buying a new field camera

[Joseph O'Neil]

Hi all;
I have a 4x5 monorail, but most of the time, backpacking, I use my super speed graphic as my field camera. Quite nice - it has pretty much all the front movements you want , and a rotating back, but no back movments other than that. If I need more movement than my super graphic has, then I go get my monorail.

I want to save my $$ and buy a new field camera someday (even if it is used - it'll be new to me :).

Question - what/which field cameras would you guys reccomend, given the very murky and nebulous parameters I have set about. As for lens use, I use 90mm to 300mm in my backpack. as for how much I am looking to spend, I suppose that will be a balance between what I need, what comes up available, and how long I want to save up for it, and how crazy I am at spending a minor fortune on new lensboards. :)

So, if you wanted to replace a super speed graphic with something that has rotating backa nd other back movements, any ideas?
thanks
joe

[Ralph Barker]

You might take a look at the Toyo 45AX, AII, or the older A if you like metal field cams. They're essentially the same, feature-wise, except the AX has the manually rotated back versus the 360° rotation, lighter and less expensive. They come up used on eBay frequently.

For wooden field cameras, look at the Shen Hao and the Tachihara.

[Bill McMannis]

Joseph,

Technikardan will give you a compact camera for backpacking and plenty of movements. You get monorail movements with a folding package. They are coming up with some frequency on Ebay and for a lot less than I paid for mine a year and half ago. The Technikardan 45S is the new version. The Technikardan45 is much the same camera, but without the zero detents.

Bill

[austin granger]

Given your parameters, a Toyo 45AII comes to mind. Not the most exciting camera in the world if you're into looking AT your camera, and perhaps a little heavy compared to wood, but still a perfectly good tool. There are tons of used ones out there that can be had pretty cheaply.

[austin granger]

Wow, in the time it took for me to type my response and post it, it was already redundant; you guys are fast!

What Ralph said.

[Bill_1856]

Get a nice, used Linhof Technika (V or Master). Make sure the bellows is good. But franky I don't believe that you really need to replace that wonderful old Super Graphic with anything. It's light. It's rugged. It's reliable. It has everything but independent back movements, and personally I never use them anyhow.

[steve simmons]

If you are going to use a 300mm lens you will need a camera with more than 12" of bellows. Check tomake sure something you are about to buy will accommodate this lens. Also, with a 90nn make sure the camera you select will let you use the movements you desire. Some people will say yes but then ask what they are photographing and see how that fits your interests. Architecture will require more movements than landsape. If landscape is your interest then most of what you will use will be front tilt and/or back tilt and maybe a little front rise.

Depending on your time frame and where you live the View Camera conference in Rockford, IL (just outside Chicago) would be a good place to look at a lot of equipment in one place. The dates are June 9-11. The trade show and Speed Dating a Camera session on Saturday evening are free. The program is on our web site www.viewcamera.com. There are also several articles in the Free Articles section that might be helpful to you.

steve simmons

[Joseph O'Neil]

Hi guys;
thanks much so far. To Bill - no fear, I doubt I will ever get rid of the super graphic, but one of the reasons I am looking at a newer camera is my super grpahic is kinda beat up. I bought it used that way. By comparison, my crown graphic and my graphic view monorails are in litterally mint condition - both weere purchased (seperately) form estate sales. The monorail was used for 4 shots (I have the used box of film from the 1950s with the 4 sheet missing - it was still there) and frankly, if you get one as good as I did, you'll never look arond for anything else. I often think the main reason the graphic view monorials don't have a better rep is becasue - at least the majority of the ones I ahve seen - are pretty much beaten up from use.

So that's my main problem here, while the bellows is tight on my super graphic, I keep replacing, repairing, tighting, etc. One reason I carry a couple small tools and a rool of electrical tape with me where ever I go.

As for my 300mm lens, I coudl live without it, or as in the case of my 380mm (one of those old, monster Wollensaks) I would use my Crown - it seems to handle it better.

- Steve - as far as your conference goes, there isn't a day I don't lust after the idea of attending. Convincing the wife that I need to spend the money on that before a new stov e- well, there's another matter. I still haven't figured out how to justify a new field camera, whiel I am at it. How do you guys all do it - or do you as the old saying goes, "easier to ask for forgiveness than permission"?
:)

I do need to get out more and see more, but while I know there are other 4x5 shooters locally - 4x5 enlargers disappear from the local camera stores, and View Camera magazine disappears off the shelf, LF shooters seem to be a solitary lot around here. I'll see what I can do about getting to the VC conference in Chigaco, and /or th eAPUG conference in Toronto too.
joe

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Joe,

You have a lot of great responses here.

But of course, here is my 2 cents worth:

1) Decide what you love to photograph and get a camera to support your vision
2) Decide what your favorite lenses are and get a camera to support your lens kit
3) Decide what your budget is and make sure to live within this budget

There are several really good cameras that come up on the auction sites, it is just a matter of time before you find what you need.

The Toyo's are very popular and are usually a good buy. Also, I think a later model Zone VI would be a good bet for you, as well as a Tachihara. You could also look at getting an older 5X7 camera with a 4x5 reducing back which can often be found for a good price and then would give you an option of using 5X7 for contact printing or 4X5 for enlarging, all of your lenses should cover 5X7 from what I can tell. Given time, you should be able to find a great camera for your needs on the used market for well under $1,000 ( The Tachihara is way under this price new).

The biggest challenge for anyone looking for a new camera is actually being able to see and touch one before buying! So, you are being smart in getting feedback from the very talented photographers on this forum ( excluding myself of course!).

Thanks for the post and good luck!

Eric

[Patrik Roseen]

I'm very happy with my Linhof Technika III wich has long bellows and back movements. I use the backmovements all the time when doing landscape, it's such an easy way to adjust the plane of focus in one and the same move. Even at times when you want to restore perspective...you only need to tilt the camera forward or backwards and fine tune the tilt of the front lens. The way the Technika is designed you can always insert the filmholder regardless of backward tilt - this is not the case with my Linhof Kardan Standard where the standard is in the way of inserting the filmholder unless in portrait position. Good luck.

[CXC]

I assume you are shooting landscape when you backpack? If so, take a close look at the Shen-Hao and/or Tachihara. These are beautiful and completely adequate cameras, and reasonably priced. Make sure you need something they don't provide before getting tempted by something else at double the cost or more.

I also noticed a recent flood of Technikardans on eBay. This is a very attractive backpack camera for monorail lovers, if you can afford it. Also, I suspect this is the tip of the iceberg -- I expect a flood of higher-end LF stuff to hit the used market someday soon, depressing all prices. But that's just my hunch. Anyways, if you end up waiting more than a couple months before buying, best to check eBay again for an update on the marketplace.

[Bill_1856]

Joseph, like you my GVII and TR Crown are near mint, but the Super is, like yours, kinda beat up although functional. I've had three Supers and they have all been that way. In fact, I've never seen a Super which doesn't look beat up. Part of the reason is all that aluminum cladding, which dents and scratches easily and looks discolored. But I think Graflex made a big mistake when they had it designed from scratch by an Industrial Designer rather than continuing evolution of the old Crown/Speed. Unfortunately hindsight -- water over the dam.

Incidentally, the weight of a Technika, less lens, is the same as a Speed, which is one pound more than a Crown.

[Merg Ross]

Redundant indeed, but another vote for the Toyo A series. In my case the AX, and I use lenses from 90mm to 270mm although my preferred are the 125mm and 210mm. Manual orientation of the back is a very simple procedure and, as pointed out, the rotating back adds weight and cost. The above posts give excellent advice and I am sure you will receive more. Experience has taught me that there is no such thing as the ideal camera.

[Scott Rosenberg]

imho, there is no finer field camera than the linhof technikas. i have a master technika 2000 on which i use lenses from 58mm (on a flat board) to 450mm (on an extension lens board). look for one used, tech IV or later - jim at midwest photo exchange usually has a few on hand.

scott

[Bruce Watson]

Since you already have a monorail, why not a field monorail? (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm) And, it's the lightest commercially available view camera I know of.

I've been using one for three years now. It's just an excellent camera. It of course has its quirks like all cameras do, but I find it just about perfect for backpacking landscape work. That it has full movements front and back make it a good camera for light architectural work as well. I use mine with lenses from 80mm to 360mm (takes a top-hat lens board). It should handle 300mm without a problem.

For those of you too lazy to follow the link (that is, people like me) I'm talking about a Toho ;-)

[Brian Ellis]

Your parameters are so wide it's difficult to make specific recommendations. But there's no need to dispense with your 300mm lens. Many LF cameras will handle that focal length and longer. Even the 13 inch bellows extension of the Tachihara will work with that lens, you'll just be limited to focusing no closer than about 10 feet which with a 300mm lens isn't a big deal (at least it wasn't for me when I used my 300 mm lens on my Tachihara).

Tachiharas are very nice field cameras - light (about 4 pounds), well made, enough movements for most subjects (lacking only shift and back rise and fall), very flexible bellows that will allow you to use lenses as short as 65mm without the need for a bag bellows (though movements may be a little restricted at that focal length), and your wife shouldn't object at a price tag of about $700 new or maybe $400 used in excellent condition (I've been pricing stoves, most of them run over $1,000, some as high as $3000, so explain to her that you're saving money by purchasing a camera instead of a stove). Shen Hao's are similarly made and priced and have more movements but the bellows extension is only 12" unless you don't mind fiddling around with front axis and base tilts to gain another couple inches.

If you go up in price, say to maybe $1200 (bringing you into the stove price range : - )), then you open up the possibility of a used Linhof Technika IV or maybe V, Wisner Tech and Traditionals, possibly a used Canham metal, Zone VI new or used, and others that don't come immediately to mind and that will give you more bellows extension than you need for your 300mm lens and more movements than you'll probably ever use. I think buying a large format camera used makes a lot of sense, there aren't any hidden electronics or other stuff under the cover, everything is right there in front of you and most defects are pretty easy to spot.

Wistas, Toyos, and Horseman 4x5 field cameras are all very nice cameras but IIRC they have a 12" or shorter bellows and since you can find something longer for a relatively low price and avoid giving up your 300mm lens I'd forget about these three brands (unless my memory is wrong about their bellows extension). Some of the older 4x5 wood field cameras - Burke and James, Korona, Agfa Ansco, et al - can also be good buys at very low prices - $250 - $400 depending on condition. Make sure that the bellows is more than 12 inches, that the camera has front tilt (an important movement that's sometimes lacking in old wood field cameras), and that the bellows is light tight. On any used camera insist that the seller perform the flashlight-in-the-dark test on the bellows, don't let him or her get away with saying "it looks fine" or "last time I used it ten years ago it was fine."

[CXC]

Bruce, Gowland is still making his ultralight, and it remains the lightest of the light. Years ago he told me he was easing himself out of the camera business, yet I noticed about a month ago that he had updated his website, www.petergowland.com, refining his line a bit. Definitely the way to go if you want a LF camera you can stick in your overcoat pocket...

[David Karp]

It does not have a revolving back, but I recently purchased a Walker Titan SF and like it a lot. A real lot. Durable, a good tool, will allow you to use a 450mm lens, and is kind of neat looking in a different way than the wood fields. Well worth a look if you can get your hands on one.

[Scott Davis]

Definitely put the Shen Hao high on your list to consider. I have had one for five years now, and I have taken it all over the US, and shoot everything from portraits to architecture to landscape with it. I was worried about using a 300 mm with it, so when it came time, I got a Fuji 300T f8 lens from KEH. It was in like new condition, for about $500. It infinity focuses at around 175-200mm, so you can focus down to portrait range with it no problem. On the other end, I've shot with my Rodenstock 75 f6.8 on the camera, with the standard bellows still installed when I didn't need movements, or switched to the bag bellows when I needed movement. The bag bellows for the Shen are very nice- real leather, very soft and supple, and quite inexpensive - $99. With the bag bellows, you could infinity focus a 58mm on a flat lensboard, and probably use a 47mm with a recessed. The Shen Hao uses the standard Linhof/Wista lensboards, so if you get one first and decide later you need more camera, it's very easy to upgrade without having to replace any of your lensboards.

[steve simmons]

I always suggest a bellows at least 25% longer than the longest lens that is going to be used on a camera.

steve simmons

[Frank Petronio]

They're all good cameras that will do more than your Graphic, unless you use the rangefinder and focal plane shutter, which are pretty nice to have. In fact, combined with he Graphic View, it seems like a very nice and practical outfit, unless you need far lighter weight or want to induldge in a luxury item (if you can afford it more power to you).

If you're keeping the Speed anyway, I guess I'd look for something superlight, like a Tachihara or a Toho monorail (ala Kerry Thalman). Or get a luxury model like an Ebony or Linhof if you can.

Or just chuck them all and get one good all around perfect camera, like an older Arca-Swiss ($400) or a used Arca-Swiss Discovery ($900).

[Ken Lee]

Having owned and used a number of cameras of different kinds, I am now quite happy with my used Wisner Technical Field. It allows me to use my 450mm Fujinon C (not a tele) much closer than infinity, and my 240mm at so close to 1:1 that it's not an issue - and it's light and folds up small, just like the rest of them. Unless you're an alpinist, the difference in weight between the various field cameras is negligible, when considered along with the rest of your gear.

My only complaint about the Wisner is that I have to use off-center boards to get greater rise when needed. But big deal.

It's rather a nice-looking camera, and usually draws friendly people. (My Arca Swiss, being black metal, had the opposite effect). The Tachihara had the same effect. (Even better than that, is my restored 5x7 Kodak 2A. In this ice-cold age of alienation, the more 19th century-looking the camera, the more it attracts people and puts them at ease.)

Steve's advice about going to the conference is quite good, since as you know, every camera operates differently. One of the things I appreciate about the Wisner is that opening and closing it is much easier and simpler than what I experienced with the 4x5 Tachihara and 8x10 Shen-Hao. It's quick and simple enough, that I don't miss the Arca monorail - at least not that aspect of it.

You're much better off finding out the idiosyncracies yourself. What others despise, you might not even notice. (For example, the Arca focusing screens have their corners chopped off. I never liked that at all: it spoiled the art of composing for me. I'll bet there are plenty out there who hardly notice it, or appreciate that they can peer through the holes, and look for the lens.

[Bernard Languillier]

I am more happy than ever about my Ebony 45SU.

Expensive, but what other camera could resists a 2.5 meters fall on rocks like mine did a few month ago on a windy day along the San Juan river?

Cheers,
Bernard