Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

[r.e.]

I’m writing this while awaiting delivery of a 2002 copy of this lens, and of Schneider’s IVa centre filter, from Europe. Between Christmas and coronavirus, DHL is being slow as molasses on delivery.

I intend to use the lens with an Arca-Swiss F-Line camera configured for 8x10, although I also want to see how it fares with the camera configured for 4x5. In the next week or so, I’ll post some photographs of the camera, lens and centre filter, and talk about the lens’s image circle in relation to rise and shift. This post is about the lens’s basic characteristics and initial setup. I needed to sort out the issue of filters in particular. The post may be useful to people who are interested in buying a copy of the lens.

Focal Length Equivalent in Full Frame 35mm

The forum’s 8x10 lens comparison chart says that this is a 21mm lens in 35mm terms. Toyo has a chart that suggests 24mm. Mat Marrash, who owns a copy of the lens, says in his YouTube videos that he regards it as a 24mm equivalent.

Minimum Lens to Subject Distance

Schneider Kreuznach recommends a maximum scale of 1:3. For a 150mm lens, that’s achieved at a lens to subject distance of 0.6m (2’). I don’t anticipate using the lens that close to a subject. For close-up 8x10 at a scale of 1:5 and larger, I have a 210mm Nikkor AM ED Macro lens.

Working Apertures

Specifications:


Largest Aperture: f/5.6
Largest Aperture with Centre Filter: f/11
Smallest Aperture: f/64

As far as I know, Schneider has not recommended a range of working apertures. Rodenstock does for its 155mm Grandagon-N. For 8x10, it recommends f/22 to f/32. That sounds good to me. I also want to see how the lens performs at f/11 and f/16. I’m not in a hurry to use f/45.

Apparent Depth of Field

For me, one of the attractions of this lens is generous apparent depth of field compared to longer lenses. I made the chart attached to this post to get a general sense of the lens’s behaviour and for planning purposes. I wouldn't use the chart in the field to focus the camera. To make the chart, I used Cambridge in Colour’s depth of field calculator (https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/dof-calculator.htm).

The chart is for an 8x10 camera and a 150mm lens. It covers f/11 through f/32. It assumes that someone is viewing an 8x10 print at a distance of 25cm (10"). It also assumes that the viewer of the photograph has 20/20 vision, natural or corrected. This strikes me as a sensible assumption, but it results in notably more conservative values than is typical for depth of field charts.

Using Filters

This is a bit complicated. These are the relevant specifications:


Front element filter thread: 95mm
Front element filter thread with centre filter: 112mm
Rear element filter thread: 62mm

I was not set up to cover a diameter of 112mm. I use screw-in filters standardised at 82mm and a Lee100 filter holder with Lee square/rectangular filters that are 100mm wide. The paragraphs below discuss options for dealing with this problem.

Using the Centre Filter

I purchased Schneider Kreuznach’s IVa Center Filter to address light falloff. I’m happy to use the lens, as the centre filter requires, at an aperture of f/11 or smaller. The trade-off is a loss of 1.5 stops of light. I see the loss as equivalent to 1.5 stops of neutral density, manageable and in some circumstances beneficial.

Using a Polariser or Neutral Density Filter

What about stacking a filter on top of the centre filter? As noted, the centre filter takes screw-in filters that are 112mm (4.4”) in diameter. Few companies currently make filters in that size, those that do offer a limited range and prices are high. I’ve been able to acquire the following at reasonable prices, which will meet my current needs:


NiSi Natural Polarizer. When rotated to neutral, it should also be possible to use this filter as roughly a 1-stop ND filter. This filter has a male thread on one side, female on the other.
Tokina Cinema PRO IRND. Typical of ND filters for digital filmmaking, these filters also cut infrared light. Tokina makes 1-stop through 8-stop. I have 4-stop and 7-stop. Tokina's IRND filters only have a male thread.

I should note that I'm interested in a polariser to control reflections and glare, not to darken skies, which tends to be problematic with a wide angle lens.

I can also use these filters with my Nikon Nikkor W 360mm, which takes 95mm screw-in filters. I expect that a 95mm to 112mm step-up ring and these filters will often be more convenient than using my Lee100 Holder and 100mm square/rectangular filters. I've purchased a step-up ring made by a relatively new company called Lüzid. Made of brass, it's competitively priced and seems to be a decent product.

As far as I can tell, none of the top filter makers currently make 112mm skylight, black and white or colour correction filters. No doubt these filters are available used, but it may take some patience.

Using a Neutral Density, Black and White, Etc. Filter on the Rear Element

It’s possible to add a screw-in filter without stacking it on the centre filter. As noted above, the lens’s rear element takes 62mm screw-in filters. One could also use a Kodak gel filter on the rear element, or indeed in front of the lens.

There’s a fairly detailed discussion about the mechanics and pros and cons of this approach in the recent thread Using a Neutral Density Filter on a Rear Lens Element (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?166701-Using-a-Neutral-Density-Filter-on-a-Rear-Lens-Element).

Because I'm standardised at 82mm, I'd use a 62mm to 82mm step-up ring if I wanted to use a screw-in filter rather than a Kodak gel. I would consider this option for a neutral density, skylight, black and white or colour correction filter. When it comes to a polariser mounted on a rear element, I think that getting the rotation right would take patience.

Obviously, there’s a point where adding filters to the front element will result in vignetting. If this happens, mounting a filter on the rear element is a way to solve the problem.

Using a Graduated Neutral Density Filter

I don’t make rural landscape photographs and I use a graduated neutral density filter for urban photography infrequently. If I want to use one with this lens, the cost-effective option is to forego the centre filter and compose with light falloff in mind, or try to reduce falloff during processing. My Lee100 filter holder for 100mm filters, and Lee100 graduated NDs, will fit the lens’s native 95mm filter thread. This option, while not ideal, may work adequately for me because I use negative film. I would not consider this an option if I used reversal film.

My second option for graduated NDs is to purchase Lee’s SW150 filter holder, or similar, and 150mm (6”) graduated ND filters. However, Lee and other makers of 150mm filter systems don’t make adapters for filter threads larger than 105mm in diameter. Consequently, I’d have to pay someone to make a 112mm adapter, perhaps S.K. Grimes, perhaps someone who does 3D printing. I’ll try the first option before deciding whether to go to the expense of the second.

MORE TO COME WHEN THE LENS IS DELIVERED


Depth of Field Chart, 8x10, 150mm, 20/20 Vision

This chart is in metric. The distance column on the left includes feet at 5m and 10m and then at 10m intervals. “HD” in the column headings stands for hyperfocal distance.

222871

[ic-racer]

I'd be interested in how much movement you will be expecting (44mm?) and if will require a bag bellows.

[r.e.]

I'd be interested in how much movement you will be expecting (44mm?) and if will require a bag bellows.

I have my Arca-Swiss camera set up with a bag bellows for 4x5 but not 8x10. As mentioned above, DHL is being very slow on delivery of the lens. If it isn't here in the next couple of days, maybe I'll do a dry run - mount one of my current lenses on the camera, extend the bellows 150mm and see how much rise and shift I have.

These are Schneider Kreuznach's specifications for 8x10 landscape orientation at f/22, focused on infinity:

Vertical Rise: up to 52mm (2.05”)
Horizontal Shift: up to 44mm (1.73”)

[Oslolens]

You got a 141mm square lens board. If the lens board can be placed in any direction you might consider a slightly off-centre hole to avoid the bag bellows.
Here is mine on a 6x6" original Wehman, 21mm off.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220101/b645f7e7e65403ac7bf82aedae4b49d0.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[r.e.]

You got a 141mm square lens board. If the lens board can be placed in any direction you might consider a slightly off-centre hole to avoid the bag bellows.
Here is mine on a 6x6" original Wehman, 21mm off.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220101/b645f7e7e65403ac7bf82aedae4b49d0.jpg

Thanks, I've never thought about lens offset before, but there are a few threads on the forum that touch on it. Let's see if I understand your suggestion.

My Arca-Swiss uses 171mm (6.7") square boards, not 141mm. However, I gather that what matters is that the board is square and can be mounted to the front standard in four orientations. Offsetting the lens from the board's centre creates 21mm presets for rise, fall, left shift and right shift. It's hard to be certain from the photo, but your lens appears to be 21mm from the centre of the board, not from the side of the board. Is that correct? Why 21mm in particular?

[Oslolens]

your lens appears to be 21mm from the centre of the board, not from the side of the board. Is that correct? Why 21mm in particular?

Yes, 21mm from centre.
If too much, the bellows might come between, if too little there is no meaning.
I can not remember how I came to this number, but room for mounting the lens board with lens might have been the biggest concern, you see in the photo there is not much wiggle room after mounting, 2-3mm at most.
Anything from 15-20mm could be enough.
My data on the Wehman says 100mm of rise and 75mm fall, but the stability will be a bit better with less rise.
One good thing about this lens is the possibility to use Technica lens board, and lens board hole. The offset hole make me loose this advantage compared to Nikkor-SW or 155 Grandagon. On the other side, the bigger lenses would not be possible to mount off-centre by much.

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[r.e.]

I have my Arca-Swiss camera set up with a bag bellows for 4x5 but not 8x10. As mentioned above, DHL is being very slow on delivery of the lens. If it isn't here in the next couple of days, maybe I'll do a dry run - mount one of my current lenses on the camera, extend the bellows 150mm and see how much rise and shift I have.

These are Schneider Kreuznach's specifications for 8x10 landscape orientation at f/22, focused on infinity:

Vertical Rise: up to 52mm (2.05”)
Horizontal Shift: up to 44mm (1.73”)

The lens arrived in New York this afternoon, so I should receive it within the next couple of days. I did a very rough check of rise/fall and shift with another lens mounted on the camera. I'm using Arca-Swiss's standard 8x10 500mm bellows. At 150mm of bellows, I comfortably get about 30mm (1.2") each of rise, fall and left/right shift, no stress on the bellows. At 180mm/190mm I get Schneider Kreuznach's full specification (see quote above).

When I receive the lens, I'll do this more carefully, with the XL 150mm mounted and focused. I want to see the effect of increasing amounts of rise, fall and shift, and also try out tilt and swing.

[r.e.]

Yes, 21mm from centre.
If too much, the bellows might come between, if too little there is no meaning.
I can not remember how I came to this number, but room for mounting the lens board with lens might have been the biggest concern, you see in the photo there is not much wiggle room after mounting, 2-3mm at most.
Anything from 15-20mm could be enough.
My data on the Wehman says 100mm of rise and 75mm fall, but the stability will be a bit better with less rise.
One good thing about this lens is the possibility to use Technica lens board, and lens board hole. The offset hole make me loose this advantage compared to Nikkor-SW or 155 Grandagon. On the other side, the bigger lenses would not be possible to mount off-centre by much.

Hi Oslolens (and other readers),

Let's see if I've got the arithmetic right.

From Schneider Kreuznach's specs, landscape orientation (reverse for portrait orientation):


available rise/fall: 52mm
available left/right shift: 44mm

Diameter of the Super-Symmar XL 150mm Rear Barrel: 65mm
Front Element : 95mm
Front Element with Centre Filter: 112mm

Dimensions of my Arca-Swiss lens board: 171mm x 171mm (Oslolens's Wehman board is about 150mm x 150mm)
Amount of vertical and lateral movement that my standard bellows gives me at 150mm: 30mm, but let's say 26mm to be conservative (see post #7 above)

Where to centre the Copal #1 hole: 26mm from the centre of the lens board
Distance from the centre of the Copal #1 hole to the edge of the lens board: 59.5mm (exceeds the half-diameter of the lens's rear barrel, front element and front element with centre filter)

Result for rise/fall: With my front standard zeroed, I'd have 26mm of rise or fall. I could use my rise/fall control to increase rise/fall to as much as 52mm (Schneider's maximum) or decrease it to 0.
Result for left/right shift: Zeroed, I'd have 26mm of left or right shift. I could use my shift control to increase shift to as much as 44mm (Schneider's maximum) or decrease it to 0.

If this is correct, are there any downsides to doing this?

I would note that this is probably inconsistent with using an Arca-Swiss recessed lens board. The Arca recessed boards that I've seen are partially pre-milled on the back for Copal sizes, which means that the Copal hole has to be centred on the board. See photo below.


Arca-Swiss Recessed 171mm Lens Board, Rear

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[Oslolens]

The main thing is to have the camera work with lens straight on.
Picture show my Wehman with 150mm XL on a 21mm off-centre lens board. Any more decenter and the back lens group would touch.
I have probably lifted the front a tiny bit in to dark corner, as I did not check corners stopped down to working aperture, only f5.6https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220103/58f509403b853847034ea55f1d2be411.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220103/abc086b6f6f2f6a5f775226e95b2a64a.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[r.e.]

The main thing is to have the camera work with lens straight on.
Picture show my Wehman with 150mm XL on a 21mm off-centre lens board. Any more decenter and the back lens group would touch.
I have probably lifted the front a tiny bit in to dark corner, as I did not check corners stopped down to working aperture, only f5.6

Thanks very much. As you said in a message to me, something else to pay attention to is ensuring that the inside walls of the bellows don't overlap the lens image.

[r.e.]

Per post #7, I won't get all of the available rise, fall and shift until the bellows is extended about 180mm. As the chart below shows, at 180mm I'm approaching close-up territory with a scale/reproduction ratio of 1:5. When customs releases the lens, one of the first things that I need to do is decide whether the rise, fall and shift that is available before 180mm (it's 30mm at 150mm) is adequate for the time being. If not, the options are a wide angle bellows or Oslolens's suggestion (post #4 and following) to address this via off-centre placement of the lens on its lens board.

This chart deals with exposure add-ons for bellows and filters, but the first two columns show the relationship between scale and bellows length:

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[r.e.]

Re graduated neutral density filters (post #1), I asked Lee Filters about hiring someone to make a 112mm adapter ring for its SW150 Holder. If I decide to go this route at some point, I'd engage S.K. Grimes to do the work given what Lee's reply says. This is from Lee's U.S. office:


"So i just heard back from the UK and they let me know that the performance of the holder on a custom ring would really depend on the design of the ring and the expectations you have for the holder.

"In theory you could have a 112mm thread with an extension out in front to mount the holder, but you likely won't achieve the wide angle performance of the LEE Adaptor Rings. This is due to relying on the ability to position the holder over the lens, which puts the first filter as close to the lens element as possible. Based off the info provided you wouldn't be able to mount the holder in the optimal position, which may cause the holder to be visible in the image.

"Ultimately it could work but we cannot guarantee it due to it not being a 3rd party product."

S.K. Grimes has made filter holders in the past, and it might make sense to ask it to make one of its own design that will work with 150mm wide filters.

There are some discussions on the internet that have convinced me to also try hand-holding a graduated ND filter, which appears to be a more common practice than I would have thought.

I think that it will be useful to spend some time learning how sensitive the lens is to vignetting when the centre filter is in place. With the lens by itself having a filter diameter of 95mm (3.74"), the centre filter adds a further 17mm (0.67").

[r.e.]

I guess because of the season, it took DHL ten days to ship the lens from Europe to New York, and customs another three days to release it. In any event, now I have the lens and centre filter, which appear to be in wonderful condition. This weekend, winter weather permitting, I'll find out whether the standard bellows gives me enough rise/fall and shift for my current needs, and post a couple of photos. If not, the options are a bag bellows or, as Oslolens explains above, mounting the lens on a lens board off-centre.

[ic-racer]

Looking forward to the results. I enjoy super-wide photography, but find it very challenging.

Sometimes it is clearly obvious a super-wide lens was used, but other times, it is not obvious; there can be more mystery in the image as to why it looks to way it looks.
For example this one. Even seasoned photographers might not immediately recognize this as a 125mm lens on 8x10. To me that mystery makes it special.

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[Bernice Loui]

Size of the objects in the foreground relative to the objects in the background are an absolute give-away this image was made using a wide angle lens. Larger this difference = wider angle or shorter focal length of the lens used to create the image. This is also why many have difficulty with "wide angle" lens images.


Bernice



Looking forward to the results. I enjoy super-wide photography, but find it very challenging.

Sometimes it is clearly obvious a super-wide lens was used, but other times, it is not obvious; there can be more mystery in the image as to why it looks to way it looks.
For example this one. Even seasoned photographers might not immediately recognize this as a 125mm lens on 8x10. To me that mystery makes it special.

223236

[ic-racer]

I think of that image in terms of lack of converging perspective lines. There are lines on the center rock, but how big is it and are they even parallel? They are not parallel or level and produce conflicting vanishing points.
Even with obvious converging perspective lines, there still can be some mystery.

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[Bernice Loui]

What lens was used?
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What lens was used?
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Bernice

[r.e.]

Weekend snow followed by freezing temperatures is not co-operating with the idea of taking the camera and lens outdoors to assess whether my standard bellows allows enough rise/fall and shift for my needs. The forecast predicts a break toward the end of the week.

I have looked into the practicalities of mounting the lens off-centre. I'd need a blank Arca-Swiss 171mm lens board, flat rather than recessed for the reason explained in post #8. This means coming across new old stock or ordering one from a third party maker. There appear to be one or two makers in China, and there may be one in the U.K. The blanks made by Arca-Swiss that I've seen have a pilot hole in the centre. If a pilot hole goes straight through, it would have to be filled or covered. Add the cost of hiring a machinist to drill a Copal #1 hole.

I'm not holding my breath on coming across a 171mm 8x10 bag bellows second-hand. I know that Arca-Swiss made a 171mm 4x5 bellows for a forum participant a few months ago, but I haven't asked yet whether it will make an 8x10 or what it would cost. A Hong Kong maker wants about US$425, which is a fair bit less than what Arca-Swiss would likely want. A purchaser of a 4x5 bellows from the Hong Kong maker tells me that he thinks that his is well-made.

Photo of a blank Arca-Swiss 171 lens board
from eBay. Another photo in the eBay listing
shows that the pilot hole goes through to the
rear of the board.

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[Oslolens]

. The blanks made by Arca-Swiss that I've seen have a pilot hole in the centre. If a pilot hole goes straight through.

If you need to use an Arca with pilot hole, you can reduce the off-centre dimension until the pilot hole is within the hole needed.
For a hole with diameter copal #1 (41.6mm) I would use a hand held drill and a tungsten hole bore a bit smaller and a round file.
40mm tungsten hole drill: $15 on amazon or ebay.
You do not need the structural integrity of a welded hole, so this can be filled with black glue.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220110/a65b426125fbd53698a8400f4aaa959a.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[Bob Salomon]

If you need to use an Arca with pilot hole, you can reduce the off-centre dimension until the pilot hole is within the hole needed.
For a hole with diameter copal #1 (41.6mm) I would use a hand held drill and a tungsten hole bore a bit smaller and a round file.
40mm tungsten hole drill: $15 on amazon or ebay.
You do not need the structural integrity of a welded hole, so this can be filled with black glue.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220110/a65b426125fbd53698a8400f4aaa959a.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

To do it correctly, never use a drill, it can cause strains in the board and using one could damage you.
Use a chassis punch. Greenlee makes them.

[mhayashi]

Hello r.e. Just for your reference,

I recently purchased 4 flat copal 0 arca swiss 171mm lensboards from S.K.Grimes.
Adam and Joel charged me 140USD for each plus shipping to Tokyo. These are not recessed and
I needed the flat ones for fast long petzval lenses that couldn’t be mounted on 141mm lensboards.

https://skgrimes.com/products/lens-boards/#arca

Also for 171mm front standard 8x10 bellows, Keith of custom bellows in UK made me an extra long 80cm custom arca swiss bellows for 220GBP plus shipping.

You can send your frames and Keith will refit to new bellows for you.

http://www.custombellows.co.uk/

I also have the same problem as you describe for ssxl 150mm with the center filter.
I’m thinking to buy a used SW150 mark I filter holder and then buy a custom made adapter ring to join the holder on the center filter.

I hope the information helps you.

[r.e.]

Hi mhayashi,

Thanks for suggesting S.K. Grimes as a source for a 171 flat lens board. If I go the off-centre route, I could purchase the board from Grimes and ask them to drill a Copal #1 off-centre at the same time.

Custom Bellows is said to do excellent work, but as you say I'd have to supply the frames. I might ask Grimes what it would want to make them.

I assume that you've seen the response that I got from Lee Filters (post #12) about a custom adapter ring for the SW150 holder. I'd like to stay in touch with you on this question since we may adopt the same solution. I've sent you a personal message with my e-mail address.

[r.e.]

I'm not holding my breath on coming across a 171mm 8x10 bag bellows second-hand. I know that Arca-Swiss made a 171mm 4x5 bellows for a forum participant a few months ago, but I haven't asked yet whether it will make an 8x10 or what it would cost. A Hong Kong maker wants about US$425, which is a fair bit less than what Arca-Swiss would likely want. A purchaser of a 4x5 bellows from the Hong Kong maker tells me that he thinks that his is well-made.


Bernice Loui just received a bellows from the Hong Kong maker (eTone (https://www.etonephoto.com)) and has posted this positive first impression: e-Tone Bellows for Linhof Technikardan 23s (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?167030-e-Tone-bellows-for-Linhof-Technikardan-23s)

I also like @mhayashi's suggestion of Custom Bellows (http://www.custombellows.co.uk), sending them bellows frames either purchased from Arca-Swiss or made by S.K. Grimes.

This is a photo of my camera with a 30cm rail, Arca-Swiss's 50cm 8x10 bellows and the Schneider Kreuznach Super-Symmar XL 150mm. Without taking into account the lens board's 13mm recess, there's about 225mm of bellows in this photo. When we come out of the current deep freeze, I want to get some accurate measurements of how much practical rise/fall and shift I get with this bellows with various subjects and bellows extensions. At the bellows length in the photo, I can get full rise/fall and shift. However, magnification, taking into account the lens board's 13mm recess, is about 40%, which is of limited usefulness:

223609

[r.e.]

Further to the above post, this is a photo of the same camera and rail configured for 4x5. That's an Arca-Swiss leather bag bellows and 75mm Rodenstock Grandagon N MC. Without doubt, an 8x10 bag bellows is the best solution for the Schneider Kreuznach 150mm. It's a question of cost.




223610

[r.e.]

A digression... I've been asked about the tripod head in the photos in the two posts above. It's a Miller CX6 fluid head, which has a load capacity of 12kg/26.4lb. I purchased it for video, but now I also use it with my large format camera. It makes levelling, panning and tilting the camera pretty much effortless.

These two photos are side and rear views of the CX6 supporting a Blackmagic Cinema Camera. The controls at the back set counterbalance and drag, and there's a night light.


223662

223663


The CX6 makes it possible to balance a camera so that it will pan and tilt easily and smoothly, as well as stay put when it's tilted up or down. This is easily repeatable for a given camera and lens setup. There's a wrinkle for large format cameras. A change in bellows extension will throw balance off. However, if I balance my Arca-Swiss and a given lens at infinity focus, panning and tilting the camera remains easy even if I extend the bellows further.

In these two photos, my Blackmagic camera is not locked down. I've just used my hand to tilt it to these angles, where it will remain indefinitely.

223664

223665

Miller fluid heads are made in Australia. I also considered a Cartoni head, which are made in Italy, but I liked the fact that Miller has a North American office just outside New York City. If I lived on the west coast, I might well have chosen Cartoni, whose distributor is in Los Angeles. At the time, I discounted Sachtler's heads, which are made in Costa Rica, because I believed that they were nearing the end of their product life. This turned out to be correct. Buying now, I would also consider Sachtler's new fluid heads, released last year. I should note that a fluid head is probably not attractive to someone who wants minimal weight. The CX6 weighs 2.2kg/4.9lb. I see its mass as a benefit, but a backpacker might be less keen :)

[r.e.]

We had a break in the weather today. I took the camera out on the street and learned that I have enough rise/fall and shift, in practical photo-making situations, with the standard bellows. However, I suspect that being unable to use the camera's and lens's full range of movement the closer I get to infinity focus (150mm) will eventually become annoying. A bag bellows or off-centre lens board is probably in my future.

As a result of an e-mail exchange and discussion with S.K. Grimes, I'm also satisfied that I can set up the centre filter to use 150mm graduated neutral density filters. A 112mm ring adapter for Lee's SW150 Holder, and a holder designed by Grimes, are both possible options, although neither is inexpensive.

[Beano_z]

We had a break in the weather today. I took the camera out on the street and learned that I have enough rise/fall and shift, in practical photo-making situations, with the standard bellows. However, I suspect that being unable to use the camera's and lens's full range of movement the closer I get to infinity focus (150mm) will eventually become annoying. A bag bellows or off-centre lens board is probably in my future.

As a result of an e-mail exchange and discussion with S.K. Grimes, I'm also satisfied that I can set up the centre filter to use 150mm graduated neutral density filters. A 112mm ring adapter for Lee's SW150 Holder, and a holder designed by Grimes, are both possible options, although neither is inexpensive.

I was browsing through your previous posts and noticed that you had already contacted LEE regarding the filter holder, but what surprised me was that they didn't mention their own 115mm push on holder. It fits the Schneider IVa center filter perfectly and can be used with 2 stacked rectangular filters without vignetting when no movements are applied (perhaps that's the reason it is not applicable to you situation?).

[r.e.]

I was browsing through your previous posts and noticed that you had already contacted LEE regarding the filter holder, but what surprised me was that they didn't mention their own 115mm push on holder. It fits the Schneider IVa center filter perfectly and can be used with 2 stacked rectangular filters without vignetting when no movements are applied (perhaps that's the reason it is not applicable to you situation?).

Hi Beano. As you know, the 115mm push-on holder takes Lee's 100mm filters. Are you saying that you've tried Schneider's 150mm XL lens and IVa centre filter with this holder and 100mm filters, and found that there was no vignetting when the camera is zeroed? If so, thanks, that's extremely helpful to know. I wondered (post #12) whether one might be able to get away with a filter less than 112mm across, but haven't had a way to test it.

I was dealing with Lee in California, and as far as I can tell this push-on holder is no longer sold in the U.S. It may be available in the U.K. Robert White doesn't appear to list it, but Linhof Studio may have it (see below, requires a stock inquiry); and of course it can be purchased second-hand.

Lee 115mm Push-on Holder

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