Any film restoration experts here that can confirm if E6 is more archival than C-41?

[Certain Exposures]

I was staring at a 4x5 slide I developed last night, and I started wondering whether it or a C-41 negative would last longer. I did a quick search and found this YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUt2SrFVj_I) where the speaker references an issue of Photoklassica that stated (paraphrased) that E6 slides have an archival life of 200 years which is 3 to 4 times the lifespan of C-41. He mentions it at 3:20. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUt2SrFVj_I)

You could argue that I'll be dead long before my C-41 negatives noticeably decay. However, I do intend to leave a few treasures behind for posterity. I'm sure many of you do too. This information makes me more inclined to shoot more LF slides because they're comfortable to view. Medium format and 35mm slides are so much less enjoyable at a glance on a light table that I wouldn't mind sparing my sanity and sticking to C-41 for them.

Do any of you have good links to share (or personal experience) that confirm this claim by Photoklassica? I'm doing more research on archiving my work in general.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUt2SrFVj_I

[Oren Grad]

Start here:

http://wilhelm-research.com/book_toc.html

Yes, it's almost 30 years old now, but it will still provide essential context for anything else you read or hear on the topic.

[Tin Can]

Only yesterday I posted a 1964 slide film show in Tiny Format

It will outlive all of us

[interneg]

Both CD-3 (E-6, ECN-2, RA-4) and CD-4 (C-41) should be inherently very stable - but CD-4 is much more active as a developer & with the right couplers is probably more stable overall - if the appropriate stabilisers are used for the relevant coupler generations. Do not forget that not all C-41 film was processed in labs using a full wash & stabilisation setup - plenty was processed in machines that were washless & stabilisation only - while most E-6 went through a full wash/ stabilisation process - this will distort most of the routinely facile takes on the relative 'stability' of the materials.

And remember that Wilhelm was essentially an amateur researcher - and that it was seemingly threats of lawsuits in the 1970s that had forced Kodak to stick to CD-3 in the 1970s rather than going to CD-6 - and that there have been several coupler generations after Wilhelm published, most of which had probably been in active R&D for up to 5-10 years before they launched. So, don't take him as gospel, interrogate his approaches properly - and where he may unwittingly distort the narrative. The other external factor will have been the rise of colour photography as collectible fine art (as opposed to commercial commodity) and that will have had a far greater influence overall than most might assume.

[Oren Grad]

Don't read Wilhelm for "the answer" - a 28-year-old report cannot possibly provide a definitive take on the properties of today's materials, and the best methods for assessing stability continue to be a topic of debate. Do read it for historical context, for insight into the failure modes of color materials and the kinds of evidence that might be mustered for judging different aspects of stability, and to inform your thinking about how to critically evaluate claims made today.


...the speaker references an issue of Photoklassica that stated (paraphrased) that E6 slides have an archival life of 200 years which is 3 to 4 times the lifespan of C-41.

I consider such an unqualified claim highly suspect.

Anecdotal reports of individual experience aren't going to tell you much that's useful - too many uncontrolled variables.

[Bernice Loui]

Find/get a copy of that Photoklassica International article claiming "E6 slides have an archival life of 200 years which is 3 to 4 times the lifespan of C-41"

Photoklassica International has become SilvergrainClassics
https://silvergrainclassics.com/en/

~What did the author of the article in Photoklassica International used to support the claim of "E6 slides have an archival life of 200 years which is 3 to 4 times the lifespan of C-41" _?_

Not a lot new with film technology as film technology is a mature technology in many ways and it's best days have passed.

What is well proven, Kodachrome properly stored last a good long time. Color transparency films of old were not as stable and fade resistant as newer generations of color transparency films. E6 processing will impact the stability of the color transparency film, one factor not often considered these days of E6 processing via home DIY kits.

It is generally accepted the last generation of E6 color transparency films and processing had good stability over time, typically better than C41. No news there.


The Toy Story ... story:
https://www.romper.com/entertainment/toy-story-2-saved-woman-on-maternity-leave


Consider this article:
https://filmmakermagazine.com/96996-long-term-are/#.YhfSFxPMJI4


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

Hmmm .... Sounds like quite an expert. Did he actually live over 200 years to make that "archival" assessment about E6 slides; or if otherwise, where did he acquire a 200 year old color slide? Talk comes cheap. And the problem with generic stereotypes about C41 is not only that some of those films have significantly improved in recent decades, and that in the past, a huge quantity of color neg film processing was done by quickie mini-labs and so forth which really cut the corners in terms of quality control, proper washing etc.

Even with some of the best track records, like Kodachrome, IT ALL DEPENDS on both the quality of the original processing, and especially the STORAGE CONDITIONS, as well as how much projection a slide might have suffered. And overall, "archival lifespans" based on extrapolated 24 hr torture tests in special aging chambers are, at best, informed guesses involving only a limited set of variables. Take em all with a grain of salt.

[Kiwi7475]

Hmmm .... Sounds like quite an expert. Did he actually live over 200 years to make that "archival" assessment about E6 slides; or if otherwise, where did he acquire a 200 year old color slide? Talk comes cheap. And the problem with generic stereotypes about C41 is not only that some of those films have significantly improved in recent decades, and that in the past, a huge quantity of color neg film processing was done by quickie mini-labs and so forth which really cut the corners in terms of quality control, proper washing etc.

Even with some of the best track records, like Kodachrome, IT ALL DEPENDS on both the quality of the original processing, and especially the STORAGE CONDITIONS, as well as how much projection a slide might have suffered. And overall, "archival lifespans" based on extrapolated 24 hr torture tests in special aging chambers are, at best, informed guesses involving only a limited set of variables. Take em all with a grain of salt.

Ah, c’mon. It’s common practice in industry to perform accelerated testing …. Thermal cycles, accumulated UV exposure levels, etc… whatever environment is relevant is accelerated to quantify longevity without having to actually wait long times.

[jnantz]

Hmmm .... Sounds like quite an expert. Did he actually live over 200 years to make that "archival" assessment about E6 slides; or if otherwise, where did he acquire a 200 year old color slide? Talk comes cheap. And the problem with generic stereotypes about C41 is not only that some of those films have significantly improved in recent decades, and that in the past, a huge quantity of color neg film processing was done by quickie mini-labs and so forth which really cut the corners in terms of quality control, proper washing etc.

Even with some of the best track records, like Kodachrome, IT ALL DEPENDS on both the quality of the original processing, and especially the STORAGE CONDITIONS, as well as how much projection a slide might have suffered. And overall, "archival lifespans" based on extrapolated 24 hr torture tests in special aging chambers are, at best, informed guesses involving only a limited set of variables. Take em all with a grain of salt.


The image permanency institute has been doing accelerated age and archival testing for decades, they worked hand in glove with EK from what I remember.

They declared that RC prints processed correctly are more archivally stable than a fiber based print, and crystal archive prints the same thing.

[Drew Wiley]

Wilhelm was at his best when he was examining older movie film stock and so forth, where there was an actual track record of storage conditions and projection, etc. That was his key assignment anyway. I've done a great deal of my own testing, under various conditions, and remain quite skeptical of many conclusions, especially marketing-based over-optimism. For example, identical Ciba prints of mine kept away from UV even framed on walls look nearly brand new 30 years later; but those getting direct sunlight part of the day look like they needed to be embalmed a decade ago, kinda that "walking dead" look. It's all relative.

I recently took repossession of a number of large framed Crystal Archive Super C prints of mine exposed to less than ideal artificial light 18 hrs a day, plus a certain amount of overhead skylight sunlight. I originally overprinted them so that they'd look nearly perfect right now, 15 years later, and they do ... but another 15 years, under those same conditions, that would probably be the acceptable limit - 30 years total, not 70 like Fuji claims, or 200 like some galleries claim. I don't know how long those would have kept in dark storage. I might not live long enough for that answer. But given my extensive personal background with industrial pigments, architectural color consultation, and its own analogous kinds of accelerated aging tests, I stick to my original remark, "take it all with a grain of salt". Too many snake oil salesmen out there. Inkjet is no exception.

[Embdude]

I have a collection of my grandfathers slides and negatives going back to the 1920's. Of course the color E6 and C-41 date from the 1950's. The early E6 Stocks from the 1950's can be quite deteriorated. The Kodak stock seems best but all the Agfa and other stocks show major color loss and shifting. By the 1970's all the E6 stocks seem to hold up reasonably well. With the exception of the "commercial" slides, (something you would buy at a gift shop on vacation). These commercial slides have all faded and lost nearly all the colors except some faint reds. I have several sets of commercial slides spanning 4 decades and all have suffered this fate. The C-41 color negatives seem to have come out fine. I have less older ones and mostly all Kodak. The films that have fared the worst are the B&W safety film stocks from the 1940's some of these rolls have had the silver slide off the film and pool at the bottom of the can... Others have crazed and crystalized...

[rawitz]

I have a collection of my grandfathers slides and negatives going back to the 1920's. Of course the color E6 and C-41 date from the 1950's. .

The Kodak E6 process started 1976, before it was E4. Same with C-41 ...

[Mark Sampson]

The C-41 process was introduced by Kodak in June 1972, replacing the C-22 process. E-6 came out in the summer of 1976, replacing E-4 and eventually replacing the sheet-film E-3 process. The last Kodachrome process, K-14, was introduced in 1974, replacing K-12. There were previous Kodak processes before the ones mentioned, but they were before my time.

[EarlJam]

Based on the Ektachrome slides I inherited, Kodak made a marked improvement in color stability between 1961 and mid-1962. These images were taken with the same camera and stored under the same conditions.

225033 225034

[Bernice Loui]

Stability and archival of color images have changed greatly over it's history. To broadly state-claim-generalize E6 is superior over C41 as there are many variables that figure into this, NOT simple. Consider the Autochrome color image process dating back to about 1904 by Auguste and Louis Lumière.
https://blog.scienceandmediamuseum.org.uk/autochromes-the-dawn-of-colour-photography/

Then this very long list of color image materials:
https://filmcolors.org/cat/chromogenic-monopack/?sort=inventor-desc&records=all

Don't forget Dye Transfer print process and Technicolor for cinema and still images.


What is fact, last generation of color films before the market for color film collapsed was excellent in Many ways. Having the experience of working extensively with these last generation color films and print materials, was a real pleasure, rewarding and now looking back a place in Foto history that is not likely going to ever happen again. The preferences for color films were, if long term color stability and images that needed to be archived for historical reasons ended up on 120 roll film or less preferred 35mm Kodachrome processed by the best K14 labs from that time as it has a proven record of color longevity ands stability. There are boxes family Fotos on Kodachrome and they appear much the same as when they were produced. Ciba-Ilfordchrome images were produced in Agfachrome RS or initially Ektachrome then later Fujuchrome as Fuji began producing absolutely excellent color transparency films. Ciba-Ilfordchrome images hold up over time and abuse. Then Fuji introduced a series of color print materials that is surprisingly excellent. Kodak continued to improve their color materials due to the advances made by Fuji. These advances and improvements included longevity and color stability over time. C41 and similar color negative films were used for vast production color images .. of less significance. Know C41 negative to color print was THE most common means for color prints. Their stability varied LOTs.

IMO, it is folly to hold on to studies and information that does not apply to the specific image making materials as this IS over generalization in the worst way.
What is not so good about YouTube videos like this, they have the potential to spread mis-information and does not account for the very long history and extreme variety of color materials invented, produced and used over the decades.


Bernice

[interneg]

Kodachrome processed by the best K14 labs from that time as it has a proven record of color longevity ands stability.

Only if not subjected to projection for any significant time.

Kodachrome's main advantage was that it was drastically sharper at low frequencies than almost all other colour materials until the advent of DIR/ DIAR and subsequent coupler technologies in C-41 process materials. In terms of MTF & characteristic curve shape (not saturation/ colour contrast), K25 seems to have been the benchmark at which Velvia 50 was aimed.

[Drew Wiley]

Bernice - what is so so complicated about media like the related dye transfer and Technicolor processes is that all kinds of dye combinations could be used. Special movie sets ordered up special dye sets to match the costumes and decor. Dyes found to be relatively lightfast under intense split-second projection applications might prove poor under ordinary wall display print lighting. Prints that seemed to last forever in the dark in a limited edition portfolio box might fade easily within the period allotted for a gallery or museum exhibition of them, especially under the kinds of intense projector lighting popular in the 60's through 80's.

Now we've got all the inkjet myth nonsense and its alleged pigments. Well, every painter with an ounce of training knows that even if these were in fact totally pigment based (which they're not), not all pigments are created equal, no by a long shot. If you want truly permanent colorants, fly to the surface of Mars and collect the ones already UV-proven. Of course, you'll be limited to a rather limited palette of oxides, and probably none of those will fit through tiny inkjet nozzles. Those kind of oxides barely fit through house paint colorant machine nozzles. But if we can't rely on any photographic colorants lasting forever, we can take solace in the fact that at least one thing will remain - the mythology itself, and probably associated deceptive marketing too.

As far as Ciba: I could take two of the same print, use a popular spray adhesive of the day (in a sparkproof spray booth for testing purposes only, NEVER for routine usage - too deadly), display one under ordinary old-style tungsten bulbs, and it looked great 20 yrs later, while the other one behind window light completely faded in less than a week! That demonstrated the variable of a nasty once-popular adhesive itself. I did all kinds of comparison tests. Prints stored in the dark or hung in wall-reflected daylight still look like new after 40 years. But the same ones subjected to part-time direct sunlight or other intense UV sources now look wasted. All depends.
Ironically, the ones I specially hermetically sealed for sake of steamy bathrooms still look great too!

[bob carnie]

Now we've got all the inkjet myth nonsense and its alleged pigments. Well, every painter with an ounce of training knows that even if these were in fact totally pigment based (which they're not), not all pigments are created equal, no by a long shot. If you want truly permanent colorants, fly to the surface of Mars and collect the ones already UV-proven. Of course, you'll be limited to a rather limited palette of oxides, and probably none of those will fit through tiny inkjet nozzles. Those kind of oxides barely fit through house paint colorant machine nozzles. But if we can't rely on any photographic colorants lasting forever, we can take solace in the fact that at least one thing will remain - the mythology itself, and probably associated deceptive marketing too.

Drew

I have moved my complete personal printing colour and black and white to Pt Pd with gum bichromate tones on top - to full colour gum bichromate over palladium using The Wet Print pigments that are considered quite LF with a Blue Wool Scale of 8. I also do inkjet prints for contemporary art projects.

225057 - this is the brand new Cone Editions LED unit, we retrofitted it above our 33x 44 inch vacuum press. It has brought our exposures on large gums which are shown below from 25 min to 1.2 min.

225058- This is Michelle Huisiman from Vancouver Canada, working in my dim room last month and that is a tri colour gum over Palladium, and as you can see she is getting pretty damm good results


For my personal work I also do tri colours over pd and also a lot of multiple negative tonal shifts over palladium. 225059


We are very interested in any and all research in pigment structure and its Light Fastness, Colour Fidelity, light transmission capabilities ( I have been going down this wormhole for over 10 years and have been lucky enough to meet some very good mentors along the way like Sandy King, Ron Reeder . I can tell you that our working solutions (coating solution) would never make it through any printing heads that I am aware of but I do believe some very interesting methods of spray heads tied into flat bed tables will be incorporated in the coming future, as well a lot of research into various pigments, like earth colours, and even Drew space colours.

We are now looking at UV printers that allow us to print on any surface, I am quite interested in a few of the possibilities .. for example
-copper plates where we can print our images in register and take these plates off the printer and etch them for single and multiple colour
-Currently we use Epson printer to make single separation negatives that we then have to take to a stripping table and join together for multiple colour work. (PIA)
These units can be adapted with registration bars and using their sophisticated xy positioning one can make a set of 4 films already pre punched. ( YA )
- Ink jet prints on any type of material that allow the UV radiation to harden the surface , so that its scratch resistant with protective UV coatings. This will be of interest
to some of my clients that do extremely large prints to avoid glazing and mounting a substrate to diabond for example. In a museum or large gallery presentation this amounts to
over 700 $ per image which when added up in a 30 print showing is quite astounding amount of savings.
These units can be adapted with bright minds over the next few years to be able to do multiple coat , registered coatings for almost any application, and I hope to see the day where I am using
the best ground stone with simple process.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I certainly applaud your ongoing efforts, Bob. But there's still a quantum leap between working with just any colorants of good lightfastness and the elusive holy grail of a true set of CMYK nanopigments, a field which absolutely no pigment printmaker in history has ever addressed yet because the technology is just barely visible on the horizon. One of the advantages is that it equates to true visual transparency using actual pigment, the other, layers would bond far more reliably with less risk of failure over time. But alas, trying to find a non-organic process magenta is still the catch.

Or just go back to the tried and true old method : get elected Pope, loot all of Germany selling indulgences, re-mortgage the Vatican, and doing so, you'll be able to budget Michelangelo the necessary highest grades of real ground lapis lazuli, malachite, mercuric cinnabar, precious red coral, etc - the tried and true process colors. But then you'd have to increase your print prices to $700,000 per print instead of $700. Always these tough business decisions ... And not many apprentices want to grind toxic pigments by hand these days anyway; they're too busy playing video games.

[Michael R]

Drew, when you sell a print to somebody why don’t you simply up the price to include multiple versions precision-tuned to the customer’s display/storage conditions, such that each version essentially “ripens” to perfectly match the master version at time intervals following some non-linear function closely approximating the average aging curve for the particular image? Definitely an untapped niche market out there. I volunteer to apprentice with you. How far are you from Bakersfield?

[Drew Wiley]

Michael, if someone ordered something in advance, rather than during a gallery sale, and they were in the general area, I would in fact visit their display premises with a lux and color temp meter and print for that specific display setting. And there would be an advance discussion about what kind of lighting and climate control was best for the life of the print. Otherwise, I had brochures made up, intended to be handed out with any sale of my prints by another contracted party, i.e., gallery agent.
But all that was a long time ago.

I was near Bakersfield just a few days ago. Very specific timing. A big storm was finally headed in. I was way back in the wildlife refuge up on a ridge, with the wind howling all night and my truck shaking. That cleared the air out over at least the entire San Joaquin Valley and coastal ranges, plus the Sierra, and I followed the beautiful light and clouds back home, stopping for my hoped-for shots of blossoming almond groves on quieter farm roads headed north. Some of the tiny side roads toward Bakersfield, Coalinga, etc had spectacular early wildflower patterns - rich tapestries of color on various exposed earthtone cliffs and hills - exactly what I was also looking for. But due to the ongoing extreme drought overall, it's unlikely there will be a "superbloom" later in the season in that area.

The amount of officially protected land south and west of the "Armpit of the West" (Bakersfield) has dramatically increased recently by hundreds of thousands of acres, some accessible to the public, some off limits due to endangered condors etc. The Carrizo Plain refuge itself is over forty miles long, and totally uninhabited except for a wildlife officer residence. Wonderful areas in winter and spring, but not under hot or smoggy conditions. East of the "armpit" are the great canyons of the Kaweah and Kern Rivers, Sequoia National Park, and the highest mountains in the contiguous US. But the smog rises so high from the Central Valley below that it's been a serious factor stressing the giant sequoias and other trees, and no doubt contributed to the catastrophic loss of many of them in last autumn's fires.

I got a few nice 4x5 shot ahead of the storm, but once it arrived, had to resort to MF gear due to either the wind or need of an especially long tele. Coldest days of the year so far a couple days ago, ironically just a few days after three days in a row of record Feb heat.

[Drew Wiley]

Anyway, continuing, Michael, now that you made the jest ... Yes, I did in fact calibrate color print settings with long-term performance, especially in commercial settings. It was second nature to me. I did that with architectural color consultation all along. Color schemes would be drawn up with specific matched ratios of fading, so that everything would continue to look relatively good until scheduled cyclic repainting for the whole. It took a very specific understanding of pigments, and I don't know anyone else who did it that manner. That's why most of my jobs came from architects and other clients who were disappointed with previous "color experts". I factored in all kinds of variables they didn't - color temp of lighting per time of day, coordination of color with seasonal variations in surrounding fields if rural, fade rate of each component relative to all the others. Fun and challenging, excellent side pay. But too much driving, even though I was reimbursed for my mileage and time too. Lots of this involved big fancy Victorians and otherwise important historical buildings.

[826257]

[may be of interest... though not a story of my lost aunt's lost cat]
https://ccp.arizona.edu/events/3643-photograph-conservation-trees

[oh gee, seems you missed that. maybe I'll talk about my time at the doorstore]

[Tin Can]

Thank you!


Now we've got all the inkjet myth nonsense and its alleged pigments. Well, every painter with an ounce of training knows that even if these were in fact totally pigment based (which they're not), not all pigments are created equal, no by a long shot. If you want truly permanent colorants, fly to the surface of Mars and collect the ones already UV-proven. Of course, you'll be limited to a rather limited palette of oxides, and probably none of those will fit through tiny inkjet nozzles. Those kind of oxides barely fit through house paint colorant machine nozzles. But if we can't rely on any photographic colorants lasting forever, we can take solace in the fact that at least one thing will remain - the mythology itself, and probably associated deceptive marketing too.

Drew

I have moved my complete personal printing colour and black and white to Pt Pd with gum bichromate tones on top - to full colour gum bichromate over palladium using The Wet Print pigments that are considered quite LF with a Blue Wool Scale of 8. I also do inkjet prints for contemporary art projects.

225057 - this is the brand new Cone Editions LED unit, we retrofitted it above our 33x 44 inch vacuum press. It has brought our exposures on large gums which are shown below from 25 min to 1.2 min.

225058- This is Michelle Huisiman from Vancouver Canada, working in my dim room last month and that is a tri colour gum over Palladium, and as you can see she is getting pretty damm good results


For my personal work I also do tri colours over pd and also a lot of multiple negative tonal shifts over palladium. 225059


We are very interested in any and all research in pigment structure and its Light Fastness, Colour Fidelity, light transmission capabilities ( I have been going down this wormhole for over 10 years and have been lucky enough to meet some very good mentors along the way like Sandy King, Ron Reeder . I can tell you that our working solutions (coating solution) would never make it through any printing heads that I am aware of but I do believe some very interesting methods of spray heads tied into flat bed tables will be incorporated in the coming future, as well a lot of research into various pigments, like earth colours, and even Drew space colours.

We are now looking at UV printers that allow us to print on any surface, I am quite interested in a few of the possibilities .. for example
-copper plates where we can print our images in register and take these plates off the printer and etch them for single and multiple colour
-Currently we use Epson printer to make single separation negatives that we then have to take to a stripping table and join together for multiple colour work. (PIA)
These units can be adapted with registration bars and using their sophisticated xy positioning one can make a set of 4 films already pre punched. ( YA )
- Ink jet prints on any type of material that allow the UV radiation to harden the surface , so that its scratch resistant with protective UV coatings. This will be of interest
to some of my clients that do extremely large prints to avoid glazing and mounting a substrate to diabond for example. In a museum or large gallery presentation this amounts to
over 700 $ per image which when added up in a 30 print showing is quite astounding amount of savings.
These units can be adapted with bright minds over the next few years to be able to do multiple coat , registered coatings for almost any application, and I hope to see the day where I am using
the best ground stone with simple process.

[826257]

[from the obvious AI: not all vegetables are the same]

[ from the dormouse: "I see we have the Mayor here" ]
& yes, I was sitting in the booth opposite. I could hear the entire exchange: august 22, 5:20 - 5:40. St. Regis. Not one word about Colorama, since Mr. *` never worked on them}

[Duolab123]

Now we've got all the inkjet myth nonsense and its alleged pigments. Well, every painter with an ounce of training knows that even if these were in fact totally pigment based (which they're not), not all pigments are created equal, no by a long shot. If you want truly permanent colorants, fly to the surface of Mars and collect the ones already UV-proven. Of course, you'll be limited to a rather limited palette of oxides, and probably none of those will fit through tiny inkjet nozzles. Those kind of oxides barely fit through house paint colorant machine nozzles. But if we can't rely on any photographic colorants lasting forever, we can take solace in the fact that at least one thing will remain - the mythology itself, and probably associated deceptive marketing too.

Drew

I have moved my complete personal printing colour and black and white to Pt Pd with gum bichromate tones on top - to full colour gum bichromate over palladium using The Wet Print pigments that are considered quite LF with a Blue Wool Scale of 8. I also do inkjet prints for contemporary art projects.

225057 - this is the brand new Cone Editions LED unit, we retrofitted it above our 33x 44 inch vacuum press. It has brought our exposures on large gums which are shown below from 25 min to 1.2 min.

225058- This is Michelle Huisiman from Vancouver Canada, working in my dim room last month and that is a tri colour gum over Palladium, and as you can see she is getting pretty damm good results


For my personal work I also do tri colours over pd and also a lot of multiple negative tonal shifts over palladium. 225059


We are very interested in any and all research in pigment structure and its Light Fastness, Colour Fidelity, light transmission capabilities ( I have been going down this wormhole for over 10 years and have been lucky enough to meet some very good mentors along the way like Sandy King, Ron Reeder . I can tell you that our working solutions (coating solution) would never make it through any printing heads that I am aware of but I do believe some very interesting methods of spray heads tied into flat bed tables will be incorporated in the coming future, as well a lot of research into various pigments, like earth colours, and even Drew space colours.

We are now looking at UV printers that allow us to print on any surface, I am quite interested in a few of the possibilities .. for example
-copper plates where we can print our images in register and take these plates off the printer and etch them for single and multiple colour
-Currently we use Epson printer to make single separation negatives that we then have to take to a stripping table and join together for multiple colour work. (PIA)
These units can be adapted with registration bars and using their sophisticated xy positioning one can make a set of 4 films already pre punched. ( YA )
- Ink jet prints on any type of material that allow the UV radiation to harden the surface , so that its scratch resistant with protective UV coatings. This will be of interest
to some of my clients that do extremely large prints to avoid glazing and mounting a substrate to diabond for example. In a museum or large gallery presentation this amounts to
over 700 $ per image which when added up in a 30 print showing is quite astounding amount of savings.
These units can be adapted with bright minds over the next few years to be able to do multiple coat , registered coatings for almost any application, and I hope to see the day where I am using
the best ground stone with simple process.

Wow, amazing work

[Certain Exposures]

I haven't abandoned this thread. I'm just reading it slowly. Here's a video I found that's somewhat related to the subject. This photographer talks about his experience with Kodachrome and shows scans of old slides. It is interesting to see how well the colors held up. I wish he showed some on a light table:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scPuVo60T4

[BrianShaw]

Based on the Ektachrome slides I inherited, Kodak made a marked improvement in color stability between 1961 and mid-1962. These images were taken with the same camera and stored under the same conditions.

225033 225034

Is that Mentryville/Pico Canyon? I was there about 10 years ago and only the frame is still existing. Nice family photo!

[EarlJam]

Is that Mentryville/Pico Canyon? I was there about 10 years ago and only the frame is still existing. Nice family photo!

Farther north. It's a tailing wheel near Jackson, off Hwy 49. We were on a tour of the Gold Rush country. I don't remember where the faded image was taken and my dad was not one to write notes on the slide frames.

[Drew Wiley]

I lived at the southern end of the gold belt. Lots of old mines and equipment around, plus a working mine down the road. The man who mined it lived in a tiny wooden shack with big holes in the walls, rats in there, sleeping on a decomposing mattress with a single old blanket. He worked his mine just enough to pay property taxes and keep himself drunken the rest of the time; then when he died, his alienated son discovered he had just inherited over 20,000 acres. I've been over Hwy 49 countless times, but preferred to branch off it onto quieter side roads. It amazes me how people zoom past all of that on the way to Yosemite, yet don't even see what to me is the real scenery, especially in Spring. Sadly, quite a few of the towns have become suburbanized.

Shot em all in that region - Kodachrome early on, plus pre-E6 Agfachrome slides, then, in sheet film, all the way from Ekta 64 into all the Fujichromes, then finally back to Ekta when E100G started being made on superior polyester base. Cibachrome went extinct, and I switched to color neg film instead, which dramatically improved in the interim.