Long exposure with light camera

[rpagliari]

Hello,
I'm interested about the 4x5 by Intrepid, but I often do long exposures (5 to 8 mins).
I thought the camera might be too light and not stable enough for it. I've used a Toyo 45A before, and never had an issue.

Does anyone have experience with the Intrepid?

[Drew Wiley]

It all relative to the mass and stability to what's under it. A good solid tripod support is important. Lighter camera sometimes need heavier tripods to do the same job well. But if you need to save carry weight with respect to the tripod itself, bring along a mesh bag you can put rocks in, and suspend from a hook beneath the tripod head. If using a tripod head, make sure it is solid and vibration-free too. Then, of course, you're going to have more of an issue with longer lenses and bellows extensions than shorter ones. The solidity of the ground beneath is an issue, and whether there is wind of not. You know doubt already know much of this. But going lightweight camera-wise always makes it trickier.

[Bernice Loui]

So much marketing fashion and want to believe the lowest weight field foldable view camera is best, then results in the need for a weightier tripod or camera support to help stabilize the lowest weight camera...

Overly focused in a single aspect of a much more complex system required to create GOOD view camera images.


Bernice

[r.e.]

There's a good deal of discussion about the Intrepid, including posts by an owner, in this recent thread: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?165743-Inexpensive-4x5-field-cameras

[Doremus Scudder]

I don't know about the Intrepid, but I manage sharp long exposures on a number of lightweight cameras (Wista DX, approx. 3 lbs, Horseman Woodman, less than 3 lbs, Wista SW, slightly more than 3lbs). And, I use a pretty lightweight tripod in the field as well.

For me, a good tripod head that locks securely is more important than the weight of the tripod itself. Cheap heads have a lot of play/spring in them, which tends to amplify instead of dampen vibrations, and there's nothing more frustrating than having your carefully-chosen camera position slip because of a head that won't lock securely. The same with focus locks on your camera if you are pointing it down. And then there's film movement; tapping the holder a time or two to get the film seated at the bottom of the holder in whatever orientation you are using solves this pretty well.

If the camera (and the subject) isn't moving, the images will be sharp. Identifying and avoiding causes of camera movement is the trick. The bag of rocks Drew refers to is good for dealing with wind-caused camera shake. Avoiding vibrations from traffic (and even your own walking around), not to mention shock waves from big rigs driving by can be a problem when set up next to roads or streets. Waiting for lulls in the traffic works as does dividing a long exposure into smaller increments. Sometimes I'll turn a five-minute exposure into six or seven 20-30 second exposures (or even shorter) to make sure the shutter is open when the camera is still and closed when it's not. A good cable release or a deft hand with the lens cap is important with this technique. In windy situations, setting up in a sheltered place or using a wind block can be really helpful. I've used a small umbrella to block wind several times with good results. Sometimes releasing the shutter can cause a bit of movement. In this case, making a longer exposure can actually be helpful; the bit of movement you get releasing the shutter or removing the lens cap becomes an insignificantly small fraction of the total exposure.

Set up carefully, lock things down well, don't kick your tripod during exposures, watch out for vibrations and deal with them and you should be fine.

Best,

Doremus

[Mark Sampson]

Long before I knew that it wasn't possible, I made successful pictures with exposures several minutes long- using a 3.5lb 4x5 camera and an inadequate tripod. (And for that matter, a lens not designed for the format.)
As so often, Doremus' advice is good. And an umbrella to is a useful tool as a shield from the wind, if there is any.

[r.e.]

I appear to be in a minority on this, but I've never owned a tripod with a centre column and I figure that mounting a large format camera on a raised centre column is just asking for trouble :)

[RandyB]

I appear to be in a minority on this, but I've never owned a tripod with a centre column and I figure that mounting a large format camera on a raised centre column is just asking for trouble :)

It depends on how high you raise the camera, 1,2,3 inches won't create much vibration but fully expending the post will act like a flag in the wind. To me, it is much better to have an oversized heavyish tripod that allows for the height needed without using the center column. Using a weight, e.i. bag-o-rocks, gear bag on the bottom of the column is great unless it starts swinging in the wind. Needless to say if the wind is strong enough to swing the weight it might be very difficult to get a sharp exposure.

[Tin Can]

I add weight to my way too light Wanderlust

by using heavy Horseman QR as base too, posted yesterday here

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?165598-Camera-ARE-Box

[Corran]

There are no issues with long exposures on an Intrepid compared to any camera, assuming a reasonable tripod or low wind.

[Bernice Loui]

Depends lots on the center column design, not just how much the center column is raised/extended.

Typically, Foto tripods have flimsy center column designs (have a geared Gitzo center column, it is NOT as rigid/stable as believed) that are not stable/rigid. The better Foto tripods do tend to have improved center column designs yet they are still prone to instability and all that.

In the world of surveyor (Transit) , serious film making (Panavision, Arri, Red and...), Video tripods do NOT have a center column. More often they have a ball-bowl or very stable tilt mechanism. Adjust the legs as needed, level the tripod as needed, that variable center column was intended as a convenience feature, not a rigidity_stability feature. If the bag-O-stone to stabilize the tripod is applied, the tripod must be sufficient to support camera and bag-O-stones.. or not so lightweight tripod.

In all cases, mass = stability and that mass must come from some where, be it the camera, tripod or a bag or stones hanging from the tripod center or similar. Again, this is where focusing as the camera must be "lightweight" often ignores the overall demands of good image making.


Bernice


It depends on how high you raise the camera, 1,2,3 inches won't create much vibration but fully expending the post will act like a flag in the wind. To me, it is much better to have an oversized heavyish tripod that allows for the height needed without using the center column. Using a weight, e.i. bag-o-rocks, gear bag on the bottom of the column is great unless it starts swinging in the wind. Needless to say if the wind is strong enough to swing the weight it might be very difficult to get a sharp exposure.

[Tin Can]

I like to carry a Manfrotto 209 Tabletop Tripod to use on rocks, picnic tables...

My tiny point and shoot 4X5, I have 4

Entire kit, tripod, camera, film holders fit in a lunch bag

with lunch

[John Layton]

Ha! Years ago I conducted a number of artist residencies in Vermont, under the auspices of the NEA and Vermont Arts Council. Most of these involved 35mm film cameras and darkroom work - but at one point I'd offered a one-day pinhole camera workshop for a class of fifth graders, during a blizzard! Yep...everyone freezing, teeth chattering - while doing their best to hold their little cardboard cameras still. A few of these cameras actually blew away! Oh...the horror!

[Tin Can]

not LOL


Ha! Years ago I conducted a number of artist residencies in Vermont, under the auspices of the NEA and Vermont Arts Council. Most of these involved 35mm film cameras and darkroom work - but at one point I'd offered a one-day pinhole camera workshop for a class of fifth graders, during a blizzard! Yep...everyone freezing, teeth chattering - while doing their best to hold their little cardboard cameras still. A few of these cameras actually blew away! Oh...the horror!

[esearing]

If you lower the tripods working height and spread the legs further apart it becomes more stable, instead of shooting at standing eye level. Corran often shoots a foot or two above water level when shooting the Georgia rivers and waterfalls. This also gives a different perspective on foreground objects and can make your shot different from others.

[Jim Jones]

Weight of camera and tripod is not as important as good engineering and construction. 150 years ago, with big cameras and slow plates, the problems with long outdoors exposures were fairly well solved, but eventually often neglected. A surveyor's tripod with the halves of the upper section widely splayed and firmly anchored, top and bottom, can be more stable than the more convenient multi-section tubular legs. The mating surface between camera and tripod should be large and solid. Anything interposed between them may introduce instability. When I first considered buying a Tiltall tripod 50 years ago, it seemed to violate some good engineering principals, but the Marchioni brothers compensated for that with fine construction. My half century experience using Tiltall has confirmed this. Even more important than the engineering and construction of cameras and tripods is how they are used. Previous posts have covered this well.

[LabRat]

[QUOTE=When I first considered buying a Tiltall tripod 50 years ago, it seemed to violate some good engineering principals, but the Marchioni brothers compensated for that with fine construction. My half century experience using Tiltall has confirmed this. Even more important than the engineering and construction of cameras and tripods is how they are used. Previous posts have covered this well.[/QUOTE]

Another vote here for an old Tiltall... Have been using them with heavier (Linhof Tek III) and ultralight folders for decades, and they are rigid without being ringy/springy and work well with center column fully extended... They work well in a breeze, but everything is off the table (even the table) in 50mph winds... ;-)

Steve K