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M Brian Mills
13-Mar-2006, 12:48
I am using the Epson 4990 that I have had for about 9 months. It has been working great until recently.
When I scan, the preview color and density is many times different from what is imported into Photoshop.

I am using Epson's scanning software (which I have used all along). I calibrate my monitor every couple weeks using Gretag MacBeth Eye-One. I am on version CS2 of PhotoShop.

I've not made any changes in software, hardware, etc. for about 3 months. My color settings in PhotoShop remain the same.

Ideas as to what the problem is?

Preview:
http://www.brianmills.us/images/temp/color_issues_01.jpg

Result:
http://www.brianmills.us/images/temp/color_issues_02.jpg

Kirk Gittings
13-Mar-2006, 14:13
I would do a global reset of the default settings first and then reinstall the sofware from the Eposn site next if that doesn't work.

M Brian Mills
13-Mar-2006, 14:20
This remains after resetting all color settings in PhotoShop and after uninstalling and reinstalling Epson's software.

Also...with further testing I found that the scans come out as in the preview if I scan at 1200 DPI and below, but if I am at 2400 or higher (which is where I often scan) that is when the color shift occurs.

So, if I run Epson Scan (alone, not within PhotoShop), do a preview, marquee the part of the image that I want, and scan it with the DPI set to 1200, the saved image comes out just as in the preview. If I don't exit Epson Scan or make any change beyond altering the DPI to 2400, the saved image comes out with completely different color from the other one.

This happens if I scan the 1200 DPI image first or second or if I scan the 2400 image first or second.

Strange?

Kirk Gittings
13-Mar-2006, 15:28
Man you got me! I have no idea.

Kirk Gittings
13-Mar-2006, 15:35
This is a real longshot....but sometimes this solves some problems with odd things. Machine on, unplug the lid wait twenty seconds, then unplug the USB cord and wait twenty seconds then unplug the power cord. Plug everything back in and then restart the machine.

Kirk Gittings
13-Mar-2006, 15:36
Also are you deleting your preferences folder when you reinstal your software. If not the reinstal is not truely starting from scratch.

Struan Gray
13-Mar-2006, 15:39
I have only used older Epson scanners, but they had a DPI setting where they switched from using one array of the CCD to two. That is, for each colour channel the CCD consists of two strips of cells staggered with respect to each other. Scanning at low resolutions only used one strip, scanning at higher resolutions used both.

I suspect one of your CCD strips - or its amplifier - is dead for one colour. 1200 DPI switches to use one strip and you are getting junk data in one colour channel.

If you look at the individual colour channels at 1:1 do you see a checkerboard pattern or stripes one pixel wide? You may not - it depends on the interpolation routines in the scanner driver - but if you do it's a pretty good sign that your problem is indeed a single strip of a single colour going wonky.

M Brian Mills
13-Mar-2006, 15:51
Yes, I make sure to go in and delete anything remaining in the folders when I remove software.

Also, Straun, I did check it at 1:1 each channel at a time and there is nothing that I can see as a pattern. No patterns or stripes at 1:1 or even if I zoom in (I tried checking them at 100%, 400%, and 1600% magnification).

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

tim atherton
13-Mar-2006, 16:03
brian,

note that if you are on windows the preferences file may well not be with the program files, but somewhere like C/Documents and Settings and then under one of the User folders somewhere

M Brian Mills
13-Mar-2006, 17:42
Tim, I went through my documents and settings as well. I think I have a freak thing.

I did remembered, duh, that I installed a new Epson R1800 prior to noting this happening. But I would think that by uninstalling the scanner and reinstalling it that anything bad done by the printer should have been over-written.

Kirk Gittings
13-Mar-2006, 17:57
Here was the exact wording from Epson on a problem that I had. It may have some relevence.

1. Shut down your computer completely. Disconnect the USB cord from your
computer.
2. Remove the transparency option cable from the back of the scanner, then
unplug the scanner from power.
3. Reconnect the option cable back into the scanner and then connect the
scanner back into the electrical power.
4. Connect the USB cable back to your computer and turn your computer on.
5. Try to scan, and all should be well.

M Brian Mills
13-Mar-2006, 18:50
I hate to keep shooting down people's suggestions, but as I try them, nothing fixes it. I tried Kirk's sequence of events to no avail.

I've submitted it to Epson...let's hope their support people know a thing or two about scanners....one never knows the expertise of the support person who will attempt to help you.

Marko
13-Mar-2006, 18:58
Brian,

Here's another guess, since I don't use that scanner: it looks like a case of double profiling, so to speak. I had very similar thing happen to me a while back, while I was running Photoshop under Windows.

Since you are calibrating using EyeOne, make sure you're not also running Adobe Gamma (look in the startup folder). If it does run, for whatever reason, you are effectivelly double-profiling anything you do in Photoshop and therefore getting false colors.

Hope this helps.

M Brian Mills
13-Mar-2006, 19:51
Marko,

Thanks, I did have Adobe Gamma running so I removed it from startup. I also checked for any other process that appeared to be tied to display and either disabled or removed them. I then rebooted.

I tried scanning again and I got the same darn result.

It appears to be primarily a difference in they way the printer is scanning the color on different DPIs and that the rest of the image is as it should be. I suppose I could just change the color after I open it in PhotoShop, but what a pain! I just wish it were working as it used to.
Arg!

Marko
13-Mar-2006, 20:09
I suppose I could just change the color after I open it in PhotoShop, but what a pain! I just wish it were working as it used to. Arg!

You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get your job done. Especially not in Photoshop. I know this won't help, but this is one of the reasons why I prefer Macs.

One more thing - after you remove Adobe Gamma from your startup folder and reboot, you need to recallibrate from scratch. This will - I take it back, this should refresh both your LUT and Photoshop preferences.

Regards,

Brian Ellis
13-Mar-2006, 20:41
Why don't you download the trial version of Vuescan, see if it does the same thing? That might assist in diagnosing the problem, especially if you don't have the problem with Vuescan. If Vuescan does the same thing then if it were me I'd bite the bullet and call Epson tech support. That can be agonizing but they've been helpful to me a couple times with oddball problems and yours certainly qualifies as that.

Patrik Roseen
16-Mar-2006, 05:54
Another longshot - From what you say the problem seems to be related to the scanning and not Photoshop. The difference depending on resolution could indicate that you might have a lack of memory when processing the produced file at scanning and hence some information might be lost. The effect of memory problems could be different for different types of file types, like TIFF or JPEG etc. Sometimes the image gets cropped - possibly color information could change as well? You could try to scan a smaller part of the image at higher resolution to see what happens - If the problem is still there it is related to the scanning ... if not it could be the memory. Good luck

M Brian Mills
17-Apr-2006, 13:45
FYI...

After about a month of testing, and many emails back and forth with Epson's technical support, they agreed that there is a bug in their scanning software.

This is when scanning larger (4x5) negatives (reversing color) at higher DPIs 2400+. Nothing negative happens when I scan chromes.

All works fine with SilverFast and VueScan, but EpsonScan cannot make the correct reversal.

Epson said that there is no update set for release and told me that any issue I have at this point would have to be taken up with Customer Care.

Ted Harris
17-Apr-2006, 15:08
Brian, if you have the full version of Silverfast why not run with that and stop fooling with the Epson software which is ok at best. Something else to consider, you really aren't gaining a thing by scanning at any resolution higher than 2400 spi as that is ~ the real optical esolution of the scanner. If you keep it at 2400 do you still have the problem?

M Brian Mills
17-Apr-2006, 15:15
Ted,

I don't have Silverfast AI because I bought the Photo version of the scanner and not the Pro version.

According to what I have read, the real optical resolution of the scanner is 4800...if you believe this to be untrue, please let me know your source.

The Epson software (be it "ok at best") should allow me to do everything as advertised, but it does not and the issue was accepted by Epson as a true bug in their software which means that they acknowledge that there is something wrong with it.

The problem exists at 2400 DPI.

Patrik Roseen
19-Apr-2006, 16:32
Just out of curiousity - are you saying that this is related to the actual size of the negative being scanned...just coming back to my previous proposal in this thread. If you scan only a smaller part of the 4x5 negative with higher resolution 2400+...is the bug still there?

M Brian Mills
24-Apr-2006, 10:31
If I scan a smaller portion of the negative, or if I change the DPI to something smaller than 2400 DPI then there is no issue. Or, as you asked, if I scan a smaller part of the negative at 2400 DPI then the issue goes away.

Your other post was leaning toward memory so I did do a bit of testing in that realm as well. I attached the scanner to a different PC that has a different processor (slower) and different memory (less) and saw the same issue.

So, I upped the RAM on my machine from 2 gig of DDR SDRAM to 3 gig. I also moved large files to a firewire drive (so paging file and such should be OK). Same problem.

M Brian Mills
27-Apr-2006, 15:15
Here's the update...
I first emailed technical support (from Epson's website) on March 13th. On April 9th (after 8 emails back and forth) someone replied that it appeared to be an EpsonScan software issue and that they could not help me further and that I would have to work with Customer Relations.

I called Customer Relations several times and received return calls from them. They have no solution as they are only the group who is supposed to work to make the customer happy (I'm happy, but not with the service I received from them) and they had no solution for the problem (they do not have SilverFast AI to send out or anything) so they escalated it to Technical Support (supposedly a group that is more knowledgable than the people who work the email tech. support). I had to schedule a return call from them so I could be near my scanner when they called.

I took a the day off work yesterday in order to work with their Tech. Support person. He called and for 20 minutes he had me try different things then he said that he had nothing more for me and that he would have to escalate the issue to the engineering department and that they would get back with me.

Well, I got a call from Epson's corporate in Long Beach and the woman apologized for all of the trouble that I had to go through and said that she had checked their internal, upcoming fixes. She said that there is a note that the next firmware version (due out in approximately two weeks) will have a fix for the issue. She said that it specifically mentions scans with a purplish hue (though I had not mentioned which way the colors were shifting) which seems to address the issue of the images as enclosed at the top of this thread.