Nobody's using the Intrepid 5x7 camera...Is it that bad?

[Certain Exposures]

Why aren't there more videos or articles by people using the Intrepid 5x7 camera?

There's only one YouTube video that I can find about the camera. In the video, CatLabs shared their complaints. They'd only used the camera for a few days and didn't share any sample images. The comments section was not kind.

I understand that 5x7 is not a popular format, but several large websites promoted its announcement in 2020. People interested in 5x7 know it exists.

Are any of you using this camera? Can you share your experiences with it and your work? I'm interested in 5x7.

The Intrepid is impossible to ignore considering the combination of price, weight, and features of most 5x7 camera bodies.

[nitroplait]

Difficult to imagine that you can't interpolate the many Intrepid 4x5 Mk.4 or 8X10 mk.2 reviews onto the 5x7 model - as far as I can see Intrepid employs the same design on all current models.
The only 5x7 model specific nuisances I heard mentioned in the CatLabs video was the length the bellows can extend and the non-standard lens board.

[Oslolens]

The lens board is 108mm square flat ABS. Perhaps good for off lens centering mounted wide angle lens?

Length of bellows is max 380mm, which make anything longer than 300mm unusable, or 360mm for landscape only. Not my biggest concern.

He also mentioned a tightening screw on bottom that may come loose.

But the main thing in my opinion is lack of bail arm, hard to do several identical exposures or guarantee sharp focus when the back is too easy to move while putting the film holder in.

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[paulbarden]

I bought the 5x7 Intrepid in June 2021. I saw the CatLabs review and found my own experience with the camera to be quite different from theirs. (in fact, I think the CatLabs review is far more harsh than the camera deserves.)

Yes, you may need to take extra care inserting and removing film holders, but the stability of the rear standard is quite satisfactory. You'd have to be a real oaf in removing/inserting the the film holders to push the rear standard out of position. I think the CatLabs demonstration of this is grossly exaggerated.
Bellows extension is quite sufficient. I use my 5x7 for close-up still life type work and found it perfectly capable of close focus.
I don't miss the bail arm back. The spring clips are firm without being overly stiff to use.

I 3-D print my own lens boards as needed, so the odd size isn't an obstacle. I did buy one of Intrepid's own boards and its made of nice material and has an attractive finish. Its far better than the lens boards they were printing 3 years ago.

My only complaint about the camera pertains to the base board/tripod mount design: long tripod mounting screws WILL conflict with the focus mechanism and you won't be able to rack out the focus. Intrepid is aware of this issue and they state this in the product description, I believe. (We discussed it in private emails) The remedy is to either get a shorter tripod screw to mount it, or add some washers between the base of the camera and the tripod. I found it simpler to use my smaller Manfrotto tripod (normally for the Hasselblad and TLRs) which has a short mounting screw. As the camera is very light, its not a problem using it on this lighter tripod.

I would not hesitate to recommend the Intrepid 5x7 camera. I'm enjoying using it and find it entirely satisfactory in functionality, design/build quality, and ease of use. If you don't have $2K to spend, this is a perfectly good option.

You can see a few photos I have made with the Intrepid 5x7 here (https://flickr.com/search/?user_id=97352228%40N00&sort=date-taken-desc&text=intrepid%205x7&view_all=1). (Not all of these are made with the Intrepid, but Flickr tagged all of them as relevant, so read the descriptions to see which ones are made with the 5x7 Intrepid)

[nitroplait]

As much as I appreciate reseller honesty, the criticism expressed in the CatLabs review puzzles me - they could say the same things in a more constructive manner.
That the random YouTube'er can't differentiate between deal-breaker and minor nuisance with a workaround is more understandable.
Luckily there are plenty of Intrepid 4x5 and 8x10 walkthroughs online where, if tripod mount or instability was a major issue, we would probably have heard about it to no end.

It certainly appear to be an amazing value, even if you have to adapt to a few idiosyncrasies - and realistically which camera doesn't have room for improvement regardless of price?

[Peter De Smidt]

That's great work, Paul!

[nitroplait]

That's great work, Paul!
Oh, so you can see photographs at the end of the link? I just get a Flickr error:
Oh noes! We couldn't process your search.
Please change it up a bit and try again.

[Peter De Smidt]

Oh, so you can see photographs at the end of the link?

Yes.

[jon.oman]

Oh, so you can see photographs at the end of the link?


I see them as well.

[Alan9940]

I've never owned the 4x5 or 5x7 Intrepid, but I do have the 8x10 Mk1 (from the Kickstarter campaign) and the 8x10 Mk2. IMO, the Mk2 version is a significant step up from the first version, though I never had any real complaints with the Mk1. On both cameras, I did make a few minor modifications that I think are an improvement; for example, I painted the entire wood area of the lens mount with black india ink to minimize any chance of stray light. My only issue with the 8x10 Mk2 was that the clips at the end of the "springs" (on the back) were too short. When I inserted/removed my dry plate holder, they would slip of the ground glass frame. Not a big deal...I just popped 'em back on, but it was a nuisance. A brief communique with Intrepid and they sent me some replacements "springs" with longer clips (they were aware of this issue already.)

My only general comment regarding the Intrepid cameras is that the beginner LF photographer may not get the best out of it. For example, they are lightweight which lends itself to using lighter weight tripods which is a potential issue in windy conditions. Experienced LF photographers are aware of this and know how to mitigate the issue, if possible. I don't know about the other Intrepid cameras, but both my 8x10's require careful setup to ensure correct standard positioning and the everything is securely locked down. None of these things are difficult to overcome, one just needs to be, perhaps, a slightly more careful worker with these cameras.

[nitroplait]

Yes.


I see them as well.

Thanks. Turns out you have to be logged in for the search link to work.

I agree - beautiful work, @paulbarden.

[Certain Exposures]

I bought the 5x7 Intrepid in June 2021. I saw the CatLabs review and found my own experience with the camera to be quite different from theirs. (in fact, I think the CatLabs review is far more harsh than the camera deserves.)

Yes, you may need to take extra care inserting and removing film holders, but the stability of the rear standard is quite satisfactory. You'd have to be a real oaf in removing/inserting the the film holders to push the rear standard out of position. I think the CatLabs demonstration of this is grossly exaggerated.
Bellows extension is quite sufficient. I use my 5x7 for close-up still life type work and found it perfectly capable of close focus.
I don't miss the bail arm back. The spring clips are firm without being overly stiff to use.

I 3-D print my own lens boards as needed, so the odd size isn't an obstacle. I did buy one of Intrepid's own boards and its made of nice material and has an attractive finish. Its far better than the lens boards they were printing 3 years ago.

My only complaint about the camera pertains to the base board/tripod mount design: long tripod mounting screws WILL conflict with the focus mechanism and you won't be able to rack out the focus. Intrepid is aware of this issue and they state this in the product description, I believe. (We discussed it in private emails) The remedy is to either get a shorter tripod screw to mount it, or add some washers between the base of the camera and the tripod. I found it simpler to use my smaller Manfrotto tripod (normally for the Hasselblad and TLRs) which has a short mounting screw. As the camera is very light, its not a problem using it on this lighter tripod.

I would not hesitate to recommend the Intrepid 5x7 camera. I'm enjoying using it and find it entirely satisfactory in functionality, design/build quality, and ease of use. If you don't have $2K to spend, this is a perfectly good option.

You can see a few photos I have made with the Intrepid 5x7 here (https://flickr.com/search/?user_id=97352228%40N00&sort=date-taken-desc&text=intrepid%205x7&view_all=1). (Not all of these are made with the Intrepid, but Flickr tagged all of them as relevant, so read the descriptions to see which ones are made with the 5x7 Intrepid)


Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your work, Paul. I like "The Last One." I have a couple of questions for you.

1. Do you find it challenging to get edge-to-edge sharpness throughout an entire photograph because of the Intrepid's design? Or do you experience issues with focusing in general because of the camera? For example, in "Drowning, not waving" there are still apples out of focus at F11. I assume that this was intentional, so how much harder would your job have been if you had aimed to make everything sharp?

2. Did you purchase Intrepid's fresnel or do you find the ground glass sufficiently bright?

3. Do you use Intrepid's 4x5 reducing back on the camera? What's that experience been like for you?

[paulbarden]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your work, Paul. I like "The Last One."

Thank you very much. And you're welcome.


I have a couple of questions for you.
1. Do you find it challenging to get edge-to-edge sharpness throughout an entire photograph because of the Intrepid's design? Or do you experience issues with focusing in general because of the camera? For example, in "Drowning, not waving" there are still apples out of focus at F11. I assume that this was intentional, so how much harder would your job have been if you had aimed to make everything sharp?

Its not difficult to get "edge to edge" focus with that camera, no. If I had wanted to apply movements and a smaller aperture, I could easily have achieved sharp focus on all of the elements in that photo, but that was not my goal. Remember, this is an f5.6 lens used, and as such, its only stopped down 2 stops when used at f11, which is barely stopping down at all. It would have been very easy to bring all of the elements into focus, and the camera's features would have helped make it a simple job.


2. Did you purchase Intrepid's fresnel or do you find the ground glass sufficiently bright?

I did not buy the fresnel lens, and I find the ground glass perfectly adequate as-is. I have no intention of adding a fresnel to the camera. Your experience is going to depend on how bright your lenses are: if you are working with a lens that has a maximum aperture of f7.7 for example, you might find the ground glass image dark enough to be difficult to work with. In that case, you might want to add the fresnel.


3. Do you use Intrepid's 4x5 reducing back on the camera? What's that experience been like for you?

I don't have the 4x5 reducing back, no. I already own an Intrepid 4x5 (I won it in a photo competition in 2018) and so if I want to do 4x5, I use that camera. But I see no reason to think the reducing back wouldn't be a good solution if you want one camera that can do both formats.

[Certain Exposures]

Thanks, Paul!

[Bernice Loui]

Better question, why is 5x7 or 13x18cm no where near as popular as 8x10 or 4x5, given all the sheet film trade offs involved 5x7 being the near ideal trade-off sheet film format?


2x3/6x9 or 5x7/13x18cm film size centric,
Bernice

[bob carnie]

We just used an Intrepid 8 x 10 camera for a ongoing project and I really liked the camera. not as sturdy as a Toyo but for my simple needs it is a perfect camera.

[paulbarden]

Thanks. Turns out you have to be logged in for the search link to work.

I agree - beautiful work, @paulbarden.

Thank you very much!

[paulbarden]

Better question, why is 5x7 or 13x18cm no where near as popular as 8x10 or 4x5, given all the sheet film trade offs involved 5x7 being the near ideal trade-off sheet film format?

2x3/6x9 or 5x7/13x18cm film size centric,
Bernice

I'm mystified by this as well, since 5x7 is so much more pleasing an aspect ratio - at least to me. Its like 35mm or 6x9, but much much larger.

[Joseph Kashi]

Better question, why is 5x7 or 13x18cm no where near as popular as 8x10 or 4x5, given all the sheet film trade offs involved 5x7 being the near ideal trade-off sheet film format?


2x3/6x9 or 5x7/13x18cm film size centric,
Bernice


+1

[Ari]

Its like 35mm or 6x9, but much much larger.

That's why I dislike the format. I don't like shooting squares any more, I prefer slightly rectangular formats now, 6x7, 8x10, etc.
IMO, 5x7 isn't a good format for portrait work, which is what I mostly do, but I can see why landscape shooters enjoy the format.
I can't speak for anyone else, but that's why I never stuck with 5x7 when I had it many years ago.

[pjd]

Having read through this thread it seems there's not much against this camera, particularly given the price.

It is trickier to find a 5x7 enlarger (actually it's hard / expensive to get an enlarger bigger than medium format where I live), I wonder if Intrepid plan to make a 5x7 enlarging attachment.

[Greg]

When I was considering a 5x7, I had considered an Intrepid, but in the end found an older and very used 5x7 Linhof Technika for about the same price. I went with the used Technika and never regretted it, for it was so much more a precise instrument to use. It was a very used but not abused camera... everything worked just fine on it. Eventually sold it to acquire a whole plate camera... just preferred the size of the contact prints from the whole plate format over the 5x7 format.

[Alan9940]

It is trickier to find a 5x7 enlarger (actually it's hard / expensive to get an enlarger bigger than medium format where I live), I wonder if Intrepid plan to make a 5x7 enlarging attachment.

Contact prints are a beautiful thing!

[nitroplait]

Contact prints are a beautiful thing!

Agree. And 5x7 just works so much better than 4x5 IMO.

[pjd]

Contact prints are a beautiful thing!

I agree, I like contact printing with smaller negatives. Still wish I could get a 5x7 enlarger here though.

[Willie]

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/5x7.html

Might be worth reading Tuan's article on this site.

[jmpetzval]

I’m sorry to comment on this original topic, but maybe I can help with a few things. I use ULF cameras, but I can’t always carry these big machines anymore, so I needed a small and very light 4x5 camera. I watched a lot but I didn't really like it. I’ve built and repaired a lot of LF and ULF cameras in my life, so I ordered an Intrepid 4x5 Mk4, wondering if it wouldn’t be good, and then rebuilding it. It was better than I thought. But 3D printed parts are useless, as is the very bad solution of the whole back. The quality of the installation work is low and the surface treatment and aesthetics are poor. I did these. On the other hand, the camera is really very light and the Linhof lens board is also a good idea. Ever since I rebuilt it a bit, I’m happy. All Intrepid machines are similar, but I know there are other issues with the 5x7 and 8x10 cameras. But a lot of things can be solved with a few tools. It's a very light camera and it's important to me.

Some pictures...


224192 224193

224194 224195

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[nitroplait]

....
It was better than I thought. But 3D printed parts are useless, as is the very bad solution of the whole back.
....
.
Very interesting. I am fascinated by people who adapt cameras to their own use case.
The back appear to be where you did the most non-cosmetic work.
I am not knowledgeable enough to understand the implications of you back modification from the photos. Would you mind explaining what you did and why you consider the original back design bad?

[jmpetzval]

Thank you very much. Of course, it describes what I did. I'm sorry my English isn't quite good.

First, I disassembled all the screw connections and did it again. Very poor quality assembly work was done, unscrewed bolts, curved bolts, etc. I then painted the inside and part of the first standard lens borad with matte black paint to avoid reflections (acrylic paint is appropriate). I then painted the plywood parts (front and back stadard) with light mahogany wood paint (alcoholic stain).
Then I replaced all the 3D printed buttons - knobs: I made the same buttons- knobs out of aluminum composite with a CNC milling machine. PLA (?) was not mechanically strong, stable.

224208

And now the back cover: I think the back of these cameras is the worst, the original frame of the background is made in 3D printing. Very bad idea. It’s exactly the part that has a high mechanical load, especially if we use a roll film holder that goes under the packgroun. By no means suitable. And the original spring is made of some laminated plastic with 3D printed inserts. Not strong enough. One-sided spring, the result is very poor use of back cover. Even in a small format like 4x5. And so it is with the 5x7 camera. That's not a good idea. The background frame falls off easily, and if not, the compressive force is not enough either.
That's why I bought the back of an old Cambo 4x5 camera, refurbished it, made a new background, chromed the rusty old steel springs and you can see the result.

224209 224210 224211

With a few days of work, it will be a completely different camera than the original. It is also aesthetically much more pleasant, but much more comfortable to use.

I trust you are happy with the answer. Sorry for the bad English in Eastern Europe :)

.

[nitroplait]

Thank you very much. Of course, it describes what I did.
....

.
Thank you so much!

[pjd]

I emailed Intrepid asking if they will make a 5x7 enlarging attachment back, they replied quickly saying they plan to offer an 8x10 enlarging attachment with a 5x7 negative carrier. I'm now curious about how well their 4x5 enlarging attachment works.

[Alan9940]

I emailed Intrepid asking if they will make a 5x7 enlarging attachment back, they replied quickly saying they plan to offer an 8x10 enlarging attachment with a 5x7 negative carrier. I'm now curious about how well their 4x5 enlarging attachment works.

A search on YouTube should reveal several videos covering Intrepid's 4x5 enlarging setup.

[Bernice Loui]

Difficulty with using any view camera as an enlarger is alignment. Once this is properly done, there will not be a lot of incentive to move the view camera out of being an enlarger due to the effort to set this up. Compounding this difficulty is the reality of altering enlarger head (view camera in this case) to base board distance to alter magnification ratio which is done plenty lots, then focusing the projected image. In the case of the Intrepid camera with the focusing control at the back of the camera under the GG, focusing the projected image is going to be no fun at all.

Hard learned wisdom being, get a proper high quality enlarger, make absolute sure it is in proper operating condition, set it up GOOD once and consider this as a stable tool to make prints. Print making should be about print making, not tinkering or struggling with an un-cooperative or difficult to deal with enlarging set up which will make the print making process more difficult and demanding than it should be.

There was a time when piles of Foto labs were closing down at an extremely rapid pace. Countless Durst, DeVere and similar best quality enlargers were shoved in to the dumpster fast as they could be hauled away as no one was interested in giving them a home. Today, there are far fewer of these enlargers available. They do appear once in a while. Best to wait until a proper enlarger appears with the plans for proper ownership and supporting dark room space. This LF darkroom stuff is not a small demand on resources and commitment, best know what you're getting into before taking these steps.


Bernice




A search on YouTube should reveal several videos covering Intrepid's 4x5 enlarging setup.

[Joseph Kashi]

Having read through this thread it seems there's not much against this camera, particularly given the price.

It is trickier to find a 5x7 enlarger (actually it's hard / expensive to get an enlarger bigger than medium format where I live), I wonder if Intrepid plan to make a 5x7 enlarging attachment.


Sorry to utter heresy, but why not just wet-scan the 5x7 negatives with an Epson V850 and then digitally print them? Saves a lot of spotting as well. I have a working 5x7 cold light head enlarger but find scanning my 5x7 negatives to work very well.

[pjd]

Sorry to utter heresy, but why not just wet-scan the 5x7 negatives with an Epson V850 and then digitally print them? Saves a lot of spotting as well. I have a working 5x7 cold light head enlarger but find scanning my 5x7 negatives to work very well.

I just don't get excited about scanning, but like darkroom printing when I get time.

About enlarging attachments, I'll have a look on Youtube, thanks for the suggestion Alan. The quality of the light output is what interests me most. I have made a cheap LED head, but it's not great. Powered by the PSU from a discarded desktop computer, running through an electronic timer - but the light output is a bit less than ideal (cheap LED strips). I've looked at a few of the fancier projects on here, the electronics side looks simple enough but Arduino stuff puts me off (programming is something I'm happy to leave in my distant past) so buying a product off the shelf would be good.

[Oslolens]

Lo and behold! A lightly used 5x7" Intrepid came my way.
I can confirm this is not a finished camera, and tweaking, cutting and painting is necessary, paint both front standard inside and outside, the back also need some antri-reflection work.

When comparing side by side with my 5x7" fitted 4 3/4"x 6 1/2" metal Toyo-View which I am considering replacing it for, I discovered the front standard do not go all the way to the bottom, so some work is anticipated there also.

This is addition to the back not entering without removing wood/ cutting the back standard hole straight.

A tripod can not be fitted as focus threads is to close (bottom is too thin), a 15cm Arca rail is ordered, I do expect to grind two fixings bolt of their length.

Yesterday I filed edges of three lens boards as they had an angle which kept them entering after painting. The 108mm lens boards are a nuisances as they are not more compatible with Linhof Technica than what I got today.

If I bought it new, I would definitely send it back, but at ca half price I hope to reduce the total weight of my backpack and still love the format.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220220/6ef0ff47be45aceef2701f55a706a901.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220220/a0b86d31f43c94e010baa8fed5b57151.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220220/970c17edd587ba1bf9c4bc56e0e851d1.jpg

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[Certain Exposures]

Lo and behold! A lightly used 5x7" Intrepid came my way.
I can confirm this is not a finished camera...

If I bought it new, I would definitely send it back, but at ca half price I hope to reduce the total weight of my backpack and still love the format.

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

How do you feel about it now that you've had a few months to play with it?

[paulbarden]

How do you feel about it now that you've had a few months to play with it?

I know you're not asking me, but I have had my 5x7 Intrepid for over two years now, and I use it frequently and its been pretty much flawless, and a joy to work with.

[Certain Exposures]

I know you're not asking me, but I have had my 5x7 Intrepid for over two years now, and I use it frequently and its been pretty much flawless, and a joy to work with.

Thanks again, Paul. It's nice that you're still enjoying it.

What 5x7 film holders are you using?

[paulbarden]

Thanks again, Paul. It's nice that you're still enjoying it.

What 5x7 film holders are you using?

Whatever I could find on fleabay that was priced reasonably and wasn't obviously junk. IE: an assortment of brands, all good, user condition.

[Tin Can]

I use my several 5X7 boxes

My second ever LF was 5X7 with Wista

A very good heavy camera, all metal

After Property Tax summer I want a new 5x7 Intrepid

'If Man is Still Alive' 2525

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMY-GZYAyIU

[Oslolens]

How do you feel about it now that you've had a few months to play with it?Still modify to be done. I bought some frames with glass and aim to make new ground glass.
As I have another 5x7", fixing the darkroom floor and sink has higher priority.

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[Axelwik]

I recently bought a new Intrepid 5x7. Pretty good camera for the money, and lightweight!