New Autofocus 4x5"

[fist]

223540

223541

https://www.instagram.com/conflict.cameras/

I designed an autofocus interchangeable lens 4x5" camera.

Currently its in a prototype phase, first functional prototype is ready.

Its designed to be the ideal handheld 4x5", with extremely high accuracy laser based focusing system. Accuracy is in the range of 1-2mm.

So you can shoot wide open if you like. It can handle heavy fast lenses.

You can also calibrate framlines as you like, and for the format you are using. For example, its possible to have perfectly accurate and parallax corrected framelines for 6x12.

You can calibrate easily as many lenses as you like into it.

Lens range is 65-150mm. It has a focus pull of 62mm, so it enables close focus to about 50cm on 150mm. And on wide angle lenses you get to 10-20cm.

At zero position, it has a film to lenstandard distance of 90mm.

The back is designed mainly for Grafmatic/Kinematic multishot holders, but also takes regular double sided holders, polaroid holders & roll film holders.

It has a integrated semispot light meter, its able to calculate bellows extensions etc. automatically.

Also has accelerometer & gyro, so digital horizontal lines are available.

It will also be able to calculate depth of field, so you can adjust that based on a visual indicator in the finder.

It has a WIFI interface, and updatable firmware for additional functionalities.

The finder uses high quality coated glass optics.

I designed this based on my 20 years of LF shooting experience, and its designed to be my ideal camera.

Its as compact as it can, the frame is not much larger than the cassette dicates. Its fast, solid, accurate and capable of focusing close.

It will be available for sale when its fully ready. If you are interested in it, best way to keep up with it is through instagram. I will also release some other projects related to LF photography.

[Neal Chaves]

I have had a lot of experience photographing people in all situations with hand-held press and view cameras and I have also used FujiFilm digital cameras since the early 2000s. Graflex actually advertised the Kalart rangefinder as "automatic focusing" in the 1940s and 50s. With today's digital cameras, auto focusing means much more than rangefinding. We have face detection, eye detection, smile detection, identification and numerous other features, some these I have found very useful and advantageous. There are many reasons I might choose to use a hand-held press camera rather than a digital camera, but I don't feel that automatic rangefinding would be much of a benefit over a cam-coupled, split image rangefinder with rangelight or even be much faster.

[Tin Can]

I posted years ago my Laser FocuSpot

Works great but not for people or critters

Trees and bridges survive the cosmic blast

[ic-racer]

Looks interesting. I have been using autofocus 6x6cm format for a little over a year now and would not want to go back to manual focus.
I use two AF 6x6cm cameras, Rollei 6008AF and Rollei Hy6.

[Duolab123]

That's pretty cool. Be interested in seeing a teaser youtube video.

[Michael R]

Cool. I’d love to have autofocus on my view camera.

[John Layton]

Focus accuracy of 1-2mm would be fantastic if existing LF film holder/transport systems could reliably support this. Hmmm...possibly develop some kind of real-time (IR?) film position sensor which would instantaneously adjust the focus mechanism to accommodate environmentally caused deviations (expansion/contraction/swelling/sagging/"popping" of film) of actual film plane - at least at the exact position of actual focus measurement (as films can swell/contract/sag unevenly) to ensure that at least this area would be truly in focus every time...even at max. (wide open) apertures? Perhaps via a selected (or selectable) area focus lock mechanism - like...place the circle on the face, eyes, or wherever, hold down the shutter button halfway, re-compose (if necessary) and then trip the shutter completely - and the focus compensation mechanism would continually adjust for said (film position) deviations until that very instant?

[Bob Salomon]

Back in the 90s a rich guy in Germany patented a modular AF view camera system that took backs from 23 to 11x14. Electronics were mostly within the rail system. They exhibited at Photokina one year but never produced anything other then a prototype and a couple of beautiful brochures. But the backer also owned a salmon farm in Sweden or Norway and featured all you could eat smoked salmon, if they knew you at their booth.
A friend of mine who had been export manager of both Rollei and later LInhof was hired to be export manager for this new camera system.
I hope this new design has a better future then this older camera had.

[LabRat]

How will it's "brain" deal with a little tilt/swing???

Or selective focus point???

Steve K

[Guadarmar]

How can you use a little tilt/swing with a viewfinder and handheld?

No shifts, no tilts, no real reason for LF.
If you want to go fast and light, so go small.

If a AF should follow moving objets low moving mass is required.
LF lenses in a shutter are not on the light side.

What will be the use of AF in LF?

[Bernice Loui]

Niche market camera. IMO, autofocus is not that useful for sheet film cameras given the advantages sheet film view cameras can offer camera movement with highly controlled areas of focus and to what degree of apparent focus. What area of the view finder is used as the autofocus zone? If typical of autofocus cameras in the past, it would mean get the camera to focus at in that area of the view finder than re-compose the image as needed which alters the area of accurate lens focus. Not that appealing given how highly developed modern digital autofocus cameras are today. Then we come to lens choices which is IMO a very serious limitations.

This is effectively an autofocus 4x5 "point & shoot with significant cost per sheet of film and limited to the number of film holders to be used. Granted a grafmatic film holder could allow six sheets per holder. Question remains does the idea of an autofocus 4x5 "point and shoot" fit a market need?



Bernice

[Jody_S]

Interesting project, the technical challenges are surmountable with today's electronics, I would love to see it in action. Of course it sounds completely unsuited to my style of shooting, but someone out there wants this.

[Tin Can]

Autofocus needs the improved eye focus with follow of NIKON Z

Eyes are it and 4X5 is too small

5X7 or 8X10 at least so we can contact print

[fist]

I have had a lot of experience photographing people in all situations with hand-held press and view cameras and I have also used FujiFilm digital cameras since the early 2000s. Graflex actually advertised the Kalart rangefinder as "automatic focusing" in the 1940s and 50s. With today's digital cameras, auto focusing means much more than rangefinding. We have face detection, eye detection, smile detection, identification and numerous other features, some these I have found very useful and advantageous. There are many reasons I might choose to use a hand-held press camera rather than a digital camera, but I don't feel that automatic rangefinding would be much of a benefit over a cam-coupled, split image rangefinder with rangelight or even be much faster.

By autofocus, it means that you don't have to focus. That it moves the lens for you, based on where you want to focus. This is the definition of autofocus.

This is faster and more accurate, but one of the main benefits is actually that you can calibrate multiple lenses in this. This has always been an issue with speed graphics, where you can only calibrate one lens.

The other big benefit are the framelines, you get accurate projected framelines for all formats & lenses.

So its exactly developed to solve all the problems that are in current solutions. I have owned them all.

This is designed to suit my own need, to solve all the issues i have had with cameras. I have shot mainly handheld 4x5" from the start, and always trying to find the best way to do it. So this is camera designed by a photographer, to solve issues.

Its also designed to be as compact as possible, its actually more compact than most manual focus "point & shoot" 4x5" cameras.

That said, i do also have another system that i'm going to release that might be more suited for you.

[fist]

Autofocus needs the improved eye focus with follow of NIKON Z

Eyes are it and 4X5 is too small

5X7 or 8X10 at least so we can contact print

5x7 and 8x10" are not really something you can shoot handheld practically. The bellows draw would be too much for anything other than wide angle use. 4x5" is still perfectly practical as a handheld camera. This is made to be a realistic tool.

Also you need to understand the difference of a digital camera, that has a sensor instead of a film. I cant read the film to decide where there might be eyes :)

[fist]

Niche market camera. IMO, autofocus is not that useful for sheet film cameras given the advantages sheet film view cameras can offer camera movement with highly controlled areas of focus and to what degree of apparent focus. What area of the view finder is used as the autofocus zone? If typical of autofocus cameras in the past, it would mean get the camera to focus at in that area of the view finder than re-compose the image as needed which alters the area of accurate lens focus. Not that appealing given how highly developed modern digital autofocus cameras are today. Then we come to lens choices which is IMO a very serious limitations.

This is effectively an autofocus 4x5 "point & shoot with significant cost per sheet of film and limited to the number of film holders to be used. Granted a grafmatic film holder could allow six sheets per holder. Question remains does the idea of an autofocus 4x5 "point and shoot" fit a market need?



Bernice

Yes, you are right. This is a niche market camera. Its made to solve my own problems, i developed it as a tool for my own work.

Its not made to replace view cameras, its made to replace press cameras. Even though i shoot 4x5" handheld, i shoot 8x10" with view & field cameras. And sometimes even 4x5".

" it would mean get the camera to focus at in that area of the view finder than re-compose the image as needed which alters the area of accurate lens focus. "

This is a good point, in close focus this needs to be calculated in. The camera has an accelerometer & gyro, so it knows its orientation in space and can use trigonometry to adjust the focus when you recompose you shot.

Kinematic holders hold 10 sheets, so its comparable to medium format in that sense. Grammatics hold 6. And its exactly build for these holders. The cost is also low, thanks to Fomapan 200 :).

Im not sure how lens choices are a limitation? Plenty of lenses. Thats exactly one of its appeal, as there are a lot of really interesting LF glass out there from the press era. And the modern stuff.

I dont really even care about the market need to be frank :) Its made for my own work, and i also will make it available for others. I did not make this to please the markets.

[fist]

Focus accuracy of 1-2mm would be fantastic if existing LF film holder/transport systems could reliably support this. Hmmm...possibly develop some kind of real-time (IR?) film position sensor which would instantaneously adjust the focus mechanism to accommodate environmentally caused deviations (expansion/contraction/swelling/sagging/"popping" of film) of actual film plane - at least at the exact position of actual focus measurement (as films can swell/contract/sag unevenly) to ensure that at least this area would be truly in focus every time...even at max. (wide open) apertures? Perhaps via a selected (or selectable) area focus lock mechanism - like...place the circle on the face, eyes, or wherever, hold down the shutter button halfway, re-compose (if necessary) and then trip the shutter completely - and the focus compensation mechanism would continually adjust for said (film position) deviations until that very instant?

Sounds complicated :) But that would actually be quite easy, i just dont think its actually necessary. The firlm sensor.

The other stuff is pretty much impossible in a film camera. It would require a 4x5" sized digital sensor. Seems people dont really get the difference of having a sensor as capture device compared to film. All these face detection etc, require you to have a sensor you can read and detect the faces in.

[fist]

Back in the 90s a rich guy in Germany patented a modular AF view camera system that took backs from 23 to 11x14. Electronics were mostly within the rail system. They exhibited at Photokina one year but never produced anything other then a prototype and a couple of beautiful brochures. But the backer also owned a salmon farm in Sweden or Norway and featured all you could eat smoked salmon, if they knew you at their booth.
A friend of mine who had been export manager of both Rollei and later LInhof was hired to be export manager for this new camera system.
I hope this new design has a better future then this older camera had.

That sounds interesting. Always been motivated by the likes of Peter Gowland etc photographers who build cameras for their own needs and disregarded the norms.

[fist]

How can you use a little tilt/swing with a viewfinder and handheld?

No shifts, no tilts, no real reason for LF.
If you want to go fast and light, so go small.

If a AF should follow moving objets low moving mass is required.
LF lenses in a shutter are not on the light side.

What will be the use of AF in LF?

It has not tilt & swing. Though i have though about maybe adding it, but it might be something in the future and this will stay as base model. As im far more interested in making it really solid in its base functions.

Though there are some features i'm planning in developing for this, that i will make public later.

I have tested this upto 1.75kg. I actually way over specced it. Its not particularly good at following moving objects, that is something that still needs developing. It will have some sort of follow focus mode, but the type of laser used does not like fast moving objects. But this is about the laser system, not about the lens weight.

The main purpose is simply to focus accurately, to be able to calibrate multiple lenses, and to have accurate framelines for all formats & lenses. As these are features that lack from all the old press cameras.
They had mostly separate viewfinders & rangefinders (expect Beseler C-6 i think, and the Vuefocus system of Burkes & James). Had possibility to calibrate only one lens, or used fixed cams for specific lenses.

"What will be the use of AF in LF?" To waste large quantities of film in an instant! What is the function of AF in any format; to speed up things.

But the truth is, this is not so much about AF, its more about the accuracy that this type of focusing method offers. And the above mentioned features.

[fist]

I posted years ago my Laser FocuSpot

Works great but not for people or critters

Trees and bridges survive the cosmic blast

Yes, Iw done that also. This is basically a descendent of the Kalarts lightbulb system. As i used a similar laser system on my previous cameras long a go. Had one in a modified Patent Etui 9x12, that i shot a lot of film though. I also used the idea from Olympus XA4, that had a wrist strap that also doubled as a close focus distance measuring device :) I had that in my Patent Etui 9x12 to focus as close as 30cm.

And this is simply an evolution to my previous work. It was finally possible for me to build this, thanks to 3D printing and the availability of microcontrollers.

[Guadarmar]

Thanks for your reply.

This are just my thoughts and not a critic.
Intresting projekt. I will follow curiously.

Thanks for presenting

[Vaughn]

How will it's "brain" deal with a little tilt/swing???

Or selective focus point???

Steve K

Sounds like a point-and-shoot situation...one does not need movements, or even selective focus. Zone focusing seems good enough for hand-held 4x5 for most things. But there could be an advantage if one could auto-set and hold the focus where one wanted to. One could learn to use such a camera effectively if it fits the way one photographs.

[fist]

Yes, its a 4x5" point & shoot. Originally i planned to integrate a flash into it. I had a integrated flash in my previous version. But it was quite ruff, pre 3d printing project :) My use is mostly with a flash. And this camera fits that purpose perfectly.

It will have a way to adjust where you put the depth of field, it will show a visual cue of the available DOF front & back the focus point and you can adjust that. If you are shooting stopped down and actually have dof to play with.

It could also have features like where you take two distance measurements and the camera tells you what F stop to use to get this area in focus and focuses at the right point etc.

I will add features as i come up with different ways to use the hardware. That's one of the big benefits in having a updatable firmware. Currently im just focusing on the basics.

[Bill Burk]

This is a good point, in close focus this needs to be calculated in. The camera has an accelerometer & gyro, so it knows its orientation in space and can use trigonometry to adjust the focus when you recompose you shot.

That would be sweet! Can it refocus... say if you aim at subject's eye, recompose but they move slightly back, you'll re-focus on their eye because the focus aim followed?

[John Layton]

...in other words - when working in close, focussing on a face lets say...and then you rotate the camera to recompose - thereby placing the face in a different plane of focus - your accelerometer and gyro will keep that face in focus?

[fist]

...in other words - when working in close, focussing on a face lets say...and then you rotate the camera to recompose - thereby placing the face in a different plane of focus - your accelerometer and gyro will keep that face in focus?

Yes, it can calculate the triangle. As it knows the angle and the length of one of the sides.

But i would also add to this, that this is not exactly intended in replacing your 4x5" SLR camera. I would still shoot close up portraits with an SLR. This cant really handle long lenses, it has a usable range of 65-150mm currently. The bellows draw needed for 210mm etc lenses for close up would be too much for a camera like this.

But i do need to do that for my own work, so i will find a way to do it. This is why i'm thinking about solutions to this issue.

[fist]

That would be sweet! Can it refocus... say if you aim at subject's eye, recompose but they move slightly back, you'll re-focus on their eye because the focus aim followed?

You dont want to aim at someones eye with a laser :) It might piss them off :)

I think i will have a separate button for this. As you don't want to point that laser into someones eye :) Even if its eye safe laser, it might piss them off. So you focus on the forehead, and it compensates for it by focusing a set amount of mm deeper automatically.

But if the subject moves, this is not a problem with an autofocus. You just focus again, it takes practically no amount of time for it to do the tiny correction. So its way faster to just focus again than start to worry about adjusting the focus dial.

It wont move this fast, but even this would be possible :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2ZVPLc300k

This was a max speed test while i was testing the motor. It can be extremely fast if needed. And that's the total of 62mm of travel it has. Around 0.3sec.

[fist]

Here i was testing the max load carrying capacity at slower speeds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfu9GyOlZcA

[Ethan]

Here i was testing the max load carrying capacity at slower speeds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfu9GyOlZcA

Great! I can mount my 48" aero ektar to this camera! :P

This is an awesome project, I look forward to more updates!

[Hugo Zhang]

How easy to put a lens on the camera? Like other 45 Graflex SLR with a lens board?

[Ethan]

How easy to put a lens on the camera? Like other 45 Graflex SLR with a lens board?

It would be cool if there were electric contacts on the lens board, somewhat like DX coding on 35mm canisters, for the camera to know what the focal length is and automatically adjust its AF accordingly

[Bob Salomon]

It would be cool if there were electric contacts on the lens board, somewhat like DX coding on 35mm canisters, for the camera to know what the focal length is and automatically adjust its AF accordingly

But how would the lens board know what focal length and speed the lens to be mounted to it will be?

[fist]

But how would the lens board know what focal length and speed the lens to be mounted to it will be?

You will of course provide the focal length when you calibrate the lens, and the F stop is set in the integrated semi spot light meter.

[fist]

How easy to put a lens on the camera? Like other 45 Graflex SLR with a lens board?

Really easy. It has a large thread mount. And a removable adapter for wide angle lenses (65-75.. and maybe 90 also) that sets the lens plane a bit lower.

[fist]

It would be cool if there were electric contacts on the lens board, somewhat like DX coding on 35mm canisters, for the camera to know what the focal length is and automatically adjust its AF accordingly

That would be cool, but not sure if its really worth the wiring issues. Though there are ways it could be made really simple. Basically a single resistor would do the trick, so that would only require two wires.

But the main issue would be that it would add complication to the user, you would need to somehow now insert resistors into your lens board. And the whole idea has been to make the lens board system simple, so that anyone can get them easily and put together extended boards etc. Its completely open system. Also a thing i have been using & developing for multiple years.

As we all know, that lens boards are pain in the ass in LF cameras. 3D printing has basically solved the issue, but i rather not expect people to own printers. Or want to use plastic boards.

When you change the lens, you just select it from the lenses you have stored in the camera. I will make it so that when you start the camera it always shows clearly what lens has been selected, to avoid issues of having selected a different lens than you are actually using. Maybe like showing the current lens so that it fills the whole finder for 1-2sec when you start it.

The finder is actually the coolest thing about this, i just cant show it properly yet as i destroyed my only test screen.

The core of this system is the finder & the ability to calibrate basically unlimited amount of lenses. The autofocus came later.

[Bob Salomon]

You will of course provide the focal length when you calibrate the lens, and the F stop is set in the integrated semi spot light meter.

I wasn’t questioning your procedure. I was stating why dedicated lens boards would not be wise.

[fist]

Great! I can mount my 48" aero ektar to this camera! :P

This is an awesome project, I look forward to more updates!

Yes :) Well, im a large aperture lens geek. So i have to make this work with the big boys. Im really tempted in slapping a Compound #4 with a 165/2.7 Tessar onto this. I have not dared to test it yet.

But all the usual suspects, like Xenotar 150/2.8 i think should work. Planar/Xenotar 135/3.5 would be quite ideal for this, its not even a big lens and the focal length would be quite optimal.

I have already calibrated a 135/3.5 lens onto this, and the focusing is perfectly accurate wide open.

[fist]

I wasn’t questioning your procedure. I was stating why dedicated lens boards would not be wise.

Yes, sorry. I misread. And you are exactly correct, it would simply add complexity.

You would have to add a resistor to the board. Different resistance values would indicate different boards, and that would be matched by the data stored in the camera. So all it would need, is for the camera to recognise individual boards, the data would be stored in the camera.

There are of course other ways beside resistors, like magnets that could be used. But all in all, its just not worth the hassle.

[Duolab123]

Brilliant work, I look forward to seeing more.

[Oren Grad]

https://petapixel.com/2022/04/20/photographer-builds-the-worlds-first-autofocus-4x5-camera/

[europanorama]

Back in the 90s a rich guy in Germany patented a modular AF view camera system that took backs from 23 to 11x14. Electronics were mostly within the rail system. They exhibited at Photokina one year but never produced anything other then a prototype and a couple of beautiful brochures. But the backer also owned a salmon farm in Sweden or Norway and featured all you could eat smoked salmon, if they knew you at their booth.
A friend of mine who had been export manager of both Rollei and later LInhof was hired to be export manager for this new camera system.
I hope this new design has a better future then this older camera had.
do you mean the computerized 4x5 developped by follower company of sinar. or sinar-people? i missed demonstration here- but could find out its naming.

[Bob Salomon]

do you mean the computerized 4x5 developped by follower company of sinar. or sinar-people? i missed demonstration here- but could find out its naming.

Had nothing to do with Sinar. The marketing manager came from Linhof. They also had nothing to do with it.

[John Layton]

...the all you can eat smoked salmon sounds great - but you really should also bring on the bagels (cut in half and fried in butter till golden brown), cream cheese, thinly sliced red onions and tomatoes, capers, and beer...then you'd truly have a feast!

[fist]

This is quite final body of the 45AF, in full carbon fiber.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvmKiH9ChnU

The body is designed for grafmatic/kinematic holders.
Its only 24mm longer than the film holder, and this 24mm houses the complete motor drive and functions as an handle.
The bottom side is only 6mm thick, and this might still be reduced in future versions.
Its a completely new design by me. Enabling using regular double sided cassettes & graflock holders while keeping the dimensions as close to the film holders as possible.

https://aleksikoski.com/temp/BACK_2.jpg
https://aleksikoski.com/temp/BACK_1.jpg

[fist]

This is what's under the plastic handle, the redone drivetrain. This now gives a total of 63mm of focus pull, and overall makes the body extremely strong as the plastic only serves as a cover anymore.
It can move basically any lens, i have tested it up to 3kg.

Ill show the redesigned finder soon, and then it should be about done and shipping out for some field testing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImQZWhlqXZY

https://www.instagram.com/conflict.cameras/

[fist]

New looks:
https://aleksikoski.com/temp/45AF-insta1.jpg

New square finder with colors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAwOb_Skbdc

[fist]

Custom design compact universal 4x5" back that takes graflock & regular holders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5liqOnFMaR4

[John Layton]

So the focus sensor is located in the viewfinder? Good because this would (or could, depending on design) allow for "real-time" focus changes right up to the time of exposure. I could see this as being valuable in the realm of spontaneous street work, and especially portraiture while using medium long lenses while employing shallow depth of focus - where small movements by either photographer and/or subject can decisively "ruin" the most effective choice of focus.

[sharktooth]

Pretty impressive, I must say.

[fist]

So the focus sensor is located in the viewfinder? Good because this would (or could, depending on design) allow for "real-time" focus changes right up to the time of exposure. I could see this as being valuable in the realm of spontaneous street work, and especially portraiture while using medium long lenses while employing shallow depth of focus - where small movements by either photographer and/or subject can decisively "ruin" the most effective choice of focus.

Yes, thats the main point. This should enable fast and accurate focusing, with accurate framing. So you can concentrate more on the actual composition & subject and less on the fiddling.

It focuses where you want, and does it fast & accurately. The rest is on you.

The autofocus is just a way to achieve this goal, as rangefinders tend to be a bit fiddly in 4x5". Especially if you shoot with larger apertures.

It will of course come with its own limitations and quirks like every system.

[John Layton]

...and while one might argue for the effectiveness of a mechanical rangefinder, an additional advantage of autofocus is quick, real-time focus adjustments while maintaining a steady grip on the camera when doing hand-helds.

Makes me wonder about coupling this camera with the "motorized" 4x5 film back that was produced a number of years ago...by Sinar I think?

[Tin Can]

When?

[fist]

...and while one might argue for the effectiveness of a mechanical rangefinder, an additional advantage of autofocus is quick, real-time focus adjustments while maintaining a steady grip on the camera when doing hand-helds.

Makes me wonder about coupling this camera with the "motorized" 4x5 film back that was produced a number of years ago...by Sinar I think?

The actually main reason i build this, is the same as on the digital rangefinder module that i built. It enables you to switch lenses, that's the main benefit of this system. There is basically no limitations in what lenses, and how many lenses you can use on this. And you can move from one lens to another via few clicks, same as from formats. Like going from 4x5" to 6x7 and 6x12 and back on the same photoshoot. Its just brings so much flexibility.

Do you have any information about this motorized 4x5" back? I have never seen anything like that and i thought i was in the know about all the weird obscure 4x5" gear out there.

[fist]

When?

When it's ready, all my predictions have been so off that it's pointless to try to make them anymore. But its now in a good phase.

[Tin Can]

Good fortune to you!

[John Layton]

The motorized 4x5 holder was called the "Apeiron Load 50" and held (you guessed it) 50 sheets. I believe it was at least demonstrated as a prototype during a Photokina back in the 1990's (or late '80's?) - but I'm not sure that any made it out into the world as actual production models.

My guess is that Bob S. could chime in on this. Bob are you around?

[Mark Sawyer]

Buying a large format camera with auto-focus is like buying a self-driving sports car.

[Tin Can]

Not quite

The camera won't kill anybody

[fist]

The motorized 4x5 holder was called the "Apeiron Load 50" and held (you guessed it) 50 sheets. I believe it was at least demonstrated as a prototype during a Photokina back in the 1990's (or late '80's?) - but I'm not sure that any made it out into the world as actual production models.

My guess is that Bob S. could chime in on this. Bob are you around?

Thanks, seems there were at least on in ebay at some point but the only picture i could find was this small clip from some paper:

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?758-4x5-Film-motordrive&p=1304565&viewfull=1#post1304565

Interesting stuff!

[John Layton]

Would be interesting to bring this (Load-50) back and tweak it to integrate ergonomically with your auto focus platform. But man oh man at 50 frames per minute - make sure it has a single shot function! Then again, this rate capability would help to ensure that the camera would be ready for what is often that crucial "second frame" in the realm of candids/portraiture.

[fist]

Would be interesting to bring this (Load-50) back and tweak it to integrate ergonomically with your auto focus platform. But man oh man at 50 frames per minute - make sure it has a single shot function! Then again, this rate capability would help to ensure that the camera would be ready for what is often that crucial "second frame" in the realm of candids/portraiture.

I have thought about building something similar, but the design would have the be quite different to make any sense. As that thing is huge.

But currently grafmatics & kinematics are enough for me. As those give similar usability to medium format (6-10 sheets), and that's the goal. It does not need to chew film, just bring the usability to the level of medium format.

And as the back is designed to be fast, its easy enough to go from holders to holder.

[fist]

This was the last piece i wanted to implement for this camera, full GX680 lens support.
So you can set the shutter speed from the body, shutter automatically cocks, and aperture is communicated to the body.
And no need for cable releases, so these lenses turn this camera into a more integrated system.
Basically it also enables aperture priority auto, if you are into that sort of stuff.
It will be a separate lens mount module that connects to the camera.
I will also make a separate control unit for it at some point if people want to use it on other cameras.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN-lZANeBTU

https://www.instagram.com/conflict.cameras/

[Tin Can]

So it will be sold as finished product, minus lenses?

The blind like me, are interested!

[fist]

So it will be sold as finished product, minus lenses?

The blind like me, are interested!

Yes, both the camera & GX680 mount will be a finished products.

The GX680 mount will be an additional module you can get separately, and the camera will fully support it.

[sharktooth]

Have you checked to see if the GX680 lenses cover 4x5? I seriously doubt the 100mm and shorter ones will cover 4x5. You may be able to use a select few only.

[fist]

Have you checked to see if the GX680 lenses cover 4x5? I seriously doubt the 100mm and shorter ones will cover 4x5. You may be able to use a select few only.

Yes, only some of them cover 4x5". I think the 55 & 65mm won't cover, others should. They are also retrofocus, so not sure do people want to use the shorter lenses.. but that's up to them.
I definitely want to use some of these, they are interesting lenses. Retrofocus wides & telefocus longer lenses. Going to pick up a 250mm next.
And you can always use 6x12 & other roll film holders, so anything goes.
As this camera does not have any movements, these lenses might be actually a perfect fit. Smaller image circles usually translate to higher resolving power. And these lenses should be quite high quality.

The only issue is that they are unnecessary large because of the casing.
The shutter is also not optimal, as its made for an SLR so its made to be open all the time. You cant cock it whitout opening it for a moment, you can see that on the video. How the cocking opens and closes the shutter.
So you always need to have a darkslide in when you cock this shutter. But i think its still worth it, controlling everything from the body really adds a lot.

[fist]

I also tested mounting a Compound #5 behind the lens standard. Its makes perfect sense, as then the shutter no longer has to carry the weight of the lens.
Now I need to find a Betax 5 for this for that press cocking.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VCRpLdKHZI

I realised that this camera can support longer lenses, i never really thought about it before as i was kinda set to max 150mm. And max use longer lenses with really limited focus range.
But after some number crunching, i should get from infinity to 1m even on a 210mm lens.

Now i'm moving into a larger lens mount, so i can better use longer lenses with longer extension tubes.

[fist]

A big part of this system is the lens mount, the point is that it would be as easy as possible to use a wide range of lenses on this.
Eliminating the whole lens board hassle, or expensive proprietary extension boards etc.
The GX680 lens mount module is just one special mount, that enables all the electronic control.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tia-dJyc04Q

[Tin Can]

I wonder about using a finger to chose focus area

or any pointy stick

We often shift POV with focus

[fist]

I wonder about using a finger to chose focus area

or any pointy stick

We often shift POV with focus

I don't understand, a pointy stick to do what?

Oh you mean like multi point AF? This is just a single point AF.

Multi point sensors would not have the distance or accuracy that this has, usually they only work on short range. And the accuracy is in the centimeter range, this has accuracy of 1-2mm.

And multi point AF is paint in the ass to use, i have neve bothered to use anything but the center point. The selection process is so slow that it negates the whole idea of having an AF.

I might test some triangulation systems to compensate, but im not sure will it be necessary. Maybe only for extremely close range shooting.

Basically the same limitation as a rangefinder in this sense.

[Tin Can]

I understand it is singular point

But we often do not use center

Perhaps one person and we want the eyes and they are far from center

[Tin Can]

Those lenses were made for some movements and that will give the front tilt shift in 360 I think

The back can just focus

Sorry to confuse

[sharktooth]

This is definitely an interesting project. Anything new going on these days?