Tele-Xenar 5.5/500 on a Linhof 5x7 [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

NormaN

21-Nov-2021, 13:43

Hello, everyone

I recently bought a Linhof Technika 5x7. Among other things, a Tele-Xenar 5.5 / 500mm was included.
An orchid served as a model for the first experiments. The image enlargement was approx. 1: 2. One photo with aperture 5.5 @ 1/4 sec., The second with aperture 11 @ 1 sec. Focusing was a bit difficult ....
In the picture taken with f / 5.5 a "glow" is visible at the edges of the orchid leaves (in the blurred areas?). I would be interested in how this effect shows up in portraits. Have any of you experience with this lens in portraits? And what is not clear to me: With the compound shutter, no cable release is used, but there is a nipple for a compressed air release. Are there standard products for this? Or just use a hose with a syringe?

Thank you for your tips

NormaN

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David Lindquist

21-Nov-2021, 14:32

In your third picture the thingy sticking out from the circumference of the shutter as you go counter clockwise from the shutter speed dial, is that what you are referring to as the nipple? It should be threaded internally for a cable release.

David

NormaN

22-Nov-2021, 01:33

Thank you David!

How could I not look inside!
Because of the external shape, I thought of a hose connection ...
I like the shutter a lot, especially its "full" sound when it is released.

NormaN

Delfi_r

22-Nov-2021, 02:10

This is a Compound V shutter, a big and rare beast. Treat it nicely. Your lens is a beautiful example of how nice are the photos taken with a 15 or more leaf shutter.

rawitz

22-Nov-2021, 02:17

Hi NormaN,
your pictures at 5,5f and 11f is typical for this (kind of) lens. Soft wide open because of chromatic aberration (no APO lens) getting better stopping down. Maybe the same effect as a special soft-portrait lens, but not the same construction.
Stopped down to 22f you can use this lens even for 8x10, but clearly detoriating to the corners in sharpness and color fringing.
The compound shutter has continious times, so you can easely recalibrate the shutter times yourself.

regards
Rainer

NormaN

22-Nov-2021, 06:05

This is a Compound V shutter, a big and rare beast. Treat it nicely. Your lens is a beautiful example of how nice are the photos taken with a 15 or more leaf shutter.

Thank You Delfi_r
It is really a nice shutter in very good condition!
NormaN

NormaN

22-Nov-2021, 07:21

Hi NormaN,
your pictures at 5,5f and 11f is typical for this (kind of) lens. Soft wide open because of spherical aberration (no APO lens) getting better stopping down. Maybe the same effect as a special soft-portrait lens, but not the same construction.
Stopped down to 22f you can use this lens even for 8x10, but clearly detoriating to the corners in sharpness and color fringing.
The compound shutter has continious times, so you can easely recalibrate the shutter times yourself.

regards
Rainer

Hello Rainer

Thanks for pointing out the stepless shutter speeds! Did you somehow measure this on yourself?

Regards
NormaN

Daniel Unkefer

22-Nov-2021, 07:32

My repairman says that Compound shutters are the most consistent. Air pressure is pretty unchanging for the most part, I guess. A simple beautiful mechanism. It is good information that the Compounds have stepless speeds.

That is a beautiful rare lens. Enjoy it.

I am surprised it is so soft? My 360 Tele-Artons and Tele-Xenars are not so close up. But then I do tend to use them at F22

rawitz

22-Nov-2021, 08:31

I´m not telling second hands stories. I have this lens and worked with it up to my ULF cameras (9x15, but thats out of the limit).
Physically it´s not "softer" than other conventional (non APO) tele lenses as Tele-Artons or Tele-Xenars, the pic example here is not fair, but be aware the focal quotient, which detoriates IQ not linear but quare times the focal lenth.
In summary, its a perfect lens for my Linhof Technika 5x7, even better if you have a focusing-cam, which I have not.
For the calibrating issue, I like the practical approach, comparing the 1sec shutter to my practical measurement and calculate accordingly for the shorter times. Its important and not very known, that after tightening a compound shutter you have to wait some seconds (3 ore more) to complete the shutter air tension. Too fast releasing means to short exposure time.

regards
Rainer

NormaN

22-Nov-2021, 09:09

My repairman says that Compound shutters are the most consistent. Air pressure is pretty unchanging for the most part, I guess. A simple beautiful mechanism. It is good information that the Compounds have stepless speeds.

That is a beautiful rare and incredibly expensive (now lens). Enjoy it. A perfect match to that camera.

I am surprised it is so soft? My 360 Tele-Artons and Tele-Xenars are not so close up. But then I do tend to use them at F22

Hi Daniel

Could it be that the Linhof selected versions are more expensive? Mine is a "regular" Schneider...

or the softness: Unfortunately I have no comparison. Maybe because I didn't use a cable release (because I wrongly assumed that a compressed air release was needed) and the camera was mounted on the housing for this purpose. Maybe it would be better balanced if I had mounted the tripod on the open front "door".

I also struggled to focus with the aperture fully open ...

NormaN

NormaN

22-Nov-2021, 09:16

I´m not telling second hands stories. I have this lens and worked with it up to my ULF cameras (9x15, but thats out of the limit).
Physically it´s not "softer" than other conventional (non APO) tele lenses as Tele-Artons or Tele-Xenars, the pic example here is not fair, but be aware the focal quotient, which detoriates IQ not linear but quare times the focal lenth.
In summary, its a perfect lens for my Linhof Technika 5x7, even better if you have a focusing-curve, which I have not.
For the calibrating issue, I like the practical approach, comparing the 1sec shutter to my practical measurement and calculate accordingly for the shorter times. Its important and not very known, that after tightening a compound shutter you have to wait some seconds (3 ore more) to complete the shutter air tension. Too fast releasing means to short exposure time.

regards
Rainer

Hello Rainer

Thanks for the info regarding the shutter speed. The previous owner told me that you have to wait a bit after cocking the shutter.

Unfortunately, I didn't understand the focal quotiont / IQ ....

NormaN

Daniel Unkefer

22-Nov-2021, 09:18

NormaN,

I think this is a fantastic lens and I have wanted one for a long time. I have two 360mm black barrel Tele-Xenars, (one Plaubel Makiflex 9x9cm auto aperture and one in barrel), and presently looking for a third one for my TLR project. Much fun ahead.

This one appeared on Ebay so just now I bought it. It also has the Compound shutter and the original hood. I think you might want to reshoot with a long cable release and use a magnifier for fine focus? Hope these are helpful suggestions. Yes if you can center the weight of the camera I think you might like the result

I'll be testing mine with 5x7 Sinar Norma and possibly 9x9cm Plaubel Makiflex

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174746102901?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

David Lindquist

22-Nov-2021, 11:20

Thank you David!

How could I not look inside!
Because of the external shape, I thought of a hose connection ...
I like the shutter a lot, especially its "full" sound when it is released.

NormaN

Good, glad that worked out. Deckel used that style of cable release on the dial-set Compurs also.

1966 and 1970 (dates based on what I take to be date codes) Schneider brochures I have show the 500 mm Tele-Xenar covers an image circle of 312 mm at f/16 and is recommended for maximum format of 18 x 24 cm. I calculate the diagonal of 8 x 10 inches to be 325mm while that of 18 x 24 cm is 300 mm.

I'd forgotten that there was a 1000 mm Tele-Xenar. The 1966 brochure shows only an f/8 version; it was not available in a shutter. The 1970 brochure adds an f/10 version. It was available in a 5 FS shutter. I think that's the electronic No. 5 Compur. Other Schneider lenses in this brochure taking a No. 5 shutter are also shown using the 5 FS.

On edit: The 5 FS is the electronic No. 5 Compur. In the 1970 brochure lenses formerly mounted in the No. 4 Compound are among those now mounted in the 5 FS.

Both the f/8 and the f/10 1000 mm Tele-Xenars have the same coverage as the 500 mm, an image circle of 312 mm.

David

NormaN

22-Nov-2021, 15:35

Good, glad that worked out. Deckel used that style of cable release on the dial-set Compurs also.

1966 and 1970 (dates based on what I take to be date codes) Schneider brochures I have show the 500 mm Tele-Xenar covers an image circle of 312 mm at f/16 and is recommended for maximum format of 18 x 24 cm. I calculate the diagonal of 8 x 10 inches to be 325mm while that of 18 x 24 cm is 300 mm.

I'd forgotten that there was a 1000 mm Tele-Xenar. The 1966 brochure shows only an f/8 version; it was not available in a shutter. The 1970 brochure adds an f/10 version. It was available in a 5 FS shutter. I think that's the electronic No. 5 Compur. Other Schneider lenses in this brochure taking a No. 5 shutter are also shown using the 5 FS.

Both the f/8 and the f/10 1000 mm Tele-Xenars have the same coverage as the 500 mm, an image circle of 312 mm.

David

Hi David

Thank you for the infos
Found this Catalogue from 1961 with some data....

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00896/00896.pdf

NormaN

David Lindquist

22-Nov-2021, 16:10

Hi David

Thank you for the infos
Found this Catalogue from 1961 with some data....

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00896/00896.pdf

NormaN

Thank you for this, led in part to my editing my post #13.

David

rawitz

23-Nov-2021, 03:47

Hello Rainer

Thanks for the info regarding the shutter speed. The previous owner told me that you have to wait a bit after cocking the shutter.

Unfortunately, I didn't understand the focal quotiont / IQ ....

NormaN

If you compare the MTF-curves of any series of LF-lenses, like Super-Angulon, Symmar-S and also Tele-Xenar, the optical performance detoriates if the focal length becomes larger. So a Tele-Xenar 500 IQ is worse to a TX 360 or 270, even if its the same lens construction, the same with SAngulons or Symmar-S.
If you double the focal length of the same lens construction, you also double the residual optical lens errors, everything else being equal. An unsharp-circular area with doubles in x and y dimension, results in a square unsharp-circular area.
I apologize for my excursion, but there was a question I had to answer.

regards
Rainer

Ron (Netherlands)

23-Nov-2021, 06:01

Sold mine long ago..., never got tack sharp pictures out of it

Tin Can

23-Nov-2021, 06:16

I have used Tele 360 on 2X3 portraits

Tack sharp was not my goal

Daniel Unkefer

23-Nov-2021, 07:11

I have found that my two 360mm Tele-Xenars I have always found to be sharp enough for my uses, on par with my 360mm Tele-Artons.
Without going too far off track here is a typical example from the little brother of the 500mm. What is relevant to me is that I have often had to crop the 6x9 negs, just not enough magnification. So the idea of the 500mm is worth investigating. If it covers 18x24 I can shoot XRAY Mammo in that size which will be fun.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49631288177_bed6b26433_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iBKjR8)Hill Rd Statue Makiflex Auto 360mm f6.8 TeleXenar (https://flic.kr/p/2iBKjR8) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Plaubel Auto Makiflex with 360mm f5.5 Schneider Tele-Xenar in Plaubel Makiflex auto-iris mount. My first test of this new to me lens. A nice compliment to my 360mm Tele-Arton, which is bigger and faster. Ilford FP4+ in 120 Plaubel 6x9 Makina Back, ADOX Borax MQ Dev Aristo #2 5x7 RC Multigrade dev

Bernice Loui

23-Nov-2021, 11:06

Given how many decades the Schneider 360mm Tele Xenar was produced and all of it's variations, no wise to form an impression of ALL 360mm Tele Xenars based on a single or limited lens sample. At one point, had three 360mm f5.5 Tele Xenars of the same 1980's vintage on hand to check out. All three were consistent and optically good to being very close to each other. These are black barrel and likely multi coated.

Performance at full aperture of f5.5 was good, good as it can be at f8. Image degraded past f16.

Not too long ago, the collection included a 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar, this sample proved to have similar optical performance to the 360mm f5.5 Tele Xenar.

While the optical performance was not ideal or absolutely excellent at f5.5, once the aperture is at f8, the optical performance was more than GOOD. Some would dis-like the lower contrast rendition compared to a modern design such as the Tele Nikkor. Primary difference being contrast rendition, NOT "sharpness"..

Keep in mind the design goals of a LF "tele photo lens" design is to reduce camera and bellows extension for view cameras with limited camera and bellows extension and they tend to be optimized for images made at or near infinity focus. Not the ideal choice for close up images as there are FAR better lens choices for images like these.

Bernice

Tin Can

23-Nov-2021, 11:20

Bernice, I agree

I experiment, as experts were not forthright in my past

There is a member here who uses only the back half of the 360 for very good portraits

Also a personal IRL friend, I trust

Daniel Unkefer

25-Nov-2021, 07:48

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51704343963_53a9ad9901_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mLWh7g)Schneider Tele Xenar (https://flic.kr/p/2mLWh7g) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Daniel Unkefer

3-Dec-2021, 11:03

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51721130102_08396445de_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mNqj3s)500mm Schneider Tele Xenar on Makiflex Standard (https://flic.kr/p/2mNqj3s) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Amazingly this focuses to infinity when attached to the Plaubel Peco Jr Tubus. A friend in England purchased the tubus for me and then shipped it to me. It's kind of rare I think.

This lens appears tack crisp, and just a bit lower in contrast, in the viewfinder of the Makiflex. I like how it looks. I could probably hand hold it at 1/500 (maybe). This is cool and I'm glad I grabbed it. Sometimes the 360mm Tele-Xenar just does not have enough telephoto pull for me.

And I will be putting it on my 5x7 Norma as well

Daniel Unkefer

5-Dec-2021, 09:35

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51726555493_25a84dd9df_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mNU7PF)500mm TeleXenar vs 350 PlanarS (https://flic.kr/p/2mNU7PF) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

My present favored long lens for 6x6 is the 350mm f5.6 Tele-Planar on the EL/M. I hand hold this outside even at outdoor rock concerts. Above is the 9x9cm/4x5 Plaubel Makiflex Automatic with the 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar. This camera has a patented braking system for vibration free release. Previous to this longest lens available was the 360mm f5.5 which I have in Auto Iris Maki mount. The 360mm has also been hand holdable with this camera. . I can shoot 4x5/9x12 sheet film (have both) as well as 6.5x9 Plaubel Makina backs or anything Graphic mount.

The Makiflex needs a solid tripod, The cable release is modified Sinar Norma, with an adapter a machinist friend made for me.

The 500mm on the camera is focused on infinity and the lens focuses quite close with this set of Wista tubes stacked together.

Daniel Unkefer

8-Dec-2021, 09:15

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51733548463_6ee527385a_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mPvXA8)500 Tele Xenar on 5x7 13x18 Sinar Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2mPvXA8) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Here I have neatly attached the flange for the 500mm to a Norma board. Needs a bit of flat black paint to dull the bolts and screws on the back of the board, and it's ready to go. Ran out of flat black Krylon, my local Lowes is out

I bought this new to me 500mm f5.5 Schneider Tele-Xenar specifically to use on my 13x18cm 5x7in Sinar Norma. This is heavy but can be transported out in the field. Here it is focused on about an 8x10 inch area (so up close), my plan is to test it with black background and some fresh orchids. To my eye on the GG it looks pretty sharp although soon we will see with film.

Jim Andrada

8-Dec-2021, 21:34

I was just re-reading this and looking at the photo of the shutter something occurred to me. The threaded "nipple" you point out may be able to fire either with a cable release or an air hose and bulb. Somewhere around here I have a shutter with the nipple and I tried both ways of tripping it and they both worked. I'll rummage around and see if I can find it.

Air hoses work wonderfully if you want to stand 10 or 20 or more feet from the camera.

NormaN

17-Dec-2021, 09:10

NormaN

17-Dec-2021, 09:33

Daniel Unkefer

17-Dec-2021, 09:47

Hi NormaN,

I am going to make something up more permanent for Plaubel than tubus and lens held together with blue painters tape. LOL It works.

Nope I have never seen this "extension board" before. Looks very solid and professionally made to me. Have you tried any other test photographs yet? I am glad I pulled the trigger on this one. I am a Tele-Xenar fan. The 500mm does not come along often

Your setup sounds quite useful with the lens set for infinity on the bed scale. Good Luck with it :)

Philippe Grunchec

11-Apr-2022, 05:38

BTW, is it possible to mount a 5.5/500 Tele Xenar in a modern shutter?

Bernice Loui

11-Apr-2022, 15:31

Yes, except the full aperture will no longer be f5.5 due to the shutter diameter limits of a# 3 shutter.
This is why the 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar was offered in a Compound# 5 shutter (which IMO, is a very GOOD shutter).

Alterative is to use the 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar with a Sinar shutter.
226455

Bernice

BTW, is it possible to mount a 5.5/500 Tele Xenar in a modern shutter?

Philippe Grunchec

14-Apr-2022, 04:34

Yes, except the full aperture will no longer be f5.5 due to the shutter diameter limits of a# 3 shutter

Bernice

Thx Bernice,
But all Copal 3 shutters I have are too small!

Daniel Unkefer

16-Apr-2022, 09:12

Hi Phillip!

Check this one out. Sinar Norma board Ilex #5 500mm Tele-Xenar. Sa-Weet! Compound #5 is shutter that will last forever. Very little to wear out. Air pressures are constant thing. Very consistent shot to shot

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154940456496?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D2feb29d98c544fdea8fbc8c579344e8c%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D154940456496%26itm%3D154940456496%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DSchneider&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A200925ab-bda0-11ec-8826-0a82b2046f20%7Cparentrq%3A3326699f1800a4982e1e2372fffe12d8%7Ciid%3A1

Daniel Unkefer

31-Oct-2022, 09:12

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52465697221_80a6018c46_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nWdpUz)SONY DSC (https://flic.kr/p/2nWdpUz) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Kodak 2402 Plus-X Aerographic Five Inch Perforated, comes in a 350 foot roll. Cut the film in the dark to fit a 5x7 Lisco Holder, then exposed in a 5x7 Sinar Norma, with my 500mm f5.5 Schneider Tele-Xenar. Developed in D23 1:1, loaded into an 8x10 Unicolor Print Drum, and spun on a Unicolor Uniroller. Negative shot at F32 using Broncolor strobes Kelly Portrait lighting. Will be contact printing this, then will enlarge it a bit to check detail. The 500mm lens I have had CLA'ed it is mounted in a Compound #5. I also exposed more film at F22, I will develop that a bit less, to see the differences.

Mine is sharp as a razor blade close up.

Daniel Unkefer

3-Dec-2022, 20:22

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52541424923_76b42042be_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o3Ux7B)5x7 PlusX 2402 Aero D23 5x7 Norma 500mm Tele Xenar (https://flic.kr/p/2o3Ux7B) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Kodak Aerographic Five Inch Plus-X cut seven inches, to fit a 5x7 Lisco Holder. 5x7 Sinar Norma with my newly CLA'ed Schneider 500mm Tele Xenar at F22. Hasselblad 40mm Distagon Yellow Filter jammed inside the lenshood, it fits! D23 1:1 8x10 Unidrum on Uniroller. 5x7 Contact Print on Arista #2 RC Dektol 1:2

The Tele-Xenar is quite sharp up close as you can see. I'm liking this film for 5x7, but I can also cut it to 4x5 or even 9x12cm. Like the tonality you get with the Aerial emulsion