Headless LF Enlargers Rise UP!.....................LED

[Tin Can]

The Great Waste Destruction Enlarger Purge is near complete. Started 2001, new infidels seeking stranglers under wicked DAYLIGHT!

I first noticed these crimes the day I joined here

Many Machines are HEADLESS, I bought what I could, accused here as HOARDER, the shame...

We need low cost 4X5, 5X7, 8X10 and 11X14 LED heads

We also need radical new enlargers of simple design

Headless enlargers awake and work once more!

Rise UP proudly

[koraks]

The problem with designing a head isn't really the light source. So many options, most of them achievable at low cost, and often with DIY-friendly components.
The real issue is the negative and lens stages - ensuring perfect alignment of lens and negative (with the base board as well), a negative stage that actually accomplishes (again in perfect alignment) good flatness as well as dealing with threats such as dust and newton rings (good luck getting your hands on affordable AN glass!), a solid & precise but DIY-friendly/simple focus mechanism...

The electronics are trivial. The mechanics are the actual challenge.

[BLATT LAB]

Maybe Intrepid will finally bring a 8x10 version of their enlarger head at some point. As long as it has a good negative carrier it will probably be decent for building it in a self-made 8x10 enlarger setup. I would also expect it to be at a decent price.

[Tin Can]

I have 3 headless 10X10

4X5

https://silvergrainclassics.com/en/2020/12/buying-an-enlarger-new-or-second-hand/

[John Layton]

I've always thought it would be amazing to have an enlarger so simple, yet so rugged and precise...that there would be no "corrective" adjustments possible - just a rock solid baseboard, with a forged metal framework integrated into a forged column, with a simple yet rugged frame running on precise focus tracks (with both coarse and fine focus) - with two sheets of heavy optical glass for the negative carrier resting atop the frame...with a second frame, above and integral to the first, which would accept whatever light source you might want to place on top of it.

Again...no planarity/parallelism adjustments possible - just so precise from the factory, and so ruggedly built, that it would always be perfect.

[koraks]

Yeah John, the design doesn't have to be complicated for it to be good. However, coming up with a really good and yet simple design can be a...complicated effort! Especially if it also needs to be manufactured easily and at acceptable cost.

Re:the intrepid contraption: sorry, but no. That's a toy. Way too flimsy, lacking in usability...it's a nice feature of a camera that it works of sorts as an enlarger, but that doesn't make it a good enlarger yet.

[Tin Can]

FOTAR and De Vere

[Drew Wiley]

Just expose your negatives with a Headless Horseman camera, and everything will match. On a more serious note, LED heads are likely to be far more realistic at this stage of technology for black and white VC printing than actual color printing. Tried and true halogen colorheads still make a lot more sense in the latter case. And the simple fact is, reliable LED pancake heads and "simple/affordable" seem to be antonyms. But if one is an experimenter type with decent shop skills and sufficient patience, you could build your own. But the biggest problem everyone chiming in on this thread so far probably has is just too many enlargers already. Decapitation might just be a self-destructive default to acquiring and storing still more. It's a nasty addiction.

[John Layton]

...yep - heads will roll for sure! :eek:

[Mark Sampson]

John, I used 10x10 Fotars for many years. They were built like bridges and did not need adjustment... but the adjustments were there if needed; mostly during original setup. And they were set up properly by professionals, who PM'ed them twice yearly as as I recall. The Omega color heads needed attention now and then, but the chassis were built to last a hundred years. Such were the advantages of working for a company the size (then) of Eastman Kodak!

[Tin Can]

OK, collectors collect as I have said many times

I started very young. maybe age 3

Over the last 7 decades my collections have varied

I also collected very diverse friends, so diverse a party at my first house 1981 kinda flopped, as many actively hated each other

My first wife was upset I was giving away too much booze...

I lost 2 wives I collected

Solo since 1996

I have 5, 35mm enlargers

2, medium format

4, 4X5

2, 5x7

4, 10X10

I have 6 setup and usable in my DR

4, 35mm are kitchen decoration with my 3 Tube Radio collection

I have 8 bicycles, 1 adult tricycle and a wheelchair

NO CAR! YAY!

[Tin Can]

I forgot

I have given away 8 enlargers, including an 8X10

All those were not used by recipients

I regret the one 4X5 I gave to a member, wasted

[Michael R]

Why do you want all of those enlargers though? I mean, four 10x10 enlargers?

[Tin Can]

Do I really need a reason?

Nobody asks why people have 4 cars

At that time, 2011 people were throwing them out as garbage

I took them to save them a generation or 2

Most were free as they were going to the dump

The FOTAR cost me $250, I made money selling that one 5 years ago and gave the guy a huge NOS Print Dryer, I also got for free

I broke even on my 10' SS Arkay sink and gave a smaller one away

I now use my 7 ft Arkay with 2 laundry tubs

Is the inquisition over?

Let he who has no sin cast the first stone, said somebody...


Why do you want all of those enlargers though? I mean, four 10x10 enlargers?

[Michael R]

Yeesh it was a question, not a stoning lol.


Do I really need a reason?

Nobody asks why people have 4 cars

At that time, 2011 people were throwing them out as garbage

I took them to save them a generation or 2

Most were free as they were going to the dump

The FOTAR cost me $250, I made money selling that one 5 years ago and gave the guy a huge NOS Print Dryer, I also got for free

I broke even on my 10' SS Arkay sink and gave a smaller one away

I now use my 7 ft Arkay with 2 laundry tubs

Is the inquisition over?

Let he who has no sin cast the first stone, said somebody...

[Tin Can]

I have been 'stoned' here before




Yeesh it was a question, not a stoning lol.

[Michael R]

Fair point.


I have been 'stoned' here before

[John Layton]

Gee...I used to collect potato ricers. Probably had fifty at one point! Just don't ask me why...(childhood-related nostalgia actually).

I've also been stoned here before - mostly after 5pm and, these days, mostly with a bit of bourbon (neat...with no rocks, thrown or otherwise!)

Actually, there is tremendous virtue in hoarding enlargers...in that this helps them to avoid the scrap heap. We should all be doing this!

If I were wealthy I'd keep rescuing and rebuilding old Porsche 944's - wonderful, practical, versatile cars terribly underrated as most of them have been egregiously neglected. Sad.

[ic-racer]

I have 3 headless 10X10

4X5

https://silvergrainclassics.com/en/2020/12/buying-an-enlarger-new-or-second-hand/

As an enlarger fanatic myself, I follow Tin Can's threads, but I thought Tin Can had already figured out a good LED source with a LED panel. Is that not working out?

[Tin Can]

I am using Aristo 1212 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/119739-REG/Aristo_1212_C_V54_110V_1212_Cold_Light_Head.html) right now

I have only one 10X10 setup


As an enlarger fanatic myself, I follow Tin Can's threads, but I thought Tin Can had already figured out a good LED source with a LED panel. Is that not working out?

[Paul Ron]

maybe since so many people are using leds n other newer heads, the originals are in landfills? hahaha did i miss the point again?

[Tin Can]

No, I think a lot of heads were sold off the top of enlargers

because I saw so many headless

The FOTAR was sold to me headless all accessories gone from a very nice basement in a big Midwest camera store

They were converting to big Digi printers

It was just North of the Elwood factory, long gone

[Luis-F-S]

Or the heads died due to 1970's electronics. The chasis typically outlast the heads!

[Dugan]

Many headless enlarger chassis can be converted to copy stands.

[Tin Can]

I use a tall Arkay Studio Stand for that, Digi, easier to get 360 light

I had a 5 year career Digi copying color pencil drawings

and made him a couple books from the copies

I did it too cheap, but I don't want a Biz ever

The kicker is the drawings look digital but this guy did them by hand, to relax!

He sells them easily at $1000 unframed

[LabRat]

The chassis is the hard part, heavy and exact...

Many new options for light panels for today!!!

Steve K

[Tin Can]

For copy I use 2 cross strobe ceiling bounce

a big bounce card on pipe side and a third strobe with softbox on side 4

A 12 x 12 foot copy area

Light meter, then a target sample image

When thee artiste' shows up we do one a minute, 30 minutes and he is gone with his art

He is so manic, he makes me look asleep, LOL

We talk very fast updating, no stopping


The chassis is the hard part, heavy and exact...

Many new options for light panels for today!!!

Steve K

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I have three 8X10 enlargers, plus a 5X7, all with heads; and there is a functional reason for every one of them. I do use em all. But I've turned down at least twenty other commercial enlargers, all with heads too. No place to put em; and I don't want to be an enlarger dealer, nor want to rent a big storage space for something I don't personally use. Old electronics are no big deal; these things can be rewired, often completely bypassing all the fussy redundant bells n whistles.

But I did run out of room for my big old copy stand, so tweaked my Durst 184 with copy lights and a camera mount which slips right in where the lens turret disc normally fits. In other words, in just a few minutes I can convert it from a fully functioning color enlarger into a deluxe copy stand, or visa versa. The enlarger retains its head the whole time, and is not even involved copying. No need to borrow the axe man from the Tower of London, or that cute toy Robespierre set up across the Channel. I heard there were entire wagonloads of enlarger heads in Paris at that time.

[John Layton]

RE my previous post about a hypothetical enlarger so rugged and precise that it would be "perfect," with no re-calibration possible - I actually had something close to this with Nikon Multiphot. Had the complete system...multiple backs, light sources, etc. Oh...and all of the lenses!

Horrible to think that I'd rescued this (no charge to me as long as I hauled it all away) from a local medical school that was about to junk the entire thing! And sad to think that my own circumstances about fifteen years back did not allow me to hang on to it.

While the Multiphot may not have allowed the kind of extensions typical of the better purpose-built enlargers (Durst, DeVere, Etc.) - I'm sure it would still have done an admirable job.

[Tin Can]

PBS, just watched how Stonehenge was moved

Seems humans have always recycled

During war we melt down old swords, plows, cars, trucks to make weapons

I did hear of people selling big enlargers for scrap

Bugatti engines were repurposed to rail

However Bugatti buried a few engine to save them from his enemy

Then dug them up, aging metal by burial is called 'curing' restorers prize them as better for it

[Michael R]

I’ve often imagined the same - a “perfect”, simple device with nothing to go out of alignment ever. It’s fun to dream things up.

While not anything like the simple design we envision, this crazy Heiland 20x24 horizontal enlarger positions and aligns itself automatically using lasers and motors :D. Ok, ok, alignment with the screen is to within +/-1mm so far from perfect and nowhere good enough for Drew, but anyway.

https://heilandelectronic.de/enlarger/lang:en



RE my previous post about a hypothetical enlarger so rugged and precise that it would be "perfect," with no re-calibration possible - I actually had something close to this with Nikon Multiphot. Had the complete system...multiple backs, light sources, etc. Oh...and all of the lenses!

Horrible to think that I'd rescued this (no charge to me as long as I hauled it all away) from a local medical school that was about to junk the entire thing! And sad to think that my own circumstances about fifteen years back did not allow me to hang on to it.

While the Multiphot may not have allowed the kind of extensions typical of the better purpose-built enlargers (Durst, DeVere, Etc.) - I'm sure it would still have done an admirable job.

[Tin Can]

Very much like my desire for LF autofocus studio camera

Hobbyist gear is ready for tinker

It can be done for less

[Drew Wiley]

Never say never, Michael. But there are already enlarger chassis very resistant to ever getting out of alignment, but with the provision that if they ever do, they can be fine-tuned again. My Durst L184 chassis is like that, even more, my massive home built 8x10 machine. We had a pretty good earthquake jolt a couple days ago. Or look at the post and lintel Stonehenge design; who would have guessed they had enlargers back then? Just stick a big condenser lens between one of those gaps on a solstice, wrap the rest of the stone ring with opaque ox hides, plus a lightproof roof of course, and there you go. But even some of those stones fell. They should have bought a Durst to begin with.

[Paul Ron]

ah that's the key Drew, to be able to fine tune accurately. the more accurate the tuning mechanisms are, the better quality in build. now we are nearing perfection!

[Luis-F-S]

My lab several years ago gave away several DeVere enlarger chassis. The bench Devere 4x5 had a closed loop head as did did the standing 8x10 chassis that I took. Another 4x5 and the 8x10 chassis wrtr headless as they were using it as a copy camera. I also took an extra 4x5 closed loop head with control box and a couple of ZBE controllers. Gave one to a fellow in Canada when his died.

Wouldn't mind setting up the second 8x10 chasis with an LED 8x10 head if one were available reasonably. The 5108 that I use has a manual dichroic head which is what I use for B&W printing. Have over 100 spare bulbs for when they burn out! Bought them NOS by the case at auction.

Most (4) were saved and only one 4x5 went to the trash bin!

[Drew Wiley]

Closed-loop feedback is nice for consistency, especially when printing color, but also a feature potentially sensitive to electronics foibles. My primary enlargers have it; my backup ones do not. That keeps me going even if there's an occasional maintenance issue.

[MrFujicaman]

Why did an image of a headless enlarger riding a black fire breathing horse come to mind when I saw this thread ?

[MartinP]

Why did an image of a headless enlarger riding a black fire breathing horse come to mind when I saw this thread ?

It might only be paper-safe if the horse burns sodium, or could be modified to do so. Darkroom heating could also be solved in this way . . . Are these black, fire-breathing horses available second-hand ???

[Tin Can]

How many are enlarging color?

Not I

[koraks]

How many are enlarging color?

Not I

I am. Many other are, too. Perhaps not in the LF scene, but over at Photrio there's a pretty active interest in optical RA4 printing.

[Tin Can]

I could, but won't with my LEICA FOCOMAT V-35 ENLARGER (http://www.photographyreview.com/product/darkroom/enlargers/leica/focomat-v-35.html)

[Michael R]

I could, but won't with my LEICA FOCOMAT V-35 ENLARGER (http://www.photographyreview.com/product/darkroom/enlargers/leica/focomat-v-35.html)

I think the point is simply that it can be done if required or desired. If you’ve already got properly functioning incandescent heads there’s no need for make-work projects unless you are so inclined.

[Tin Can]

This thread is about 10X10 enlargers without heads




I think the point is simply that it can be done if required or desired. If you’ve already got properly functioning incandescent heads there’s no need for make-work projects unless you are so inclined.

[koraks]

I thought this thread was about random non-sequiturs loosely related to enlargers.

[Tin Can]

At least we are not discussing cars again


I thought this thread was about random non-sequiturs loosely related to enlargers.

[koraks]

No worries, you'll rarely catch me on that. As well as dogs.

[Drew Wiley]

I'm gearing up to do large color prints again next Spring. It might take a few months to get the specific color paper roll I ordered anyway. Just hope it doesn't arrive around Holiday season when so many parcel carriers are careless temps.

[esearing]

My crazy mind at work again... If you put UV lamp as the light source on a 4x5 enlarger, could you then make enlarged salt prints or other alternative POP process? Or build a dark box below the lens and use the enlarger outdoors, sun powered?

[j.e.simmons]

I tried putting a uv bulb in my enlarger to expose a salt printing. Left it on for several hours. Nothing. Whether it was a lack of light or uv blocking by the lens, I don’t know. The idea of multiple led uv bulbs in a box like a color head in intriguing.

[Tin Can]

Sandy King found an alt print solution, Everbeam 365nm 100W UV LED, I am almost ready with my system using multiple 50 watt 365 Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Everbeam-Black-Light-Flood-365nm/dp/B0863HD955?ref_=ast_sto_dp)


I tried putting a uv bulb in my enlarger to expose a salt printing. Left it on for several hours. Nothing. Whether it was a lack of light or uv blocking by the lens, I don’t know. The idea of multiple led uv bulbs in a box like a color head in intriguing.

[koraks]

My crazy mind at work again... If you put UV lamp as the light source on a 4x5 enlarger, could you then make enlarged salt prints or other alternative POP process?
Yes, sort of. There are many caveats. But the principle does work. See here for extensive discussion, experiments and proofs of concept: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/making-an-uv-enlarger.92824/

Long story short: it takes a *LOT* of power, but it does indeed work.

[j.e.simmons]

That light recommended by Sandy is a floodlight. I hadn’t thought of making an enlarger head using it, but it would probably be fairly simple to make something, stick it on my Beseler 45 and try it out.

[Tin Can]

Use an old KODAK enlarger lens

[j.e.simmons]

Why Kodak?

[Luis-F-S]

Why Kodak?

cheap and decent

[j.e.simmons]

I’ve got enlarger lenses from Kodak, Wollensak, Rodenstock, etc. Can’t get cheaper than what you already have.

[Tin Can]

I read this week no coatings and old glass pass more UV

Hearsay

[j.e.simmons]

I’ve heard that, too.