Butane for developer preservation

[Ulophot]

I have seen this posted various times and happened on someone else's unused Ronsonol lighter fluid in the house today. Is this the same stuff, or am I looking for a gas? I haven't a clue.

Thanks.

[pendennis]

I believe butane is a gas at standard atmosphere. Butane lighters store it under pressure. Ronsonol lighter fluid (yellow can) is naptha.

[Jim Noel]

Butane is definitely a gas. Lighter fluid is not.

[LabRat]

A free source of inert gas is your breath... Take a drinking straw and blow a big exhale into the airspace of your developer storage bottle... The CO2 displaces oxygen, and my stock solutions are good for months...

Steve K

[Eric Woodbury]

breath still has much oxygen. We are not efficient about the conversion because CO2 is poisonous to humans. CO2 is acidifiying, but not much. Ask the coral.

[Mark Sampson]

If I was going to spray a gas into a developer bottle to drive the oxygen out, it wouldn't be flammable. Save the butane for fancy cigarette lighters.
In recent times, I've used two methods to deal with developer oxidization; 1) one-shot mixes from a concentrate (Pyrocat in glycol) and previously, XTOL stored in 500ml brown glass bottles.

[Ulophot]

A free source of inert gas is your breath... Take a drinking straw and blow a big exhale into the airspace of your developer storage bottle... The CO2 displaces oxygen, and my stock solutions are good for months...

Steve K

This has been my method for decades, best if I can hold me breath a long time, as the percentage of CO2 increases. Decades ago, there was nitrogen in a can (still available for wine drinkers), but that's not in my budget, either for wine or my print bath, so I was just wondering about something better, since my darkroom time is a bit more spread out now.

(I do decant into smaller bottles as volume goes down as well. I can buy a gallon of my print developer with free shipping for the cost of 2 quarts [plus shipping]. It goes into top-full quart containers.)

[Bob Salomon]

Or glass marbles to raise the chemistry level.

[Neal Chaves]

Wasn't that dust-off spray Omit once claimed to prevent oxidation of chemicals. Now I remember, that stuff was Freon. Probably long removed from the market. Maybe the new AC gas they sell in Walmart would work.

[xkaes]

Instead of explosive gases, leave the BLOW-UPS to optical magnifications under the enlarger.

For glass bottles -- which can't be compressed like plastic bottles can -- marbles are great. You can get large bags at the 99 cent store. If the tops to your bottles are too small, the local hobby/floral/home decor store will have smaller marbles for floral display purposes -- at higher prices.

I avoid all this hassle by mixing only what I need at the time -- it's always fresh.

[Peter De Smidt]

I've used Dust-off or similar for years. In my experience, it works well.

[Ulophot]

Thanks to all.

[Drew Wiley]

A new vaping kind of addiction, Peter?

[DougD]

You could probably use mineral oil as a float, but it would invite problems.

I like the idea of using marbles to fill up the void space. Very clean.

[Gary Beasley]

If you wanted to put up the money for a tank and regulator you could use nitrogen or argon from a welding supplier. A tank of nitrogen is pretty cheap to get refilled.

[Ulophot]

Oh, my goodness. Thanks for the suggestions and guidance. I'm not in any position to add a welder's tank of nitrogen to my cozy space. I remember with a smile the expression of my wife's grandmother, that "this apartment is so small you have to go out into the hall to change your clothes." I'll stick with lung-power and perhaps think about glass beads at some point.

[xkaes]

Since we're into explosives, let's not leave acetylene out of the possibilities. Just a tiny bit of that would increase the size of your apartment tremendously!

[Duolab123]

Sparge the developer with Helium to displace any dissolved gases then leave He in the head space. :rolleyes:

[Bob Salomon]

Sparge the developer with Helium to displace any dissolved gases then leave He in the head space. :rolleyes:

Nonsense! Just buy some glass marbles.

[Peter De Smidt]

Using marbles is messy.

[Tin Can]

+1 !

[domaz]

Using marbles is messy.

Well better than using flammable gasses in your house or messing with a Nitrogen tank. A wine saver might be the simplest option really- probably "good enough".

[Ulophot]

Since we're into explosives, let's not leave acetylene out of the possibilities. Just a tiny bit of that would increase the size of your apartment tremendously!

Touché!

[Drew Wiley]

What if you lost your marbles? I think that's a given, due to how certain non-inert gases have been brought up. One spark, and there go not only all your marbles, but their former "container" too.

[Jim C.]

...Decades ago, there was nitrogen in a can (still available for wine drinkers), but that's not in my budget, either for wine or my print bath, so I was just wondering about something better, since my darkroom time is a bit more spread out now. ...

Don't know how safe it is for wine but works fine for chems and varnishes it's a little spendy and the can doesn't last very long -
http://www.bloxygen.com/

There are also other blanketing gasses in a can that are not nitrogen, I don't know how compatible they would be for photo chems, I use it for
urethane rubbers and resins - https://polytek.com/products/polypurge-dry-aerosol-gas

[Ulophot]

What if you lost your marbles? I think that's a given, due to how certain non-inert gases have been brought up. One spark, and there go not only all your marbles, but their former "container" too.

Indeed.

[Ulophot]

On my budget, holding my breath wins, hands-down. As for the $12 for Bloxygen, as I usually remark only regarding items or services costing above $1,000, "That's a good bottle of wine!"

[Michael R]

On my budget, holding my breath wins, hands-down. As for the $12 for Bloxygen, as I usually remark only regarding items or services costing above $1,000, "That's a good bottle of wine!"

I suggest not bothering with any of this, including using your breath, which will do virtually nothing. Use some smaller bottles, or simply use a developer with better keeping properties.

[Conrad . Marvin]

I bought a box of 500 ml brown bottles from the Formulary, mix up 5000 ml of Xtol type developer on a stirrer, fill the ten bottles up evenly then if there is any space at the top I add distilled water to each bottle. It’s never more than 10 or 15 ml in each bottle and the solution lasted for way longer than it should with no degradation.

[Duolab123]

Nonsense! Just buy some glass marbles.

I was kidding, it would work though.

[Duolab123]

The stuff that Tetenal sold was/is a mixture of propane and butane. Bic lighters contain iso-butane, gas is heavier than air, so is propane. I would use one of the long lighters except I'm afraid I will accidentally pull the trigger and blow up the bottle of chemistry. My wife has a neat little refillable butane torch. I use that to flush out the air, no ignitor.

[popdoc]

Small bottles with tasty beverages almost for free, and no explosion risk, works for me!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220120/b5af9a9d6a51a76cb15185da485c8727.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tin Can]

Butane is just a bad idea

[Peter Galea]

Private Reserve Wine Preserver - Uses inert argon, carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

[Tin Can]

Good tip Peter, I added it to my Amazon order

Thanks!


Private Reserve Wine Preserver - Uses inert argon, carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

[Ulophot]

My wife has the best suggestion of all: Take my chemistry bottles to the Costco auto shop -- they fill the tires with nitrogen.

[domaz]

My wife has the best suggestion of all: Take my chemistry bottles to the Costco auto shop -- they fill the tires with nitrogen.

The one around here is actually self-serve now. No idea if it's nitrogen but you could be on to something if it is. Of course if you forget to set the PSI very low your chemistry bottle would likely explode.

[Tin Can]

Actually a good idea

Free N2 at Costco, my 4 trailer tires go to 70 PSI

However it will stink from the odor the tire puts out, which is horrible

I had real stinky Winter Tires, when I put them in the hatchback I HAD to drive with the windows open

[Duolab123]

I just fill bottles to the top. Last Butane I used was splitting Tetenal E6 chemicals several years back. It did work well. Years ago Sam's club sold computer dusters that used straight hfc-134a. Bad news for global warming. Now iso-butane is used as refrigerant in household refrigerator/freezers.

[Conrad . Marvin]

I decided to check out how much error was introduced to the developer stock solution if I just mixed up the Xtol and topped off the bottles. I used a calibrated graduate for the test. It turns out that the 500ml bottles that I use hold 510ml. 2% more dilute. Insignificant. And extremely consistent with the added benefit of extending the life of the developer solution because I only have a “bubble” of air in each bottle.

[Ulophot]

Conrad, that's certainly valuable advice. In my case, although I have some smaller bottles that I have ordered at various times for this and other purposes, my standards have shrunk from the gallon jugs I used to use, to halves and quarts. The alleged quart bottles I use actually hold more like 34+ ounces, not 32, and the dilution would therefore be significant. Space is a factor for me. I already have several quarts each of print developer and fixer stored in the basement as a result of saving good money by buying gallon size rather than quarts/liters. Those stored bottles are full to the top, while the ones in my darkroom, currently in use, have some space. When they get to about 2.3 or a half, I transfer to whatever 16- and 8-oz bottles I have. We don;'t have central AC, so while the winter is not a problem, the summer gets hot in the darkroom. C'est la vie. The main issue is that I don't use the chemistry as regularly or as much as I did when I was a pro.

I began this thread wondering about an anti-oxidation product. The advice, as usual, has been plentiful and valuable. Thanks to all.

[Willie]

If you wanted to put up the money for a tank and regulator you could use nitrogen or argon from a welding supplier. A tank of nitrogen is pretty cheap to get refilled.

Small AirSoft tank filled with nitrogen should work OK.

[Duolab123]

This is a great strategy, IMHO.

[Duolab123]

This is a great strategy, IMHO.

My comments were to filling the bottle to the top.