Development time for paper.

[Grandpa Ron]

It has been a while since I have printed any film. As I recall the last time, I tried burning through a lot of time and paper trying to determine the correct exposure/ print development time.

I have search the web and some older photography books and the time for developing paper seems to be between 1 1/2 minutes to 3 minutes.

So to prevent as lot of tail chasing, I would like some opinions.

I prefer to mix as I go, so I have new bottles of Arista film developer and Fixer concentrate and an older bottle of indicator Stop bath concentrate. I am working with Arista 5x7 Grade 3 and VC glossy resin coated paper. I can hold the chemical temperatures between 68 and 72 degrees.

* My plan is to mix a quart of each solution in 8x10 trays.
* Keep my paper development time between 1 1/2 and 1 3/4 minutes.
* Adjust only the enlarger time, using time exposure test strips as references.

I believe this is a good starting point, but I am open to suggestions.

Thanks

[Huub]

I have my doubts if film developer will work well for developing paper, as it paper developer should be much more active then film developer. Do yourself a favour and get a bottle of paper developer. They come in a few tastes: cold tone, neutral and warm tone developer. The choice has some influence on the tone of the emulsion, not on the paper base. The exact effect depending on the paper you use.

Developing VC paper means developing to completion. How long that takes will depend on temperature, dillution, your paper and the choice of developer, but it is easy to check.

Make a few test strips of the paper of choice, using a negative with good shadow detail. Expose 4 test strips of the same shadows area with a time that gives you a fairly decent print. Develop the first strip for 1 minute, the second for 1.5 minutes, the third for 2 minutes and the fourth for 3 minutes. Fix, rinse and dry and check in the light in which you are going the view your prints. Choose the one with the best shadows: it should give a good black, but also plenty of detail. You can use that development time for all your prints.

[Tin Can]

Use a safelight for printing, watch the development

I sometimes use Ilford PQ as it was designed to be Universal developer, film or paper

Dilutions are varied

Don't use very old chems, mix Vitamin C powder for stop, a tablespoon mixes quickly in tray, then down the drain. I buy cheap food grade

[esearing]

Paper is generally developed to completion when using a paper developer. When I was a newbie the instructor taught us to use 90-30-60 seconds for dev-stop-fix times with 15 second drip times in between. However I find on Fiber paper and the Ansco/PF 130 developer I use I like dev time at a minimum of 2:00 minutes. Ethol LPD I use very dilute and let it run to 4 mins on warm tone paper.

You can test full development time by creating a simple test sheet of different exposure stripes of different white>gray>black tones. Then cut the test sheet into strips and develop each one for different times. IE 1:30, 2:00, 3:00 , stop, fix, and wash, but evaluate when dry.
RC paper will develop faster than Fiber usually.

[Joe O'Hara]

Agreed that film developer is generally not suitable for paper. In any event, it will die quickly in the tray and give inconsistent results.

I develop all my prints for 3 minutes using a D-72 variant at 1:1 dilution (Ilford MG FB Warmtone mostly). I see practically no change in the prints extending the time
to 5 minutes. People who like glycin-based developers (e.g. Ansco 130 type) often recommend longer times. I never saw any difference in prints or step
wedge tests between glycin-based developers and D-72, so I stopped using them, but as usual YMMV.

It is always a bad idea to yank a print from the developer if it looks like it's getting too dark. That just means it's overexposed, so try again. Pick a developing
time (the manufacturer's instructions are a good starting point) and stick to it. Adjust density and contrast in the enlarger.

Some people move a print into a water bath and let it sit there after the image is mostly developed. It is reasonable to think that this will affect the response of
the paper in some way, perhaps one that you like. I personally have never tried this. I suppose you'd want to use fresh water for every print, because after one use
it's not all water any more.

[paulbarden]

The Arista papers come with instructions, which state: "Arista.EDU® Ultra VC RC can be processed in any standard black and white photographic paper developer (emphasis mine). Generally development of 60 - 90 seconds at 68 ̊F/20 ̊C should be required. The developer manufacturer’s recommendations should be followed."

RC (resin coated) papers all pretty much process in the same way; 60-90 seconds in the developer and then a stop and fix of 60 seconds in any rapid fixer. Don't waste your time, money and resources trying to make prints using FILM developer. Its not made for that. Its made to spend a much longer time in contact with film to develop it slowly and allow density to build gradually. A print developer is meant to act in seconds.

And I would also point out that unless your 8x10 trays are four inches deep (or more), you won't get a quart of chemistry into them without overfilling.

[neil poulsen]

I would never use a film developer for paper; why take the edge off your results? The only advantage I can think of in using one developer is convenience, and that would be taking convenience too far. Nor do I think there would be much of any savings involved.

In workshops I've taken, the recommendation for fiber paper has been 2 minutes in Dektol 1:1 at 68 or 70 degrees. That said, an early workshop I took during the 70's recommended 3 minutes in Dektol 1:1 at 68 or 70 degrees for fiber. That's what I've always used (at 70 degrees), to make sure that the print has been fully developed.

Whatever you decide, never vary the developing time . . . always be consistent. I have two viewing lights that I use: one adjusted for wet prints and one adjusted for completed dry prints. Using controlled viewing lights is the only way that one can effectively make and retain in subsequent prints, subtle changes in exposure time (to darken or lighten print), in burning, or in dodging.

[Doremus Scudder]

Don't use film developer for prints. I doesn't work well and it just wastes money. Save it for film and buy some print developer.

Be aware that RC papers have a different (shorter) developing time than fiber-base papers. Minimum developing time for most RC papers in most developers is one minute. Err on the side of longer, not shorter. Standardizing on 90 seconds would be my recommendation.

For fiber-base papers, two minutes is the lower limit. I develop all my prints on fiber-base for 2 min. 30 seconds as a standard, deviating from that only for a specific reason.

If you keep development time adequately long and always the same, then you simply make whatever adjustments you need with exposure time. Being consistent with developing time saves time and money.

If you change contrast settings by more that a half-grade for a second print, it's a good idea to run a new test strip to find a starting exposure time (even with the Ilford "speed-matched" filters, you'll find that exposure time varies quite a bit with changes in contrast unless you just happen to be basing your print exposure on the middle grey that Ilford matched their speeds to...).

Evaluating the prints is an art in itself. Having the right brightness light for viewing is important. Be aware of dry down and either compensate for it or dry your prints to evaluate them (this is what I do).

Best,

Doremus

[jnantz]

HI Grandpa Ron

With a lot of RC papers you know your exposure time is pretty close when the image begins to appear at about 20 seconds.
Have fun!
John

[Jim Noel]

Film developers are far too inactive for papers. One can develop film in paper developers, but not the reverse.

[Joe O'Hara]

Doremus said: "Evaluating the prints is an art in itself." So true!

The right viewing light for wet (damp) prints is very important. If it is way too bright (or is fluorescent), your prints will probably look dull when viewed in your regular display conditions. I make it a practice to carefully mop the surface of the print with a cellulose sponge (reserved for this purpose, it must not be considered clean for washed prints) to get all of the surface water off before evaluating them.

Then the experience part kicks in. Michael Smith (whom I respected as a technical expert in his process which was Lodima chloride paper and amidol) swore that "dry-down" is a myth. However that may be, in my experience, using Ilford MG FB products, highlight tone seems to magically appear when the print is dry that appears blown-out when wet. (I notice little change in the low values). So I just adjust exposure and contrast to get the highlights just "blown" by appearance when wet, and when dry, there they are.

There's a real craft to this, and there's no getting around it, and expending many boxes of paper in the process.

[Grandpa Ron]

Sorry for the confusion, it was a typo error, I am using Arista Paper developer. and mixing the Arista fixer to the recommended paper fixing ratio.

The paper developer has a 1:9 ratio so I am using, 3 oz of developer to 27 oz of water for a total of 30 oz solution.

Judging when to move the print from developer to stop seems to be the initial challenge.

[david@bigeleisenlaw.com]

I keep the paper in the developer for 1 minute and 45 seconds. I pull it out with bamboo tongs and let it drain for 15 seconds. Then i put it in the stop bathe for about half a minute. Drain again for about 15 seconds and the fix according to manufacturer's instructions. Works fine. Don't worry too much, just do.

David

[Jim Noel]

Most papers come with minimal instructions concerning development times. RC papers are generally one minute.
Fiber papers are generally between 2 and 3 minutes. 3 minutes is my personal choice and i never use RC papers.

[Rick A]

Sorry for the confusion, it was a typo error, I am using Arista Paper developer. and mixing the Arista fixer to the recommended paper fixing ratio.

The paper developer has a 1:9 ratio so I am using, 3 oz of developer to 27 oz of water for a total of 30 oz solution.

Judging when to move the print from developer to stop seems to be the initial challenge.

You really need to do your own testing to see what works best for you. That being said, For RC paper, I have fixed my developing time to two minutes total(actual develop+drain time)then into the stop (10secs for RC) then fix as per manufacturer instructions. You need to keep the process time consistent and vary print exposure (time under enlarger or contact frame) to suit The trick is to find in camera exposure that matches your process and a fairly consistent print exposure time. FB papers respond slightly different than RC, again, run tests to determine YOUR personal preference.

[Ben Calwell]

When it comes to development time, I just follow the recommendations of the paper manufacturers.

[Doremus Scudder]

... Judging when to move the print from developer to stop seems to be the initial challenge.

Don't judge. Standardize on the recommended time for your developer and paper type (RC or fiber base). You can use a bit longer time as your standard, but going shorter than recommended times is not a good idea as the print will not have time to develop its maximum black and full contrast range.

RC print-developing times range from 1-2 minutes depending on developer. Recommended developing times for fiber base paper are longer, usually in the 1.5-3 minute range, again, depending on developer used.

Check out the Ilford tech sheets for their papers and compare the processing times for RC and fiber-base papers and the various developers they list (yes, they are all Ilford products, but it will give you a general idea).

Short version: read the label on your developer and use the time recommended for your paper type. If you're using Arista Liquid Paper Developer, the directions clearly state: "Processing Times: RC Papers: 1-2 minutes. Fiber-based Papers: 2 minutes." I'd choose either 2 minutes for RC papers, or at least 90 seconds and then standardize on that. Don't deviate from that time without a good reason.

No brainer, really.

Doremus

[Andrew O'Neill]

For fibre based papers, such as Ilford MG, I always developed for 2 minutes in conventional paper developers.

[MartinP]

I am curious to know why the instructions from the chemical and paper manufacturers are thought to be incorrect by the OP ?

EDIT: That reads to be a bit rude. What I mean is that you have chosen decent 'cheap-and-cheerful' materials which have a very wide 'sweet spot'. You probably won't get something that could hang in a museum for the next century, but you can easily have something that will hang on your living room wall. Just follow the times in the instructions that match the products and it will be fine. I'd only add that you could try changing the light-source using filters, or a colour-head, with the variable contrast paper -- start out at grade two and play around from there. Good luck! :)

[Huub]

I fully agree with following the instructions on the manual, but as i have written before, it is easy enough to development time yourself. Just make 4 test strips of a good shadow area and develop them at different times. Do that one time for a given paper and developer combination and you're set.

[Tin Can]

I reuse Ilford PQ until it slows

I mix 2 gallons and keep it in a floating lid poly tank with hand spigot

Same with TF5

I time stop, fix, wash

but eyeball paper development as taught