lens with a round iris will serve better than the modern Plasmat.

As for "sharp-contrasty" majority of post WW-II single coated view camera lenses easily meets this requirement. This is rooted in the fact view camera lenses have fewer lens elements than lenses designed for FF digital or 35mm film. Fewer lens elements reduces the number of air to glass surfaces where flare-reflections happen reducing contrast. This is not true for FF digital or 35mm lenses specially zoom lenses that have a large number of lens elements and air to glass surfaces. If not for modern multi-coatings none of these complex modern zoom lenses can be designed or produced. View camera lenses are less complex placing far lower demands on the need for multi-coatings and such. That said, contrast rendition does figure into lens choice and is driven by the "look" or image goal in mind.

Resist falling into the "latest-greatest-sharpest" Foto gear trap as this alone seldom results in expressive and creative images. This does sell plenty of Foto gear at the expense of the image maker.

IMO, lighting, portrait sitter's expression and all those aspects of portraiture IS more important than lens/camera alone.

Using a 300mm lens for head/shoulder portraits on the Linhof Technika works, there is enough bellows and camera extension. Been there, done that.

Not 4x5, but 8x10 portrait lens discussion might be helpful as much of the same lens personality aspects discussed apply to 4x5.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?163239-Suggest-a-12-quot-(300mm)-lens-for-portrait-work-on-8x10


:)
Bernice













Hello everyone,

I am launching a portrait project and want a longer lens (for full-frame digital, my workhorse is 85mm). Want it sharp and contrasty, not too soft. Half to 3/4 body portraits, outdoors.


Was thinking of 210 or 240 mm (have played with the idea of a 300 but uncertain about bellows; haven't really done my research on that yet, am quite new to LF). Have seen many lenses on ebay, but most would entail shipping from Japan - hesitant, if it needs to be returned.

Now the following lens is for sale at 20 min drive from my home:
1. R-stock Sinar Sinaron SE 210/5.6, 'as new' for 1000 Euro (about the same in USD, I think).

Then, I just saw this on sale today:
2. Nikkor 300 f9 M, 'as new', for 700 USD (with shipping from US (to Europe), and customs on top, it will cost me as much as the Rodenstock).

What to do? Any views?
Best,
Anette

[peter brooks]

This doesn't answer your specific question but this page on large format portrait lenses is a good read:

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/portrait-lenses/

[abruzzi]

personally, I'd look for reletively fast tessar based lens. They don't have a wide angle of coverage, but for a 240, or even a 210mm on 4x5 that won't be an issue. And tessar based lenses can be reletively fast and tend to look great even close to wide open and have nice out of focus rendition. I think the 250/4.5 Fujinar mentioned above is a tessar. I have a nice 210/6.1 Schneider Xenar which is also a tessar design, and they can be found for pretty cheap.

[AnetteB]

Thank you to all for all these messages. I almost pulled the trigger on a Schneider 210/5.6 APO Symmar, available on that Finnish site that Niels and the person in Oslo recommended, for just a little bit more than half the price of the Rodenstock I was considering. But now hesitating again. I have no idea, to be honest, what the difference is between a tessar and a plasmat design, but I'll google that one. With the advice from Bernice, Drew and abruzzi, I'll widen my search to include 250/4.5 Fujinar, Fuji 250/6.3 , perhaps 210/6.1 Schneider Xenar, and would really want to find a lense in Europe. But am impatient too... want a bit longer lens.. like yesterday.

[xkaes]

The Fujinar 25CM and the Fujinon 250MM are both 4 elements in 3 groups Tessar lenses. They are both simple, but fast f4.5 lenses and produce sharp results stopped down -- and are inexpensive -- BUT they were sold as BARREL lenses. That means you have to get a shutter to work with it. That not big obstacle, but it makes things a little more complicated for you.

That's why I suggested the Fujinon NW 250MM f6.3 which comes with a shutter. It is NOT a Tessar and has a 6/4 design, costs more, and is sharp at all f-stops.

See: http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm (http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm)

[r.e.]

You're unlikely to come across a Docter Optic tessar, but if you do, and if it's reasonably priced, give it a good look. These lenses were made from 1991 to 1996. Arne Cröll wrote an essay about them, which you can download as a .PDF from his website: Large Format Lenses from Docter Optic 1991-1996 (https://www.arnecroell.com/docter.pdf).

In the essay, the lenses that might interest you are under the heading Tessar/Doctar. I have the 210mm f/4.5 with a Copal 3 shutter.

[xkaes]

In the essay, the lenses that might interest you are under the heading Tessar/Doctar. I have the 210mm f/4.5 with a Copal 3 shutter.

That's a good point -- Tessars, even though inexpensive, require larger shutters due to their "speed".

[Bernice Loui]

Hello Anette,

Had a look at your web page to get some sense of your portrait style.
https://www.anettebrolenius.com/225288733/corinne-weeda-hoogstad-director-reporting-at-achmea

Based on the portrait images posted, seems a 210mm Schneider Xenar would fit well into your portrait work. This lens suggestion is based on your EU location (Fujinon was not well distributed in the EU, similar applies to Nikkor), portrait work, and some sense of how you might use lens/camera from your other images posted. Longer focal length can be had at a later time depending on how the 210mm works for you. Know 210mm is one of the most common lens focal lengths for 4x5.

Did a quick look on eBay.de (Germany) came up with this 210mm f6.1 Schneider Xenar. This specific example is the last version before Schneider discontinued production of the Xenar. Schneider has made variations of the Xenar (Tessar design) since about 1920 (uncoated) to the late 1990's (black copal shutter, possible multi-coated). There are very good reasons why the Xenar remained in production for so many decades, demand and the images it produces. Only negative to the copal shutter versions is the non-round iris, but the black shutter speed rim copal shutters were the last versions made by copal.

What you need is a proper fully functional lens that does as expected, causes no shutter grief allowing you to focus on producing portraits.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/185338590601?hash=item2b270a7589:g:tNsAAOSwWHJiLrEg


Bernice





I'll widen my search to include 250/4.5 Fujinar, Fuji 250/6.3 , perhaps 210/6.1 Schneider Xenar, and would really want to find a lense in Europe. But am impatient too... want a bit longer lens.. like yesterday.

[Bernice Loui]

Tessar became one of the most common lens designs made for a long list of very good reasons. Due to their large aperture, they tend to come in big shutters as their focal length goes up. Decided to add a 210mm f4.5 Xenar to the 150mm and 100mm Xenar used on the Linhof Technikardan 23s. Ended up with this 210mm f4.5 xenar in a Compound shutter (preferred due to the round iris).
225823

Schneider did make the 210mm f4.5 in a Copal# 3 shutter (not common).
https://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Schneider-Kreuznach-Technika-Xenar-210mm-F-4-5-Lens-29325-B5/133535338411

Big lens similar to the 210mm f4.5 Fujinar.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284711761163?hash=item424a24b50b:g:8QwAAOSwEYliNfCf


Bernice



That's a good point -- Tessars, even though inexpensive, require larger shutters due to their "speed".

[Oslolens]

to include 250/4.5 Fujinar, .
The Fujinars in shutters looks nice, the Copal and some of the shanel shutter are missing the flange. The Copal has 7 blade aperture while the Shanel has many making the aperture more round.

The Shanel and Copal #3 comes at a weight penalty, for some photographer, that's important.



Edit: 7 blade, not 5

[r.e.]

That's a good point -- Tessars, even though inexpensive, require larger shutters due to their "speed".

Yes, my 210mm f/4.5 Docter Optic weighs 565g. It's a modern lens made from 1991-96 and uncommon, which means that finding one that's cheap is a matter of luck. Arne Cröll's essay about these lenses (post #17) is very good.

Docter Optic is a going concern, it just doesn't make large format lenses anymore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docter_Optics

[AnetteB]

Thanks for all the advice, guys! Very nice of you to take the time to provide such detailed advice - much appreciated. I've just bought a Fujinon W 250/6.3. I'll start with this, as I have the idea (and several of you too) that this focal length best suits my type of portraiture and what I'm used to work with in FF digital. I may still in due course get a 210mm as first planned (but not the 1000 euro one!). A good day and week to all!

[AnetteB]

Oh, I have another Q actually - I'll post that here too instead of starting another thread. My 150mm is in a recessed board (came with the camera, Linhof MT, when I bought it). I find it a bit fiddly to attach the cable sometimes. Is a recessed board really needed for this lens?
?

[Oslolens]

Oh, I have another Q actually - I'll post that here too instead of starting another threat. My 150mm is in a recessed board (came with the camera, Linhof MT, when I bought it). I find it a bit fiddly to attach the cable sometimes. Is a recessed board really needed for this lens?
?Not for the lens, only for packing. Get a cable extender type Gepe.

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[MartyNL]

Oh, I have another Q actually - I'll post that here too instead of starting another thread. My 150mm is in a recessed board (came with the camera, Linhof MT, when I bought it). I find it a bit fiddly to attach the cable sometimes. Is a recessed board really needed for this lens?
?

Do you happen to know if the 150mm lens has a "cam" so you can use your MT as a rangefinder?

It may also be necessary if you wish to be able to close the camera with the lens fitted.

[xkaes]

One approach is to buy a used FLAT, generic board for your 150mm -- bout $15. Then sell your recessed board. You'll make some money, and if the recessed board has a brand name -- quite a bit of $$$.

[Bernice Loui]

Hello Anette,

No need for using a recessed lens board with a 150mm lens. These recessed lens boards are designed and intended for short focal length lenses to aid in reducing the need for camera and bellows compression needed to achieve focus with these short focal length wide angle lenses on cameras like the Technika.

Using a recessed lens board creates lens shutter access problems like connecting a cable release to accessing the shutter controls. There are Linhof and other brand add-on do-dads like shutter control extensions and cable release extender sockets and such to helper this problem with recessed lens boards.
Use recessed lens boards only when absolutely needed.

Suggest to get a standard flat lens board for the 150mm lens. This will solve the shutter control and cable release problem imposed by the recessed lens board.

The Technika lens board style has become popular with other brands from Linhof to Toyo. Technika style lens boards are essentially interchangeable. Non Linhof lens boards can be of much higher cost-vs-value than the OEM Linhof. Know some OEM Linhof lens boards are slightly oversized for Linhof camera causing a lens board to Linhof camera fitment problem. The solution is to file down the lens board to camera fitment area until the Linhof lens board fits properly and easily on to the Linhof camera. This was a problem encountered with OEM Linhof lens boards to Linhof Technikardan 23s.
225863

Not had this lens board fitment problem with Toyo and other non Linhof lens boards.

IMO, current best value for non Linhof Technika style lens boards are from LuLand:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185053446660?hash=item2b160b8204:g:euQAAOSwr-hdmdfo

The off center hole is native to the Technika to aid in centering the optical center axis to the Technika's ground glass and film plane. The off center lens board is not an absolute requirement. Centered hole lens boards works very often good.

LuLand lens boards also comes in a set:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/182878390623?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



:)
Bernice











My 150mm is in a recessed board (came with the camera, Linhof MT, when I bought it). I find it a bit fiddly to attach the cable sometimes. Is a recessed board really needed for this lens?

[Alan Gales]

I looked at your website that Bernice posted. I fully agree with Bernice that a 210 should fit what you do now.

I used to have a Tachihara with a 13" belows draw. I could do head and shoulder shots with a 250mm lens at full extension of the bellows.

I also at one time owned the 300 M Nikkor you mentioned. It is a sharp and contrasty lens and makes for a great landscape lens. It would be brutal however for a head shot of someone. Some people like that and some don't.

If you want to do studio portraits then pick up a cheap used monorail like the Sinar F series, Toyo, or Cambo/Calumet series. You will have all the bellows you need for head or head and shoulder shots.

[AnetteB]

Thanks again for advice!. A follow-up Q: I decided on, and got hold of, a Fujinon 250 mm 6.3. I am now wondering where to put the little infinity stops (on the Linhof MT thus) - at 250mm from the filmplane? Is that a 'short cut' or is it by simply testing?

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks again for advice!. A follow-up Q: I decided on, and got hold of, a Fujinon 250 mm 6.3. I am now wondering where to put the little infinity stops (on the Linhof MT thus) - at 250mm from the filmplane? Is that a 'short cut' or is it by simply testing?

Be careful with the infinity stops. The screws in them have a sharp point which will dimple into the rails. Put the stops in the wrong place will leave dimples in the rails. If you don’t know how to install them let a service center position them correctly.

[maltfalc]

Thanks again for advice!. A follow-up Q: I decided on, and got hold of, a Fujinon 250 mm 6.3. I am now wondering where to put the little infinity stops (on the Linhof MT thus) - at 250mm from the filmplane? Is that a 'short cut' or is it by simply testing?

keep the focus rails all the way back and locked then adjust your front standard while focusing on the moon or something else really far away.

[Bob Salomon]

Be careful with the infinity stops. The screws in them have a sharp point which will dimple into the rails. Put the stops in the wrong place will leave dimples in the rails. If you don’t know how to install them let a service center position them correctly.

Linhof supplies a test chart that you tape to a window, then set the camera on a tripod a specific distance away. You then compare sharpness on the gg and the rangefinder until they agree ad that is where the stops go.

[Neal Chaves]

Range finder press and view cameras like the Technika, Graphic and others, do not have focus on the back, so they are awkward to use for close portraits with ground glass focusing and composition. Successful portrait use with RF cameras requires an accurate, parallax-correcting viewfinder and a lens that produces a good head size without a lot of extension, which makes the camera cumbersome to handle. Telephoto lenses are suggested. I tried a 240mm lens on the Technika that was great for tight headshots on a 4X5 monorail and found it required too much extension and was unable to focus close enough with the Technika RF. Which ever longer than normal lens you choose for the Technika, you will still need a camera that focuses from the rear for tight portraits. A basic Toyo or other with a Technika adapter board would add only a small investment to your kit but greatly expand your capabilities.

I tried to set the Technika (a Master) up for "Big Shot" use that can be easily done with a Graphic, but it is not practical. Photo below is full frame 4X5 with 210mm lens RF-focused and accurately composed with open frame finder. The TRF Graphic is immediately ready for RF focus from 8 ft. to infinity on the same cam simply by setting the lens back on its infinity stops, rather than in the Big Shot configuration.
226018

[Neal Chaves]

Here's how you can make some nice head and shoulder compositions with the Master Technika. Get a Super Rolex Back for 6X9 on 120 film. Your 150 becomes a portrait length, and a 90mm or 100mm your normal. The finder on the Technika will be very accurate with the 6X9 mask, vertical or horizontal and you will be able to RF focus much closer and fill the frame. Print quality will be very close to 4X5 sheet film because the film is thinner and held flatter in the holder.

Working with a portrait subject, you could do three quarter and full length compositions on 4X5 sheet film with the 150mm, then just change the viewfinder mask and switch back to the 6X9 roll film.

[maltfalc]

Here's how you can make some nice head and shoulder compositions with the Master Technika. Get a Super Rolex Back for 6X9 on 120 film. Your 150 becomes a portrait length, and a 90mm or 100mm your normal. The finder on the Technika will be very accurate with the 6X9 mask, vertical or horizontal and you will be able to RF focus much closer and fill the frame. Print quality will be very close to 4X5 sheet film because the film is thinner and held flatter in the holder.

Working with a portrait subject, you could do three quarter and full length compositions on 4X5 sheet film with the 150mm, then just change the viewfinder mask and switch back to the 6X9 roll film.

if your advice to someone asking about large format photography is "shoot medium format", you might be on the wrong site.

[Neal Chaves]

Maybe someone can show some close portraits made with a Technika on 4X5 with a lens of 210mm or longer using the cam-coupled RF and the multi-focus finder, on or off a tripod, I'd like to see them and be happy to learn how it was done. The IP asked a question about making portraits with a Master Technika, a large format camera, with which I have had a great deal of experience. I shared that experience and don't feel that this is the "wrong site" on which to do that.

[Corran]

For a little while I used a 270mm Tele-Arton on my Technika IV, matched cam and RF focused, handheld. Just for fun.

I found the parallax-corrected viewfinder to work well. I actually like the design of the older finder compared to the newer one, but the newer one is more compact. Anyway, I know this isn't super close, but it's about as close as I generally wanted to shoot:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sOJ6TaTPE2E/UiIWsPmmHiI/AAAAAAAADzw/vLPjP8KJt9I/s700/happening-1311s.jpg

As a telephoto, bellows draw was reduced. I prefer a 150mm and full-body or 3/4 portraits more, so that's what I've used more (at the time, my 150mm was in the shop, so I used the 270).

[Neal Chaves]

A 270 tele is nice focused on the ground glass of a view camera when you get even closer, or even with a Technika which has plenty of bellows.

[AnetteB]

Thank you Corran, for advice and for sharing the photo (nice). I don't need to make tighter portraits than this - at least not for the project I now planning. I will start the project with the 250mm I recently bought (perhaps also the 150mm for comparison). I don't have cut cams for the lenses and will use a tripod (didn't buy the MT specifically for the rangefinder actually - I had been looking at several options for a field camera and this particular camera came up for sale in my neighbourhood, so jumped on the occasion..) . Now that I have 2 lenses I will send one to have the cam cut though as it seems practical, as an option. I have an old viewfinder but kind of use it just to get an idea of the scene and how to frame before I set the camera up. Then only work on the ground glass, but then again, I am still quite new to LF and am still finding my ways and routines are not set... About routines, I got a Q also on using ANR glass on the scanner, but will post that in the right forum..



For a little while I used a 270mm Tele-Arton on my Technika IV, matched cam and RF focused, handheld. Just for fun.

I found the parallax-corrected viewfinder to work well. I actually like the design of the older finder compared to the newer one, but the newer one is more compact. Anyway, I know this isn't super close, but it's about as close as I generally wanted to shoot:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sOJ6TaTPE2E/UiIWsPmmHiI/AAAAAAAADzw/vLPjP8KJt9I/s700/happening-1311s.jpg

As a telephoto, bellows draw was reduced. I prefer a 150mm and full-body or 3/4 portraits more, so that's what I've used more (at the time, my 150mm was in the shop, so I used the 270).

[AnetteB]

Hi Neal, thanks for the tips. When you say 'a basic Toyo', I presume you mean a monorail then? I have already, stashed away in a big box in a photo studio, a Sinar (P, I think), collecting dust to be honest. I am planning to do portraits in different parts of town, 'travelling' by bicycle (I'm based in the Netherlands...), ie gear in backpack, tripod attached to the bike.. So, the Sinar will stay in the box/be used in the studio only (or not). It was the mobility and ease of using the Linhof MT, that got me into LF.



Range finder press and view cameras like the Technika, Graphic and others, do not have focus on the back, so they are awkward to use for close portraits with ground glass focusing and composition. Successful portrait use with RF cameras requires an accurate, parallax-correcting viewfinder and a lens that produces a good head size without a lot of extension, which makes the camera cumbersome to handle. Telephoto lenses are suggested. I tried a 240mm lens on the Technika that was great for tight headshots on a 4X5 monorail and found it required too much extension and was unable to focus close enough with the Technika RF. Which ever longer than normal lens you choose for the Technika, you will still need a camera that focuses from the rear for tight portraits. A basic Toyo or other with a Technika adapter board would add only a small investment to your kit but greatly expand your capabilities.

I tried to set the Technika (a Master) up for "Big Shot" use that can be easily done with a Graphic, but it is not practical. Photo below is full frame 4X5 with 210mm lens RF-focused and accurately composed with open frame finder. The TRF Graphic is immediately ready for RF focus from 8 ft. to infinity on the same cam simply by setting the lens back on its infinity stops, rather than in the Big Shot configuration.
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[Neal Chaves]

Anette,

You are embarked on a great photographic adventure and will surely learn a great deal about equipment (tool) selection. You asked about putting the 150 on a flat board for easier release attachment. The 150 will only close up in the case of the Technika when mounted in a recessed board. Corran used a telephoto 270 for his photograph. The 250 Fujinon W you have will pull considerably more bellows. For ground glass focusing, this can be overcome with a good quality plus lens. Try it on the Sinar with an adapter board and get a feel for focusing from the rear and how much bellows is required. And have fun!

[Bernice Loui]

Hello Anette,

Previous Linhof Technika owner/user and a Sinar user for over three decades, these are two very different view cameras with distinct differences and capabilities/limitations. Technika can be used as a rangefinder cameras with cam_ed lenses given the rangerfinder is working properly. This was how many 4x5 press cameras were used back in those days. In this specific way of using a rangefinder 4x5, telephoto design lenses (Tele-Xenar, Tele_Arton, Tele-Fujinon, Tele-Nikkor and..) have a distinct advantage of needing less camera and bellows extension aiding stability and mobility of the 4x5 hand held rangefinder camera.

Using a Graflex Grafmatic sheet film holder allows six sheets of film to be run in camera without removing the film holder:
https://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/

This method of image-making is an extension of using a fixed lens camera like digital or roll film.

Sinar P, IMO is very much a studio-indoor camera with limited mobility. Sinar is a modular camera system that can be configured to meet virtually any view camera image making need as in these examples from decades gone by:
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/01338/01338.pdf

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/01388/01388.pdf
~Note the electronic strobe power required for these images and how contrast range is managed.

Sinar P is easily capable of meeting image making needs no Technika can, Technika is easily capable of making images not possible with the Sinar P. Point being both cameras have very different abilities and limitations, chose the one (tool) that meets your image making goals best.


The capabilities of a view camera is tied to viewing the image on the ground glass and using all the camera movements possible for a given image making need. This is where a GOOD view camera with sheet film has no equal relative to fixed lens digital or roll film cameras (there are tilt-shit lenses, but they have very real limits compared to a GOOD view camera system). Learning ground glass viewing and the ability to apply ALL possible view camera movements coupled with knowledge and understanding of lens capabilities and limits is what is needed to get the best out of sheet film. The comes the understanding and knowledge of film, film processing and print making. It is all a system and tools to achieve your image goals in mind.

This previous post from a Linhof book illustrates nicely how camera movements work and what they can and cannot do.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?164126-Importance-of-camera-movements-gt-Alan-amp-others-long-amp-Linhof


Bernice

[Bill Poole]

The OP states his 150mm lens is a 150/5.6 R-stock Sironar N. I routinely use this lens on a flat board on a Tech V and am able to close the camera with the lens installed.

[Neal Chaves]

The OP states his 150mm lens is a 150/5.6 R-stock Sironar N. I routinely use this lens on a flat board on a Tech V and am able to close the camera with the lens installed.

My Master Technika came new with a 150mm Symmar-S in a recessed board so it could fold in the case. Perhaps the later 150 Sironar N could fold on a flat board. Bob Salomon would have the answer. I have not used Linhof products for years but I wanted to caution the OP about the possibility before she changed boards.

[Bob Salomon]

My Master Technika came new with a 150mm Symmar-S in a recessed board so it could fold in the case. Perhaps the later 150 Sironar N could fold on a flat board. Bob Salomon would have the answer. I have not used Linhof products for years but I wanted to caution the OP about the possibility before she changed boards.

The 001015 recessed Comfort Board is the factory recommended board for the IV, V, Master, 2000 and 3000 Technikas.

[Bill Poole]

My Master Technika came new with a 150mm Symmar-S in a recessed board so it could fold in the case. Perhaps the later 150 Sironar N could fold on a flat board. Bob Salomon would have the answer. I have not used Linhof products for years but I wanted to caution the OP about the possibility before she changed boards.

Of course, understood, Neal.

"The 001015 recessed Comfort Board is the factory recommended board for the IV, V, Master, 2000 and 3000 Technikas."

Thanks for the clarification, Bob.