Horseman L45 With Wide Angle

[linuxid10t]

I recently bought a Horseman L45. This is my first foray into large format photography and I got a couple of lenses thinking more about the focal length than the practicality. One of them is a Fujinon SWD 75mm F/5.6. Two questions, first will I need to use the bag bellows? Second, will I need a recessed lens board? If I get the recessed lens board will I be able to use the regular bellows? Thanks in advance.

[sharktooth]

In theory, you should be able to use a 75mm with a flat board if you don't need much movement. if you've already got the lens, then just try it. An older 75 may not have a big enough image circle to allow much movement anyway.

Another less obvious concern is the actual setup of the camera. The front and rear standards look almost identical, and it won't be obvious which one is which if the camera has been disassembled and the ground glass back and lensboard removed for shipping. If it hasn't been reassembled properly, the orientation of the front and rear mounting points for the respective lens board and ground glass could be out of whack, and not cause any obvious functional problem, other than the lens board and ground glass being further apart than they should be. This would prevent you from achieving the minimum distance for very wide angle lenses, however. Check some images of the Horseman on the internet, to see if your camera looks to be set up properly. I had that issue with mine, and I was scratching my head at why I couldn't get the lens and ground glass close enough for even a 90mm lens. It was all due to the setup being screwed up.

[linuxid10t]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm out of the country right now and ordered entirely way too many things while in quarantine, I was supposed to go back tomorrow but now it doesn't seem like I will be back until the day after so I will have the camera as soon as I get home as opposed to a day later. I was originally going to print out myself some lens boards and wasn't sure whether to print a recessed one or not. Guess I will be able to find out rather quickly now though.

If you mind me asking, do you like the Horseman? Do you think it is a decent first LF camera? I was really attracted to the precision of the system and the geared movements. Not sure I will be taking it out much though...

[sharktooth]

If you mind me asking, do you like the Horseman? Do you think it is a decent first LF camera? I was really attracted to the precision of the system and the geared movements. Not sure I will be taking it out much though...

Forget about first large format camera, these babies are good enough for anybody.

[Bernice Loui]

Horseman L should be good with lens focal lengths to 65mm without a recessed lens board (60mm lens flange to GG distance). Do spend the $50 to get a Horseman or Sinar bag bellows as there is zero reason not to use a bag bellows with wide angle lenses from 65mm to ~90mm.

As for 3D printing a lens board, better and easier to purchase a Horseman/Sinar lens board as they will be far more proper than a 3D printed lens board.

Horseman L is one of the best monorail view cameras made. IMO, way under rated and appreciated in too many ways.


Bernice

[LabRat]

The only other tip I will add for these fine L series cameras is the one weak link with these is some of the lever locks are a hollow, thinner plastic that can crack over time, but if you are proactive, you can remove lever knob, fill it with a rigid epoxy (like JB weld) and re-install for extra strength...

Had to fix a friend's L knobs (the base tilt knobs), but his got too damaged (from regular use)... He couldn't get OEM replacements, so had to have a machinist make very nice replacements for them...

For the board, measure the distance from GG to lensboard with a ruler while camera is compressed to find out minimum distance available for short lenses... Note that short lenses usually don't have a large IC, and don't allow much movement anyway, so one less thing to worry about... And deep recessed boards usually make it hard to access shutter controls, and simple things (like screwing in a cable release) can become complicated...

Steve K

[linuxid10t]

Horseman L should be good with lens focal lengths to 65mm without a recessed lens board (60mm lens flange to GG distance). Do spend the $50 to get a Horseman or Sinar bag bellows as there is zero reason not to use a bag bellows with wide angle lenses from 65mm to ~90mm.

As for 3D printing a lens board, better and easier to purchase a Horseman/Sinar lens board as they will be far more proper than a 3D printed lens board.

Horseman L is one of the best monorail view cameras made. IMO, way under rated and appreciated in too many ways.


Bernice

I did get a Horseman bag bellows for the camera too, it should be coming in with the camera. I guess this will probably be necessary to use the wide angle? As for the lens board, I have some nice aluminum ones coming in, but they are coming in from China so god only knows when they will come in. The 3D printed ones will just be temporary hopefully. That being said, I haven't seen any designs for Sinar/Horseman lens boards out on the internet so I will have to create my own. Hopefully I can get some and post it, there seems to be a thread on this forum for that sort of thing.

Also, glad you like the camera, there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk about it and I was wondering if I made the right choice. Thanks :)

[Neal Chaves]

Check out the Sinar stuff that Robert's has. All very nice P2 4X5 cameras and accessories from Rochester Institute of Technology. You can buy Sinar bellows, viewers, lenses, which will all fit your Horseman for very low prices.

[Bernice Loui]

Be confident, having been a decades long Horseman L and Sinar user, Horseman remains one of the best monorails due to it's modularity like Sinar (there are specific limitations with Horseman L, but absolutely ok) and cross compatibility with Sinar in various ways. As a monorail, it is precise, accurate, stable and all those things and offerings any excellent monorail must have and offer. They were the absolute bargain over stuffed monorail camera for a very long time.

Best of the Sinar style lens boards are the last generation from Sinar. These are cast aluminum about 3-4mm thick, raised cast in Sinar Logo with a light trap channel and precision machined registration areas on each corner to assure accurate and precise registration of lens board to camera.. a feature no wooden camera offers. Horseman lens boards are made somewhat similar and are interchangeable. Mid generation Sinar lens boards are also cast aluminum but thinner without the light trap channel, black in color. Sinar Norma lens boards are Sinar olive green, thinner than the mid-generation Sinar lens boards, works good. All are interchangeable between Sinar-Horseman L.

This media marketing perk comes up with discussions about Horseman L and those new to this view camera stuff.
223255

223256

So yea, plenty of web media toots about lightweight field folders being "THE" view camera to have-use-own, except this style of camera does not and will not meet all view camera needs... and IMO, a monorail is easier to learn "how to view camera" on than a field folder.



Bernice




I did get a Horseman bag bellows for the camera too, it should be coming in with the camera. I guess this will probably be necessary to use the wide angle? As for the lens board, I have some nice aluminum ones coming in, but they are coming in from China so god only knows when they will come in. The 3D printed ones will just be temporary hopefully. That being said, I haven't seen any designs for Sinar/Horseman lens boards out on the internet so I will have to create my own. Hopefully I can get some and post it, there seems to be a thread on this forum for that sort of thing.

Also, glad you like the camera, there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk about it and I was wondering if I made the right choice. Thanks :)

[Tin Can]

I have a lot of Horseman 2X3, 4X5, 8X10

I second Bernice

[sharktooth]

Stop it, stop it now! I want these puppies to stay affordable ... at least until I get my second one.

[Jim Michael]

I have the same camera and lens. Things are a little tight without a bag bellows so worth the investment. Great camera.

[Michael Graves]

I have an L45 and a 75mm Rodenstock. Without a recessed lens board,it doesn't quite reach infinity, but stopped down, the DOF sorta-kinda gets you there. You're best off with a recessed lens board and a bag bellows.

[cp_photo]

I love my Horseman L45 and use it much more than my lightweight folding 4x5. Very solid cameras that are still available at a reasonable price!

[Bernice Loui]

Curious, why using the Horseman L more than the lightweight field folder?


Bernice




I love my Horseman L45 and use it much more than my lightweight folding 4x5. Very solid cameras that are still available at a reasonable price!

[cp_photo]

It's mainly because I have several cameras now, each quite different. Once I got my lightweight 5x7 (an Argentum Excursor I.) I have used that for any hike or general out of the house/office/studio use. It is very pleasant to use and weighs about the same as my Chamonix 4x5. The Horseman monorail is a joy to use with its precise movements and solid, stable feel. I have a few larger lenses on Sinar/Horseman boards that won't fit the Chamonix 4x5 with its Technika-sized lens board but I can use on the Horseman. Although it is not a lightweight camera, the Horseman is easy enough to disassemble and pack into a bag.


Curious, why using the Horseman L more than the lightweight field folder?


Bernice

[Daniel Unkefer]

Architectural Photographer Julius Shulman uses one here as he photographs for the Architectural Magazines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUQErQtVI04

I own this video and it is beautiful and moving.

[LabRat]

Used one often on pro shoots, but was never sure it could handle very heavy lenses, and always was careful to keep a hand on FS while operating controls, because I wasn't sure of the standard balance ( maybe just superstitious with the L standards)...

Steve K

[linuxid10t]

I have an L45 and a 75mm Rodenstock. Without a recessed lens board,it doesn't quite reach infinity, but stopped down, the DOF sorta-kinda gets you there. You're best off with a recessed lens board and a bag bellows.

I've come to the same conclusion unfortunately. I am working on printing a recessed lens board now. I hope 10mm is enough...

[linuxid10t]

Thanks everyone for all the help and encouragement. Here is an update. All of the kit has arrived and I just loaded up my first two film holders. The camera seems pretty great except the tilt knob for the front standard broke during shipping. Using some grippy material right now to operate it but I am going to go to the hardware store and see if I can't find something until I get an official knob. The seller of the camera is trying to source one for me. I watched an interview with Ansel Adams on Youtube the other day and it certainly seems like the Horseman L45 was the last large format camera he was using before his death. As for the lens boards, I am on a second revision of my 3D printed lens board now and they seem to work great. I have designed ones for Copal 0, 1, and 3 size shutters as well as 10mm recessed boards for each one. I will leave a link at the bottom of the post. I have tried two lenses in the straight Copal 1 board: G.Rodenstock Trinar-Anastigmat 13.5cm F/4.5 and Fujinon SF 180mm F/5.6. Both of these lenses fit well in the 3D printed lens board. Bag bellows and a recessed board seem like a must for the Fujinon 75mm F/5.6 lens I got. Working on printing a recessed board now but as the other poster commented it does seem like if I stopped down I could get infinity focus with the straight board.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5196070

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uzDU6uVtzClZs2tcJ5KWd5419Ehpd7U7/view?usp=sharing

Side note: Has anyone tried out a Rodenstock similar to the one I tried? I think it is from the 1920's or 1930's. I pulled it out of an old folder camera I got as a kid. It was one of those dry plate cameras you can't really find film for anymore.