View Full Version : Film Developing Rant and CineStill DF96 Monobath - Am I Lazy?
Hey!
I haven't shot any film since August, mostly because I'm loathe to process, scan and retouch.
Developing film has been a 30-year chore for me, and despite my efforts to make it less tedious (Jobo tank, sheet film washer, etc) I can't stomach the idea of doing it again.
The last straw was in August, I shot about 45 rolls of film (35mm/120) over a two week period.
I spent a solid 6 weeks in "post-production" and I'm still exhausted by that whole endeavor, not eager to re-visit it soon.
So I've become quite lazy about developing, in that I don't shoot film so that I don't have to process it!
Yes, digital is looking good these days.
In my never-ending quest for ultimate film-developing sloth-dom, this CineStill caught my eye.
Start to finish in a mere 3-6 minutes, any film goes, and results seem to be good.
I realize it's a more expensive route than using the standard methods, but if this can numb me further to film processing's utter monotony, then I may just pick up the old 8x10 again.
I know there are home-brews, but that would just add to the work involved. Uh-uh.
CineStill experiences and opinions? Call me lazy if you must.
The floor is open.
Ironage
18-Nov-2021, 08:10
I haven’t tried the CineStill, but it does interest me so I will be following this thread. But…
I would encourage you to follow your heart on this. It can’t hurt to try, and if it doesn’t satisfy go ahead and make the digital switch. You will need a lot of money to make the switch, so that old 8x10 could provide seed money.
I love the darkroom side of camera work, and would never consider going digital because I find it to be loathsome, but you need to do you. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. If you love shooting film, find a lab person to collaborate with.
Tin Can
18-Nov-2021, 08:38
Ari, it seems like you recently sold some DIGI
Buy your idea of best Digi and get on
I like my tiny DIGI Z dc for all it's DIGI features
I dream of Z9
but I will never buy another printer
Thanks, Ironage.
Oh, I already shoot plenty of digital: full frame and medium format with infrared thrown into the mix.
I like the results and the process, even though its often predictable in ways that film isn't.
Hopefully the lazy phase will end and I'll get back to film in earnest.
Maybe using a monobath developer will help?
Randy, I'm always trying out cameras and lenses. I've settled, for now, on Sony A7r for infrared and A7R2 for work.
And I'll be trying out the Fuji GFX soon for studio portraits. Exciting stuff!
I'm now convinced that soulless digital sensors have caught up to MF film cameras.
I spent years getting the current 8x10 kit I have now, and would not sell it except in case of an emergency.
But I wish I used it more, it's just that the darkroom time stretches my patience these days.
Or I could do what other greybeard photographers do: hire young, pretty darkroom assistants. :)
Tin Can
18-Nov-2021, 08:55
Now I know you are crazy
My last DR crush was too distracting and she brought her dog
Mark Sampson
18-Nov-2021, 08:55
Using a monobath is only slightly simpler than using a 'standard' film processing method. I doubt that you'd be saving much time and effort. Why not send your exposed film to a good lab? Praus Productions in Rochester comes to mind.
Tin Can
18-Nov-2021, 08:57
I love the ease of my bubbling hangers
nolindan
18-Nov-2021, 09:08
If I had 45 rolls to process I would find a commercial dip & dunk and and scan/proof lab. My darkroom is reasonably well equipped but any job of that size would overwhelm it and me. It may not be that you are lazy but that you are not lazy enough.
I played around with monobaths in the 60's. I decided they worked when, accidentally - given a certain combination of film, monobath, technique and phase of the moon - they failed to fail. 35mm Tri-X worked the least worst. I think that is still the case.
I've never heard of anyone using a fast acting monobath and sheet film - but I'm sure someone is doing it. I imagine there would be a steep learning curve.
I rarely shoot more than a few sheets of 8x10 at a time so I don't find traditional tray development to be a big deal.
Using a monobath is only slightly simpler than using a 'standard' film processing method. I doubt that you'd be saving much time and effort. Why not send your exposed film to a good lab? Praus Productions in Rochester comes to mind.
Hey Mark!
I couldn't bring myself to send out my film when I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself. I'll save that for my dotage.
Maybe I'm simply lacking the motivation to shoot more film, but I also hope that it will pass.
I enjoy very much the process of framing, adjusting and exposing film. That never went away.
But the darkroom always needs its pound of flesh.
If I had 45 rolls to process I would find a commercial dip & dunk and and scan/proof lab. My darkroom is reasonably well equipped but any job of that size would overwhelm it and me. It may not be that you are lazy but that you are not lazy enough.
I played around with monobaths in the 60's. I decided they worked when, accidentally - given a certain combination of film, monobath, technique and phase of the moon - they failed to fail. 35mm Tri-X worked the least worst. I think that is still the case.
I've never heard of anyone using a fast acting monobath and sheet film - but I'm sure someone is doing it. I imagine there would be a steep learning curve.
I rarely shoot more than a few sheets of 8x10 at a time so I don't find traditional tray development to be a big deal.
Reading up on it recently, it seems like it does work with sheet film, so I'm willing to give it a try.
And admittedly, the 40 rolls I shot was a bit of an anomaly, but I don't hold back when I want to shoot.
I keep plenty of film around, and I prefer that it gets used.
But yes, the post-production really drained me.
abruzzi
18-Nov-2021, 09:30
to me the developing is the easy part. the time consuming part is the digital post workflow or the analog post workflow. I'm not doing the digital post any more (hate, hate, hate photoshop/lightroom), but the analog post (enlarger, paper, etc.) is still 10 times the work of shooting and developing the negatives.
to me the developing is the easy part. the time consuming part is the digital post workflow or the analog post workflow. I'm not doing the digital post any more (hate, hate, hate photoshop/lightroom), but the analog post (enlarger, paper, etc.) is still 10 times the work of shooting and developing the negatives.
This could become a group rant!
paulbarden
18-Nov-2021, 09:58
The last straw was in August, I shot about 45 rolls of film (35mm/120) over a two week period.
I spent a solid 6 weeks in "post-production" and I'm still exhausted by that whole endeavor, not eager to re-visit it soon.
So I've become quite lazy about developing, in that I don't shoot film so that I don't have to process it!
CineStill experiences and opinions? Call me lazy if you must.
The floor is open.
Ari, I learned a long time ago that when it comes to producing my own work, exposing/developing huge volumes of film is going to poison my enjoyment of the work. So these days I stick to crafting ONE idea into ONE (or two) image and use as little film as possible to get me there. Often, this is one or two rolls of film, or 2-4 sheets of 5x7/8x10 film. I don't let film sit around unprocessed - I get to it immediately (as much as is practically possible: there are exceptions) and I try to finish the piece the same day I process the film (scan, post-process and publish).
This approach has made it all manageable and very enjoyable.
But if you use words like "loathe" to describe how you feel about darkroom work, then you're already beyond the point where switching to less laborious chemistry is going to fix what's wrong.
abruzzi
18-Nov-2021, 10:03
This could become a group rant!
well its not so much a complaint--more of an observation. Since COVID started, I've been working off the hook and it show little sign of letting up. This has mostly killed my darkroom time. So I have little more than contact prints made from the last year and a half. On the other hand, photographing is like vacationing so I'd still find time to do that, even if I never developed the film. So today, I shoot and develop with the hope that my works settles down enough to start printing again.
But my point ultimately is that if you find that the amount of work to shoot->develop->scan->post-process is too much, it seems to me that halving the amount of time spent on <develop> may not have that much impact the amount of time spent on the whole process.
To be fair, Paul, I've always loathed film processing.
But it's a necessary evil on my road to worldwide fame.
Ari, I commend you on your honesty. I wouldn't send my film out either. At the end of long trips (pre-Covid) i've found myself with lots of film to be processed. I still tray develop the LF film, but have an assortment of large Nikkor tanks (up to 6x 120). I'm also not willing to sacrifice the development to monobaths. I've been using PMK and then Pyrocat in glycol for many years now and prefer the negatives i get. Best of luck overcoming the mental fatigue. & I'll still take a 120 or LF neg to a Fuji GFX image all day everyday.
paulbarden
18-Nov-2021, 10:35
To be fair, Paul, I've always loathed film processing.
But it's a necessary evil on my road to worldwide fame.
Then farm it out to someone else.
well its not so much a complaint--more of an observation. Since COVID started, I've been working off the hook and it show little sign of letting up. This has mostly killed my darkroom time. So I have little more than contact prints made from the last year and a half. On the other hand, photographing is like vacationing so I'd still find time to do that, even if I never developed the film. So today, I shoot and develop with the hope that my works settles down enough to start printing again.
But my point ultimately is that if you find that the amount of work to shoot->develop->scan->post-process is too much, it seems to me that halving the amount of time spent on <develop> may not have that much impact the amount of time spent on the whole process.
To be honest, I felt like griping.
I've been spoiled with digital these last few months, not just in the processing (I much prefer PS/LR to wet work), but also in how easy it is to bring all the essentials for a shoot in a small shoulder bag.
In a big way, I do miss shooting the 8x10, so I guess I'm getting ready to get back to it, and as some wisely suggest, lessen the amount of film processing, or space out the processing days.
Last time I had no choice, I had to buckle under, or I'd still have the film sitting here unprocessed.
Ari, I commend you on your honesty. I wouldn't send my film out either. At the end of long trips (pre-Covid) i've found myself with lots of film to be processed. I still tray develop the LF film, but have an assortment of large Nikkor tanks (up to 6x 120). I'm also not willing to sacrifice the development to monobaths. I've been using PMK and then Pyrocat in glycol for many years now and prefer the negatives i get. Best of luck overcoming the mental fatigue. & I'll still take a 120 or LF neg to a Fuji GFX image all day everyday.
Thanks, Greg. You're right about the fatigue, which is why digital has been a mental relief of sorts.
Good to know your opinion on the monobath process, I will give it a try to see for myself, but I doubt it's a viable long-term solution.
It becomes easy as cooking a meal... Just get into the groove... A couple of weeks processing a run a day/night will get most of it out of the way... Set up everything so you can easily start each run each day... Monobaths do not save much time, so regular processing is fine when you add the loading, washing, and drying time to it...
FWIW, max capacity for roll film tanks for even agitation throughout reel stacks is 4X 35mm, and 2X120, or reels in middle of the stack will develop unevenly...
Get to work!!! You will feel better with the task behind you!!!
Steve K
Get to work!!! You will feel better with the task behind you!!!
Steve K
Steve, I am working...just not with film!
I have a Jobo that takes 6 120 reels, and I can add some 35mm rolls when needed.
Small dedicated space for developing, washing and drying. Same for scanning and re-touching.
Developing is down pat, well, I hope so after all this time.
So I'm set up and prepared, but no mojo for it.
We'll see what happens.
The consensus about the monobath seems to be "it isn't worth it".
I think of processing as a zen thing... No fones, or anything to bother me... Just me and it... Zen, like raking leaves, necessary, but mindless, and creating/realizing during the time... ;-)
Steve K
sharktooth
18-Nov-2021, 11:38
It sounds like the problem is that you've taken a digital mindset to film. 45 rolls of film in 2 weeks means hundreds to thousands of photos, and that's a digital mindset. It's the kill them all now and sort it out later approach.
If you knew you had really great photos on a roll, there would be no problem developing that roll since the excitement would be overwhelming. If you didn't have that excitement to develop the roll, it's almost certainly because you weren't expecting anything spectacular from it. At that point it really does become a chore.
As paulbarden noted, if you're shooting film, try to limit the shots to something you've already pre-visualized as being great. That will almost certainly result in very few pictures, if any. Large format is suited well to this approach, but it doesn't suit every type of subject matter or style.
paulbarden
18-Nov-2021, 11:38
Doing film/darkroom work is like any other relationship in your life: you have to like/love the entity you're spending that time with. If you can find a way to change your mind about that relationship, then your feelings about it will follow.
In 1996/97, a series of very unpleasant events dominated my life (deaths, general unhappiness, exhaustion with my work as a darkroom technician, etc), and in 1998 I changed everything in my life. Literally everything. I sold off my darkroom and admitted to myself that I was glad to be done with it, probably forever. Well, it took fifteen years for me to finally heal from some of these things, but in 2013 I was seduced by the idea of going back to very simple technology that could be fun, but required very little commitment: pinhole photography. By 2016 I had a Hasselblad, a couple of TLRs, and I bought an 8x10 Deardorff. I converted a spare bedroom into a darkroom of sorts (just enough to get work done), and another year later, I took a Wet Plate workshop.
My attitude in regard to hand-made photography now? I wake up every day, wondering "which of my amazing cameras/processes I am going to play with today?!" Most days - in spite of the darkness of the pandemic - I am finding immense pleasure in making carefully crafted photographs.
This enjoyment has been far more sustainable than it was 20 years ago because I carefully meter myself: don't work on more than one or two things at a time, don't let unprocessed film pile up, don't use shirtloads of film in pursuit of any given idea, etc. In other words, I embrace an economy of materials, time and energy. If I start to feel like I have to push harder than is comfortable to get done what I want, then I set my tools down for a day and go do something else, and let the work gestate in my subconscious. In most instances, it can wait till tomorrow. This philosophy has served me well over the past 8 years, and I am having more fun now than most any time in my photography "career". (Its not my career anymore - I am just working for the pleasure of it)
So as trite as it may sound, I suggest you identify and cultivate your happy place in the work. I get the impression you're struggling to find out where that place is. I'll say it again: volume/backlog is the enemy of joy.
It becomes easy as cooking a meal... Just get into the groove... A couple of weeks processing a run a day/night will get most of it out of the way... Set up everything so you can easily start each run each day... Monobaths do not save much time, so regular processing is fine when you add the loading, washing, and drying time to it...
FWIW, max capacity for roll film tanks for even agitation throughout reel stacks is 4X 35mm, and 2X120, or reels in middle of the stack will develop unevenly...
Get to work!!! You will feel better with the task behind you!!!
Steve K
If i have more than 2 rolls of 120, then i put a towel in the bottom of my sink & roll the tank..... i've not had problems with uneven agitation.
Bernice Loui
18-Nov-2021, 11:50
Processing film is much the same as loading sheet film, all part of the image making process. Mono bath B&W processing has zero appeal due to the limited film developer choices and their results. For volume film processing, Jobo works good. Having several sheet film tanks speeds up and eases the sheet film processing task. Load them all up with sheet film, then run them one after the other. There was a time when 35mm E6 film would be purchased by the 100 rolls per purchase. This was followed by acquiring Jobo tanks and reels that would hold about 12 rolls of 35mm per processing cycle. Two of these tanks would easily do 24 rolls of 35mm film in two runs. BTW, none of this E6 Jobo processing was serious or for being paid as the colors and etc from this kind of E6 processing was as good as E6 processing from The New Lab.. where the being paid stuff was done.
The whole PS/LR software image making process has about nil appeal to me. Film scans are done only to share via data transmission. Color is digital only these days. Film is for traditional B&W silver gelatin prints... which is why sheet film continues on to this day.
Bernice
It sounds like the problem is that you've taken a digital mindset to film. 45 rolls of film in 2 weeks means hundreds to thousands of photos, and that's a digital mindset. It's the kill them all now and sort it out later approach.
If you knew you had really great photos on a roll, there would be no problem developing that roll since the excitement would be overwhelming. If you didn't have that excitement to develop the roll, it's almost certainly because you weren't expecting anything spectacular from it. At that point it really does become a chore.
As paulbarden noted, if you're shooting film, try to limit the shots to something you've already pre-visualized as being great. That will almost certainly result in very few pictures, if any. Large format is suited well to this approach, but it doesn't suit every type of subject matter or style.
Beg to disagree here, I don't "spray and pray" with digital or film.
The last project was a long one and fully deserving of the multiple rolls of film I gave it.
Yes, there were plenty of duds, but there's no digital mindset at play.
Bernice Loui
18-Nov-2021, 12:12
Any Photographer that has done 8x10 for a significant duration of time and image making would have lost any hint of "Spray & Pray".. The two mind-sets are not agreeable at all.
Bernice
Beg to disagree here, I don't "spray and pray" with digital or film.
The last project was a long one and fully deserving of the multiple rolls of film I gave it.
Yes, there were plenty of duds, but there's no digital mindset at play.
Ben Calwell
18-Nov-2021, 12:29
I actually like developing sheet film. As someone else said, it’s a zen experience for me. I tray develop in total darkness. I used to play Gregorian chants while processing, but gave that up. Now it’s total silence, except when my neurotic dog starts barking upstairs.
paulbarden
18-Nov-2021, 14:00
I actually like developing sheet film. As someone else said, it’s a zen experience for me. I tray develop in total darkness. I used to play Gregorian chants while processing, but gave that up. Now it’s total silence, except when my neurotic dog starts barking upstairs.
That's pretty much my experience too. I enjoy my time in the darkroom, processing sheets of 5x7 and 8x10. It can be a very pleasant way to spend a couple hours, IMO.
Tin Can
18-Nov-2021, 14:29
When I bought a new Nikon N70 (https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/filmcamera/slr/f70_f70d/index.htm) with power advance and AUTO focus and exposure and flash
Wow, what an upgrade 'sorta' from Pentax H1
I wandered crowds, shooting one handed over my head
I was happy with 1 keeper out 38 exposures
Still got the NIKON, now they sell for $5 with a lens
I burned through rolls, had Slide film processed at HELIX, B&W I did myself
Now I can't do that even with Digi, I hand load 12 film exposures and that takes forever...to use up
Time is not on our side
Beg to disagree here, I don't "spray and pray" with digital or film.
The last project was a long one and fully deserving of the multiple rolls of film I gave it.
Yes, there were plenty of duds, but there's no digital mindset at play.
ic-racer
18-Nov-2021, 16:22
Oh boy, the drudgery of darkroom work...I agree...reminds me of when I spent hours and hours doing old-fashioned brush paint work. Until I found something easier...now I can complete a painting in a day!
221400
Kiwi7475
18-Nov-2021, 17:23
I think you can modulate your analog/digital load depending on the amount of work you want.
If you’re going to shoot 45 rolls for a project, maybe go digital for that one. If another one is likely only a handful then let that one be film.
You have both tools, find your balance.
Also don’t consider sending film to a lab as a waste of money or just something you don’t want to outsource just because you can do it yourself. You want your time for something else, you can “buy it back”.
So nobody tried Cinestill DF 96 so far?
So nobody tried Cinestill DF 96 so far?
Good question, and the impetus for this thread.
I'm waiting for some to arrive. Shoulda been today, but delays, delays, delays.
I might try it with 8x10 first!
Arpeggio Verdelac
28-Nov-2021, 07:06
I have some Cine e-6 Dynamic. Grabbed a used 500C two weeks ago and the deal included a bunch of non expired E-100. Hopefully, I process today.
One caveat, I have never processed E-6. Any results may not be accurate.
Have a great day everyone.
Currently sitting on about 100 sheets of undeveloped film, I can relate.
same here Ari, not biggest fan of processing film but has to be done. also prefer to save $$ if I can, vs sending everything out to a lab, and Toronto Image Works has stopped processing film so there's that too.
Mitchellsig
4-Jul-2022, 05:50
I use CineStill DF96 monobath for 120 film. it has worked very well! I have not developed film for many years (about 48 years). this time I started DF96 mono and I am very happy with the results. I have been using the constant agitation method starting at 3 minutes + 15 seconds for each additional roll of film per batch of DF96. My next project is using DF96 mono for developing 4x5 film in a tank.
Michael Wellman
4-Jul-2022, 06:51
I bought some a year or two ago. Tried it for my 35mm and 4x5. It was simple and easy to use but I found it too grainy and high contrast for me but maybe if that is the look you are going for it would be nice. Certainly it's a nice introduction for newbies to start to develop their own film but it's not for me.
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