Ilford Promo Video for 8x10 Film

[r.e.]

Ilford published this video on YouTube a few days ago. It was made by Natalie and Andreas Oberg, who are special effects artists for computer games, and features Natalie Oberg, who is also an Ilford "Ambassador" and large format photographer.

Some Technical Stuff:
The camera is a Chamonix and the lens is a 150mm Schneider-Kreuznach Super-Symmar XL. The film is Delta 100. The video was shot with cameras that the Obergs use for special effects work - a RED Helium 8K Super 35 (https://www.red.com/dsmc2), and a Phantom High Speed Camera (https://www.phantomhighspeed.com/products/cameras/4kmedia/veo4k990) (1,000 fps) for slow motion.

If I have a criticism, it's that the Obergs and Ilford should have engaged a dialogue director/editor. I think that the delivery of the narration is too laid back, and that the narration and music are out of balance, making it harder than it should be at times to follow what Natalie Oberg is saying.

Apart from that, I like the film. It should get a lot of views.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVC8-W7C7dM

[Hugo Zhang]

Really nice and thank you for posting it!

[diversey]

I watched it a couple of days ago on YouTube. It is a nice video!

[Duolab123]

That's really a nice little movie. I love what Ilford is doing online. Brilliant, engaging short films.

[Tin Can]

Finally

old school meet new school

Grumpy Old Men was a MOVIE

'the finger'

[esearing]

Devils advocate says: They produced a Digital Video about analog film. Her pack did not fit all that well either so I am guessing they are near a road. There seems to be a trend to promote attractive women with cameras, when they show an outing with Drew W. I'll be impressed.

[linhofbiker]

I liked the "movie". It inspired me to do more with LF. At 77 I will not be climbing hills etc. But I should be able to take my giant (23+lbs) tripod, out of the car/truck and attach the 4x10 (modified Linhof Kardan TL) or the 5x7, a Linhof Bi Kardan, and take some shots. I wish it was easy to get some E6 developed! I still have a 10 sheet box of Provia in the freezer and a splitter (Fotoman) for easily making 4x10 sheets.

[r.e.]

Devils advocate says: They produced a Digital Video about analog film. Her pack did not fit all that well either so I am guessing they are near a road. There seems to be a trend to promote attractive women with cameras, when they show an outing with Drew W. I'll be impressed.

Of course they're near a road. It's a promo film, not a wilderness documentary. For one thing, there is no wilderness in Wales.

As the beginning of the film says, this was shot at Snowdonia. Snowdonia is a national park, but by American and Canadian standards it's tiny, a postage stamp. It's been settled by humans for at least 5,000 years, and there are 26,000 residents within the park. The drone shot shows footpaths and day hikers. Snowdonia is a popular destination.

The film was made by the two Obergs and an assistant, who are doing a shoot with two high-end digital filmmaking cameras, a drone, and the gear, including camera support gear, needed to operate them. It may well have taken more than a day to shoot this. The pack is probably full of foam or clothes or whatever as filler.

[Michael R]

Devils advocate says: They produced a Digital Video about analog film. Her pack did not fit all that well either so I am guessing they are near a road. There seems to be a trend to promote attractive women with cameras, when they show an outing with Drew W. I'll be impressed.

Wait a minute, are you calling Drew unattractive? :)

[ic-racer]

Devils advocate says: They produced a Digital Video about analog film. Her pack did not fit all that well either so I am guessing they are near a road. There seems to be a trend to promote attractive women with cameras, when they show an outing with Drew W. I'll be impressed.

Agree, however, there are already plenty of actual films shot on film of grumpy old men using 8x10 cameras.
225560
225561
225562
225563

[r.e.]

Devils advocate says: They produced a Digital Video about analog film.


Agree, however, there are already plenty of actual films shot on film of grumpy old men using 8x10 cameras.

The Obergs make their primary living from visual effects for computer games and films. I think that they own, as tools for their work, the RED Helium 8K and Phantom High Speed cameras that were used to shoot this film. Their involvement in digital game/filmmaking is buried in the video description. Personally, I would have highlighted that in the film itself, using it as the context for Natalie Oberg's work in large format. In other words, shooting this short with professional digital cameras could have been used to support the message. For some readers of the video description, it may tend to do just that, but with the "why" only implicit in the film. I would have connected the dots in the film, and been overt about the "why".

[AndreasOberg]

Hi everyone,
This is Andreas that filmed this short video. I just found this thread and thought I would add a bit of information.
First thanks for the kind words, this forum is inspiring and full of useful information.

First some technical details about the video
- Red Helium 8K. I mostly used a Canon EF 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200. I used a Kippertie Revolva filter to quickly switch between different ND filters which is fantastic.
Almost the whole video was filmed handheld because I quickly realized the tripod slowed us down too much.
We used a DJI Phantom 4 as our drone.
The main use of our video cameras is not actually VFX but wildlife video production.
I filmed the video, did colour grading and sound mixing. Natalie wrote the story and edited the video.
We have upgraded our setup since then to better be able to do these videos with a Red Raptor 8K, a Canon RF 24-70 2.8 with IS (great for handheld!) and a much improved (and heavier) Inspire 2 drone with “Hasselblad” lenses. We also have a Movi Pro modified gimbal which is fantastic but it's heavy and involving to use.

Some answers and thoughts:

It's a promo film, not a wilderness documentary.
Well. I filmed this as a documentary short and not as a commercial. We followed Natalie for 2 days as she is photographing, and I tried to capture the emotion of being there.
These type of documentaries makes the life harder for the photographer. During the making the film the photographer has pressure that they must take shots now, regardless of how the weather and light is, and the filming is also quite intrusive with retakes from different angles etc. I'm also a bit guilty since I made her walk up and down the mountain side a bit too many times to "get the perfect shot".


Devil’s advocate says: They produced a Digital Video about analog film.
I think it would have been a cool idea to make the video with film, but it’s also unrealistic.
My goal when I create videos is always to have as high image quality as possible, this video is mastered in 8K, and everything is shot in Red Raw.
To match that quality, we would need to use 35mm film. In total I filmed 7h of material for this documentary short. I do not know what it would cost to develop 7h of 35mm film or even 16mm film but I can imagine it would have been VERY expensive.

Personally, I think film for video can be exciting in cases such as these:
- You do a very romantic vintage looking video and use 8mm. The image quality will be extremely low but will look charming.
- You do a high-end cinema production and have near unlimited budget for 35 or 65mm film.


Her pack did not fit all that well either, so I am guessing they are near a road.

Of course they're near a road. The film was made by the two Obergs and an assistant, who are doing a shoot with two high-end digital filmmaking cameras, a drone, and the gear, including camera support gear, needed to operate them. It may well have taken more than a day to shoot this. The pack is probably full of foam or clothes or whatever as filler.

This backpack is Karrimor SF Predator 80-130L with several extensions, in total it is about 160L.
Natalie uses it for almost all her 8x10 Photography and when she works as a wildlife camera operator.
I also have the same one that I use to carry our extremely heavy long lenses (our main lens is 7kg) and food, tents etc.
I highly recommend the backpack. An oh yea no foam, we don't fake stuff ... because you will always know it was fake and someone on the internet forums will always point it out. :)

The film was sadly not shot near a road. If you look on some of the pictures you can see a valley below, that is where the car is.
In totally we had about 80-100kg that was split between 3 people, so it was a grueling task to carry it all up to the mountain.
With no backpack maybe the walk would have been one hour, but with all equipment it took hours. In total we spent 2 days walking up and down this mountain.
We often deal with heavy equipment. The way we do is we carry the equipment up and then we place it all strategically so that we do not have to carry it all in the backpack all the time, which is probably why you think it does not fit so well. It is often a good idea to still carry the backpack when shooting since you have all the equipment in it such as light meters, filters, and it also protects the equipment from water damage that can happen if you place it on the ground.
What I have found that for more serious film making and photography logistics is the biggest challenge.
To be able to carry our gear we would sometimes fill our backpacks with stones or gym weights and carry them around on walks. Sometimes I would take our cinema tripods and just walk around with them in my hands to get used to them (the tripod we use is 18kg). We have done some tough trips before like walking with 36kg backpack in 42C jungle or bringing 250kg of video equipment to a penguin colony in 80mphs strong wind gusts, but if I'm honest I think this was the most tiring shot I have ever done. If I would do it again, I would try to bring less equipment or indeed be near a road. Sadly, roads are rarely considerate enough to be close to good photo locations!
"There seems to be a trend to promote attractive women with cameras, when they show an outing with Drew W. I'll be impressed. "
First the goal of the movie is not really to impress but more to inspire so hopefully more young and old can share this joy of photography.
Inspiring others can make such a big difference. I remember a few times in my life when I got shown professionals working and I would think "I want to do that!" and it changed my life for the better. If those videos did not exist, I would have missed out so much.
It’s important that we get more young photographers using film so that the skill does not die out. One day these old masters will no longer be here.
I also think it is easy to think that being a young woman is a huge benefit in photography, video
etc, but I have seen the other side. Often especially men will dismiss young women no matter their skill. I have countless examples but do not want to sound grumpy about grumpiness :)
Hopefully that is an attitude that we can all improve on and be a bit more inclusive.


Their involvement in digital game/filmmaking is buried in the video description. Personally, I would have highlighted that in the film itself, using it as the context for Natalie Oberg's work in large format. In other words, shooting this short with professional digital cameras could have been used to support the message. For some readers of the video description, it may tend to do just that, but with the "why" only implicit in the film. I would have connected the dots in the film and been overt about the "why".

I think that is an interesting idea and would have made for a good story. When we make videos the most important question we start with is "what is this movie really about?". Natalie is also an illustrator, a VFX artist, a writer, a wildlife film maker and a psychologist so there are lots of topics that could be brought in, but I think it would have diluted the core message. In the end Natalie decided to focus on her large format photography experience.

If you are curious about our VFX work there is a BTS video about our work for Sea of Thieves (just google it).
Anyway, I hope that gave a little bit of insight about the shot. If you have any more questions, I’m happy to answer. You can find out more about Natalie’s work on her Instagram as well.

Best,
Andreas Oberg
Oberg Wildlife, Visual Forest

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well, I enjoyed it. We have terrain like that in Canada, but it's so remote you need either a float plane to get to it, or ship. Thanks!

[MartinP]

Somehow I had missed the video in the couple of years since it was published. Well done Andreas and Natalie.

In case anyone wants to find the main location it is Cwm Idwal. The upper lake is Llyn Idwal while the lake in the valley, the Ogwen Valley, is Llyn Ogwen and the road is the A5. The mountain to the distant right of the valley shots is Tryfan, then the peaks coming back towards the upper lake are the Glyders.

A very nice (long) day out is the North Ridge on Tryfan, down to Bwlch Tryfan, up Bristly Ridge to the Glyders, descend in to Cwm Idwal and then down the marked 'nature route' to the small visitor-centre, car-park and Youth-Hostel. But I certainly wouldn't want to carry 30kg of camera gear on such a day out!

I am lucky that my sister lives in a 650 year old farmhouse, on a different mountain within the National Park. When I visit, it is usually raining or snowing, oh well.

[ckleib]

"I filmed this as a documentary short and not as a commercial." and "no foam, we don't fake stuff" but also "I made her walk up and down the mountain side a bit too many times to "get the perfect shot"."

yeah, those things don't add up to me. I wish filmmakers would admit when it's a commercial promo film, which is totally fine to do. Or actually shoot a documentary like a documentary.

[Durst L184]

I think it would have been a cool idea to make the video with film, but it’s also unrealistic.

The word choices above speak volumes.

How does a man lose his character?
One compromise at a time.

Let me recommend Man with a Movie Camera (1929)

[interneg]

Or actually shoot a documentary like a documentary.

Possibly for the best that you remain clueless about how the sausage is made.

Wait till you find out what a noddy shot is...

[paulbarden]

yeah, those things don't add up to me. I wish filmmakers would admit when it's a commercial promo film, which is totally fine to do. Or actually shoot a documentary like a documentary.

So, you don't think that "real" documentaries ever do multiple takes in certain circumstances to make sure they got an important scene right?? You've never been on a film set, have you.

[John Layton]

Ha! My own family was the subject of a "reality" television show years ago ("Switched" on the Family Channel) - and man oh man..."reality" it aint!

I've also worked on a number of film sets doing stills (if you can find "Return to Salem's Lot" by Larry Cohen - what a hoot that was!)...and am amazed and astounded by all that goes into keeping things on track and dealing with constant logistical/human hurdles - just keeping the damn cameras/lights/booms, non-actors (like myself on one occasion!) etc. out of the filmed area...so much work!

And I totally am in awe of those who post their videos here (hats off to you Andrew O'Neil!) of themselves working in both field and darkroom as they narrate and educate the rest of us. Huge sacrifice of time and energy. I often think I'd like to do a bit of this myself...but then again - maybe not!

So...a big thanks to the Obergs for making the effort to give us this film!

[ckleib]

Possibly for the best that you remain clueless about how the sausage is made.

Wait till you find out what a noddy shot is...

I've been filming and editing documentary films for 15 years. I'm good on the sausage.

[ckleib]

So, you don't think that "real" documentaries ever do multiple takes in certain circumstances to make sure they got an important scene right?? You've never been on a film set, have you.

You all make a lot of assumptions about someone you know nothing about. It's bizarre. Yes, I've been on commercial sets and documentary for 15 years. They are different.

[paulbarden]

You all make a lot of assumptions about someone you know nothing about. It's bizarre.

No more than the assumptions you are making about Ilford's goals and intentions!

[John Layton]

Wow, would never have guessed - popcorn and sausage...great combo! :rolleyes:

[AndreasOberg]

Well, I enjoyed it. We have terrain like that in Canada, but it's so remote you need either a float plane to get to it, or ship. Thanks!
Thanks, Canada sounds lovely. We were really close to moving to Canada for the wilderness. I hope to visit the country soon!

[AndreasOberg]

Somehow I had missed the video in the couple of years since it was published. Well done Andreas and Natalie.

In case anyone wants to find the main location it is Cwm Idwal. The upper lake is Llyn Idwal while the lake in the valley, the Ogwen Valley, is Llyn Ogwen and the road is the A5. The mountain to the distant right of the valley shots is Tryfan, then the peaks coming back towards the upper lake are the Glyders.

A very nice (long) day out is the North Ridge on Tryfan, down to Bwlch Tryfan, up Bristly Ridge to the Glyders, descend in to Cwm Idwal and then down the marked 'nature route' to the small visitor-centre, car-park and Youth-Hostel. But I certainly wouldn't want to carry 30kg of camera gear on such a day out!

I am lucky that my sister lives in a 650 year old farmhouse, on a different mountain within the National Park. When I visit, it is usually raining or snowing, oh well.
It was a lovely place, thanks for naming it. I recommend anyone to visit it. It is a solid walk, I recommend to do with lighter backpacks. :)

[AndreasOberg]

"I filmed this as a documentary short and not as a commercial." and "no foam, we don't fake stuff" but also "I made her walk up and down the mountain side a bit too many times to "get the perfect shot"."

yeah, those things don't add up to me. I wish filmmakers would admit when it's a commercial promo film, which is totally fine to do. Or actually shoot a documentary like a documentary.

Could you elaborate what you mean? What does not add up? How do you "shot a documentary as a documentary"?
Happy to answer any questions.

Cheers,
Andreas

[AndreasOberg]

The word choices above speak volumes.
How does a man lose his character?
One compromise at a time.
Let me recommend Man with a Movie Camera (1929)

Filming with a red camera is hardly a "compromise". It is my favorite video camera. The dynamic range, the colors, the slow motion possibilities and the pure detail level is fantastic and the workflow is nice too. For most jobs it is a better artistic tool than film would be (at least for me). My main camera today is the Red Raptor that has even wider dynamic range with a larger sensor (Vista Vision) and can film in 120fps in 8K which opens up a lot of creative doors. But of course if you prefer making videos with film I applaud that too. The most important is finding tools that you are passionate about (and can get the job done).