Is Horseman Camera Misleading Us Re Movements?

[Tom-Thomas]

Hi all, first post here, and please forgive me if I make any mistake.

It’s been a couple of decades since I last used a view camera. I am planning to get back to it and going to buy a view camera in the near future. While doing research on cameras available to buy, I read Horseman’s various claims of movements that are, according to Horseman, unique to their L-Frame construction.

Maybe I am not knowledgeable enough with view cameras, but for the life of me, I don’t understand their claim of uniqueness. The “unique” movements they describe look to me are the same old regular movements you can find on regular view cameras, and they aren’t at all unique to the L-Frame construction.

Referring to their web page here: https://www.kenko-pi.co.jp/horseman/e/L45.html

(A) They claim a “Film Axis Tilt” (F.A.T.) feature:


Perhaps the most unique Horseman feature in the L45/L45 PRO are found in the design of the "L" standards and their associated control mechanisms. They assure that even when tilt and swing operations are used, the tilt/swing axis always stays coincident with the film plane. When a swing or tilt movement needs to be applied, once the desired image plane is focused on the appropriate swing/tilt axis line, the inclination can be in one movement without trial and error adjustment between focus and inclination.

That description there is just a description of the regular axis (center) tilt and swing.

(B) They mention their “Variable Axis Tilt” (F.A.T.) as a unique feature of theirs:


Now, Horseman goes a big step beyond this by providing "variable axis tilt." The tilt axis still remains in the film plane, eliminating the need for refocusing after tilt has been applied; but the axis can now be moved away from the film plane center, within a range of 40mm. This lets the photographer respond to situations where the object's main horizontal focus axis is not at the exact center.


Due to upward and downward movements of the main frame, the tilt axis can be adjusted by as much as 40mm below the center.

What they describe here is just the situation when you use the rise on the front standard in combination with the front axis (center) tilt. What so unique about it?

(C) Focus Plane Rise (F.P.R.):


But now, the Horseman "focus plane rise" feature permits reframing after focusing in one easy step. The camera back can be raised and lowered along the focal plane. By the same token, the front can be moved along the lens plane. Focusing is not disturbed by these operations, making last second frame adjustments a quick and painless process.

Isn’t this just the regular rise-fall movement? Unless you incorporate other movements, regular rise-fall is always along the focal plane, right?

Is Horseman misleading the consumers by claiming regular view camera movements as something unique to their cameras, inventing some fancy terms, like F.A.T., V.A.T., F.P.R.?
Am I mistaken? If I am wrong, please explain to me in detail the uniqueness of these features.

[r.e.]

I only looked at the first item on your list, Film Axis Tilt (FAT). This appears to be similar to what Arca-Swiss calls Orbix, which is an expensive option that saves focusing time. However, the B&H description of the Horseman L45 (the page still exists) suggests that FAT may have a limitation that Orbix doesn't have. I should add that I've never used this Horseman camera, and don't have Orbix on my Arca. Others will know more about this than I do.

[Michael R]

Variable axis tilt is rare, really only a thing on a few studio/monorails, and the simplest way to implement that feature is to have the standards held by the sides, as is the case with an L or U frame.

The Linhof Kardan Master GTL is/was another example of this type of design although I think the variable axis tilt on the Linhof was even more flexible.

Center tilts are of course common, and there are/were also cameras with asymmetric tilt and/or swing (even some field/flatbed cameras offer asymmetric tilt on the rear standard), but in these cases the axes are fixed. It’s the ability to move the tilt axis up or down (ie variable axis tilt) which is rare.

[Tin Can]

I have 4x5 and 8X10

Heavy and expensive with no parts available

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50999164915_97723cb215_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/292hDD)Horseman (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/292hDD) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Bob Salomon]

Variable axis tilt is rare, really only a thing on a few studio/monorails, and the simplest way to implement that feature is to have the standards held by the sides, as is the case with an L or U frame.

The Linhof Kardan Master GTL is/was another example of this type of design although I think the variable axis tilt on the Linhof was even more flexible.

Center tilts are of course common, and there are/were also cameras with asymmetric tilt and/or swing (even some field/flatbed cameras offer asymmetric tilt on the rear standard), but in these cases the axes are fixed. It’s the ability to move the tilt axis up or down (ie variable axis tilt) which is rare.
LInhof originally introduced the variable assymetric movement on their original L standard camera.
Sinar sued LInhof for patent infringement as one point was the same as Sinar’s. LInhof lost the suit in a German court and the L was discontinued.
LInhof reintroduced the movement after Sinar’s patent expired and brought it back on a L shape camera with the telescoping rail.

[Michael R]

Interesting info, Bob.


LInhof originally introduced the variable assymetric movement on their original L standard camera.
Sinar sued LInhof for patent infringement as one point was the same as Sinar’s. LInhof lost the suit in a German court and the L was discontinued.
LInhof reintroduced the movement after Sinar’s patent expired and brought it back on a L shape camera with the telescoping rail.

[Tin Can]

I don't use it, now

It is neat to stretch the bellows way longer than the main rack, by combining movements

[sharktooth]

In most center tilt monorail view cameras the rear tilt axis is in front of the film plane. if the tilt axis was through the film plane the rear standards will block the ability to insert a horizontal film holder when the back is tilted. You can get the front lens tilt axis to go roughly through the lens center since there's no obstruction issue like in the rear.

Eyeball some pictures of center tilt monorail cameras from the side view, and you'll see that the front lensboard probably cuts through the front tilt pivot axis. On the rear, however, the film plane will be well behind the rear tilt pivot axis. The further the film plane is behind the rear tilt axis, the greater the allowable tilt.

If the rear tilt axis goes through the film plane, then anything along that axis will not change position when the back is tilted. If the rear tilt axis is not along the film plane, then everything changes focus as you tilt. The amount of focus shift near the centerline of the film isn't that much with center tilts, but is a lot with base tilts.

The Sinar P camera introduced an ingenious way to use tilts. There are no uprights to block film holder insertion, and the tilt axis is moved to the lower section of the frame with a marked line on the ground glass. If you focus on something along that line, you can then tilt the back to focus on another point in the frame. This won't affect the focus of the point you focused on first. This basically achieves tilt focus in fewer steps.

The Horseman L system has both top and side access to install the film holder without blockage, so the tilt axis can go through the film plane. On the basic Horseman L you have a center tilt axis going through the film plane. On the more advanced Horseman you can also shift the axis tilt so it can be above or below the center axis, and do the same thing as you can do with the Sinar P/P2. The advantage of the Horseman is that you can choose where you want the tilt axis to be. That's what sets it apart. You can't move the tilt axis on the Sinar P/P2 directly, but you can shift the standard up or down for focusing, and then shift it back down after focus is set. It's almost the same thing but an extra step.

[Bob Salomon]

In most monorail view cameras the rear tilt axis is in front of the film plane. if the tilt axis was through the film plane the rear standards will block the ability to insert a horizontal film holder when the back is tilted. You can get the front lens tilt axis to go roughly through the lens center since there's no obstruction issue like in the rear.

Eyeball some pictures of center tilt monorail cameras from the side view, and you'll see that the front lensboard probably cuts through the front tilt pivot axis. On the rear, however, the film plane will be well behind the rear tilt pivot axis. The further the film plane is behind the rear tilt axis, the greater the allowable tilt.

If the rear tilt axis goes through the film plane, then anything along that axis will not change position when the back is tilted. If the rear tilt axis is not along the film plane, then everything changes focus as you tilt. The amount of focus shift near the centerline of the film isn't that much with center tilts, but is a lot with base tilts.

The Sinar P camera introduced an ingenious way to use tilts. There are no uprights to block film holder insertion, and the tilt axis is moved to the lower section of the frame with a marked line on the ground glass. If you focus on something along that line, you can then tilt the back to focus on another point in the frame. This won't affect the focus of the point you focused on first. This basically achieves tilt focus in fewer steps.

The Horseman L system has both top and side access to install the film holder without blockage, so the tilt axis can go through the film plane. On the basic Horseman L you have a center tilt axis going through the film plane. On the more advanced Horseman you can also shift the axis tilt so it can be above or below the center axis, and do the same thing as you can do with the Sinar P/P2. The advantage of the horseman is that you can choose where you want the tilt axis to be. That's what sets it apart. You can't move the tilt axis on the Sinar P/P2 directly, but you can shift the standard up or down for focusing, and then shift it back down after focus is set. It's almost the same thing but an extra step.

So do the LInhof L cameras as well as the Technikardan cameras.

[sharktooth]

The Cambo Master has it as well. I'm not sure how the Arca Swiss Orbit works. Maybe it does too.

[Tin Can]

Plain Jane Horseman were very cheap 8 t0 10 years ago, almost free

I bought a few for parts, and they do wear out

Soon I had a pile, then started collecting anything Horseman

When the double tilts showed up I captured 2

But who really needs them these days?

If you buy an 8X10 make sure you get the Cambo rear as shown in my pic

It is far better than the Toyo back

[sharktooth]

I'd never used a Horseman before, but I did like the look of them, and when one popped up out of the blue last year, I decided to get it. No off center tilts. and no base tilts, but it does have geared rise/fall and geared shift. You can use Sinar boards, bellows, and backs, so there is better availability of some key spare parts.

This is definitely a very nice view camera, and if the price is right it can be all the camera you'll ever need. It's miles better than a Sinar f model in terms of functionality and ease of use. It's by no means light, but it is very sturdy, and it packages well for transporting around.

[Tom-Thomas]

Thank you all for the replies. Much appreciated. After reading you guys' info, I consulted the L models manual (here: https://www.kenko-pi.co.jp/horseman/manual/index_e.html) more thoroughly this time around. Now I understand how their features work. So thank you.

***Another one I am looking at is the Toyo VX125. Anyone has any opinion on this or other Toyo models?

[sharktooth]

If you can even find a Toyo VX125 it's probably going to be expensive. Any of the top line models from the likes of Cambo, Linhof, Sinar, Toyo, Horseman, Arca-Swiss, Plaubel and others are going to be good enough for anybody. The deciding factors are going to be condition, price, and availability in your area.

Are you looking to buy new, or are you looking to buy a used camera?

[Tom-Thomas]

Yes, I know they are expensive. Currently (until i win the lottery ... one day, ha ha), I am looking at used camera. I like the Toyo VX125 a lot. The only thing that bothers me is its lack of axis tilt (only base tilt is available).

[Jody_S]

I happen to have a Horseman L Pro on hand and I can see how a product photographer would save time using the variable axis rear tilt to adjust perspective without refocusing all the time. I, however, am not a product photographer, so I'm going to simply sell the camera to someone who appreciates this sort of thing.

[Bernice Loui]

Realize the limitations of the Toyo VX..

http://www.toyoview.com/Products/VX125/VX125.html


325mm of camera/bellows extension is simply NOT enough. This will impose very real limitations on what lenses can be used on the Toyo VX. Same with wide angle lenses if no bag bellows is an option... regardless of what Toyo advertises on their promo sheet.

Toyo VX might be available new, what do they cost and what supporting accessories are available?

Having used a Toyo VX decades ago when they were new as a demo, no thanks.


Bernice





***Another one I am looking at is the Toyo VX125. Anyone has any opinion on this or other Toyo models?

[tgtaylor]

Long Extension Accessories For VX125
To use lenses longer than 300mm normal or 400mm telephoto, or to get closerfocusing for extreme close-ups or macro work, use the ultra-light VX125front and rear frame with the following accessories: replace the VX bellowsand telescoping monorail with a #180-692 750mm Long Bellows, #180-714 TripodMounting Block, #180-740 Basic monorail and add extension monorails on eitherend.
USA # Int'l# Item/Description
180-692 (10122) 4x5Long Bellows, 750mm, for G/GX/VX125
180-714 (8008) 54mmTripod Mount Block. Features 1/4" & 3/8" socket
180-740 (10106) 250mm GX BASIC, (black) includes2- G/GX end caps
180-741 (10107) 250mmG/GX Extension, (black) accepts extensions
180-745 (8312) 500mmGB Extension, (black)

If you can stand the weight (12lbs) you can also consider the Toyo Robos which are becoming more available used. The Robos has both base and axial movements on each standard.

Thomas

[Bernice Loui]

Been tooting for years the Horseman L series was one of the best bargain monorail cameras available. The Basic 45L once cost a tad over $100 used and they are a FAR nicer camera than any other monorail at that used price point.

Sinar P was the first market successful monorail with asymmetrical swing/tilt. Keep in mind back in those color transparency sheet film days, majority of these images were done in studio with controlled lighting and such. Speed and ease of setting up the camera was a significant advantage to producing these images. A GOOD precision gear driven monorail with asymmetrical swing/tilt had very distinct advantages for producing these images.. Thus driving the view camera market from that era.

Today, seems majority of folks venturing into this view camera stuff are into outdoor images with very modest demands on camera/lens and related imaging tools. What once was a profession with standards of what is acceptable -vs- what is not acceptable as commercial color transparency images. These days, this view camera stuff appears more "hobby" to highly expressive artistic means of image creation.


Bernice




I happen to have a Horseman L Pro on hand and I can see how a product photographer would save time using the variable axis rear tilt to adjust perspective without refocusing all the time. I, however, am not a product photographer, so I'm going to simply sell the camera to someone who appreciates this sort of thing.

[Tom-Thomas]

Realize the limitations of the Toyo VX..
Understood. Also the Toyo VX125 has quite a few less movements available. Though, I am considering the VX125 because it's small and light enough for field work also.

[Tom-Thomas]

If you can stand the weight (12lbs) you can also consider the Toyo Robos which are becoming more available used. The Robos has both base and axial movements on each standard.
Thanks. I have never heard of the Toyo Robos. Sounds good. Will look into it more.

[Bernice Loui]

Toyo's answer-reply to the Sinar P..

Market did not like it much.


Bernice





THanks. I have never heard of the Toyo Robos. Sounds good. Will look into it more.

[Jim Andrada]

I have a 5 x 7 Linhof Master L-System camera. The bellows is shot but I can swap the bellows from my 5 X 7 Kardan Bi so the camera is usable. I checked, and the film plane is indeed centered on the tilt axis. Not a problem for insertion of the film holder - being an L standard, the top and right side are open.

The groundglass has a scale on two orthogonal sides of the ground glass. You can pick your "invariant focus point" in your scene (maybe the cute puppy sitting on a bench) and read off the vertical or horizontal shift required, use the geared drive to set the index mark on the matching vertical or horizontal scale, and all of you swings (and tilts) will preserve the focus on the "invariant point". The front standard is recessed so the center of the shutter should be pretty close to lining up with the front tilt/swing axes. I've never tried to see how exactly the front tilt axis does in fact line up with the correct point in the shutter assembly, but i suspect you could shim your lens boards for different shutters to get the tilt/swing axis pretty well lined up with the tilt axis. There's probably a table somewhere that has the right offset for a variety of shutters or something like that.

If someone has a better explanation, I'd love to see it. If I feel energetic enough maybe I'll make a YouTube video one of these days.

[Tin Can]

There was a XXX member who really wanted my 8X10 Pro Horseman

I almost sold it to him

he was a real jerk to me often on this forum

he told me he was going to use only the rear parts

I then realized I would never find that nice a camera again

I kiboshed the sale just before money was sent

Now with all this yabber, I am waiting for a Nikkor-AM ED 210mm f/5.6


I happen to have a Horseman L Pro on hand and I can see how a product photographer would save time using the variable axis rear tilt to adjust perspective without refocusing all the time. I, however, am not a product photographer, so I'm going to simply sell the camera to someone who appreciates this sort of thing.

[r.e.]

There was a ... member who really wanted my 8X10 Pro Horseman

I almost sold it to him

he was a real jerk to me often on this forum

he told me he was going to use only the rear parts

I then realized I would never find that nice a camera again

I kiboshed the sale just before money was sent

What does the nationality of the person that you agreed to sell the camera to, and on which you then failed to live up to the agreement, have to do with anything?

[Tin Can]

IMHO

Until money is in my hand, there is no consummation

Even then until the item is satisfactory to buyer and in their hands, as above




What does the nationality of the person that you agreed to sell the camera to, and on which you then failed to live up to the agreement, have to do with anything?

[r.e.]

IMHO

Until money is in my hand, there is no consummation

Even then until the item is satisfactory to buyer and in their hands, as above

I didn't ask you that. I asked what the nationality of the person that you failed to live upon to an agreement with has to do with anything.

[Tin Can]

Nothing

Happy now?


I didn't ask you that. I asked what the nationality of the person that you failed to live upon to an agreement with has to do with anything.

[Tin Can]

Mr R E you are not arbitore of my actions


I didn't ask you that. I asked what the nationality of the person that you failed to live upon to an agreement with has to do with anything.

[r.e.]

Nothing

Happy now?

Good to see that you've reconsidered and have removed the reference to nationality.

[Tin Can]

Nobody is perfectly politically correct

I try to be and fell


Good to see that you've reconsidered and have removed the reference to nationality.

[Michael R]

Understood. Also the Toyo VX125 has quite a few less movements available. Though, I am considering the VX125 because it's small and light enough for field work also.

It’s a really nice, compact camera. However it has some quirks. For example I know one highly accomplished photographer who switched to it from his other monorails for a time and had to have it serviced twice for stripped gears so he eventually gave up on it.

[Bernice Loui]

"limited" camera movements not as relevant as perceived. Long as tilt/swings/shift/rise can be applied with precision and stable should be good. Extras like asymmetrical tilt/swing should be considered camera set up time savers. Ya still MUST know how to apply and use camera movements properly as the camera alone will never do it for you.

As for weight, Toyo VX is 5.5 pounds.
http://www.toyoview.com/Products/VX125/VX125.html

Arca Swiss discovery, Sinar F. Sinar Norma and similar modular 4x5 about 6 to 7 pounds. Bulk is not different enough to make that much difference.
Tip, a good dark cloth adds a pound or such.

Given the limited camera and bellows extension of the Toyo VX (324mm), limited accessories, availability of accessories, high cost, not well proven durability and such.. why decide on a Toyo VX when there are better alternatives with far less camera limitations?



Bernice





Understood. Also the Toyo VX125 has quite a few less movements available. Though, I am considering the VX125 because it's small and light enough for field work also.

[Michael Graves]

I have 4x5 and 8X10

Heavy and expensive with no parts available

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50999164915_97723cb215_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/292hDD)Horseman (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/292hDD) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

Me, too. Yes, they are. Don't care. Love it.

Hope I replied to those in the right order.

[Bernice Loui]

How available are these accessories for the VX125, cost ?

750mm long bellow long as the VX125 will go?

Sinar does not have a 750mm limit, simply add as much as needed then apply proper supports and the add ons are not difficult or costly to obtain.
220899

220900

220901


Bernice





Long Extension Accessories For VX125
To use lenses longer than 300mm normal or 400mm telephoto, or to get closerfocusing for extreme close-ups or macro work, use the ultra-light VX125front and rear frame with the following accessories: replace the VX bellowsand telescoping monorail with a #180-692 750mm Long Bellows, #180-714 TripodMounting Block, #180-740 Basic monorail and add extension monorails on eitherend.
USA # Int'l# Item/Description
180-692 (10122) 4x5Long Bellows, 750mm, for G/GX/VX125
180-714 (8008) 54mmTripod Mount Block. Features 1/4" & 3/8" socket
180-740 (10106) 250mm GX BASIC, (black) includes2- G/GX end caps
180-741 (10107) 250mmG/GX Extension, (black) accepts extensions
180-745 (8312) 500mmGB Extension, (black)

If you can stand the weight (12lbs) you can also consider the Toyo Robos which are becoming more available used. The Robos has both base and axial movements on each standard.

Thomas

[Tom-Thomas]

It’s a really nice, compact camera. However it has some quirks. For example I know one highly accomplished photographer who switched to it from his other monorails for a time and had to have it serviced twice for stripped gears so he eventually gave up on it.
Thanks. Good to know.

[Tom-Thomas]

As for weight, Toyo VX is 5.5 pounds.
http://www.toyoview.com/Products/VX125/VX125.html

Arca Swiss discovery, Sinar F. Sinar Norma and similar modular 4x5 about 6 to 7 pounds.
In some situations, like a long hiking trip, every pound counts. Also when I made the comment about the weight of the Toyo VX125, I have the Horseman L45 in mind for comparison. The L45 is listed at 10 lbs — the difference isn't at all negatable, IMO.


Given the limited camera and bellows extension of the Toyo VX (324mm), limited accessories, availability of accessories, high cost, not well proven durability and such.. why decide on a Toyo VX when there are better alternatives with far less camera limitations?
Another reason I consider the Toyo is that Toyo are still making the cameras. Not that I can afford to buy the new units, but the fact that they are still in production means that parts and accessories should be, relatively speaking, easier to find. OTOH, I am not sure the Horseman L models are still in production or not. I don't know for sure, all I know is that I cannot find it anywhere (in the US at least) new.

[B.S.Kumar]

Horseman cameras have been discontinued. Toyo still makes cameras, though the VX125 is now made to order only, with a lead time of 4-6 months. Parts for the VX125 take longer to deliver, while those for the 45A, 810M and other monorail cameras are generally in stock.

Kumar

[Bernice Loui]

Explain how and what should wear out on any high quality view camera?

~Fixed lens box camera ideology and traditions do not transfer-apply to this view camera stuff.

If you're hiking and demand a lightweight field folder, why ANY monorail camera when weight is the prime consideration?
Do not discount the weight-bulk of lenses, film holder(s), light meter, focus loupe, dark cloth, tripod and all related and required items
to facilitate making any view camera images.


Bernice



In some situations, like a long hiking trip, every pound counts. Also when I made the comment about the weight of the Toyo VX125, I have the Horseman L45 in mind for comparison. The L45 is listed at 10 lbs — the difference isn't at all negatable, IMO.


Another reason I consider the Toyo is that Toyo are still making the cameras. Not that I can afford to buy the new units, but the fact that they are still in production means that parts and accessories should be, relatively speaking, easier to find. OTOH, I am not sure the Horseman L models are still in production or not. I don't know for sure, all I know is that I cannot find it anywhere (in the US at least) new.

[Tom-Thomas]

Explain how and what should wear out on any high quality view camera?
I understand that you think that Toyo's quality isn't comparable to the others you mentioned. I have no experience with Toyo (or Horseman for that matter), but I'll take your words for it. However, having said that, there are many factors for me to consider when choosing a camera and durability / build quality is but one of many. There is no perfect camera, there are pros and cons for each one and at the end of the day, it's a matter of making the best choice within many limitations and preferences.


If you're hiking and demand a lightweight field folder, why ANY monorail camera when weight is the prime consideration?
Let me explain myself more clearly. Sure, a foldable, light weight field camera is better for field work. I understand that. Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly before. With the large format camera, I'd mainly do studio works but occasionally I enjoy shooting large format out on field. Having just enough fund to afford only one camera, I am thinking that the Toyo VX125 is small and light enough for the occasional field trips. Maybe later on when I have more money, I'll spring for a second camera specially used for field works, like a Shen Hao or a Chamonix. But that's for the future. Money is one of those limitations and preferences I just mention. Having limited fund to spend, a mono-rail that can be reasonably (not ideally, mind you) used for both situations is appealing to me personally. Other people may come to a different conclusion based on their own set of limitations and preferences.


Do not discount the weight-bulk of lenses, film holder(s), light meter, focus loupe, dark cloth, tripod and all related and required items
to facilitate making any view camera images.
I have not discount the bulk and weight of all those stuff. In fact, it is exactly because all the other stuff is already a burden enough, the size and weight of the camera becomes an important consideration.


***Anyway, I am not set on the Toyo VX125. I mention it only as one of many that I am considering.

[Bob Salomon]

I understand that you think that Toyo's quality isn't comparable to the others you mentioned. I have no experience with Toyo (or Horseman for that matter), but I'll take your words for it. However, having said that, there are many factors for me to consider when choosing a camera and durability / build quality is but one of many. There is no perfect camera, there are pros and cons for each one and at the end of the day, it's a matter of making the best choice within many limitations and preferences.


Let me explain myself more clearly. Sure, a foldable, light weight field camera is better for field work. I understand that. Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly before. With the large format camera, I'd mainly do studio works but occasionally I enjoy shooting large format out on field. Having just enough fund to afford only one camera, I am thinking that the Toyo VX125 is small and light enough for the occasional field trips. Maybe later on when I have more money, I'll spring for a second camera specially used for field works, like a Shen Hao or a Chamonix. But that's for the future. Money is one of those limitations and preferences I just mention. Having limited fund to spend, a mono-rail that can be reasonably (not ideally, mind you) used for both situations is appealing to me personally. Other people may come to a different conclusion based on their own set of limitations and preferences.


I have not discount the bulk and weight of all those stuff. In fact, it is exactly because all the other stuff is already a burden enough, the size and weight of the camera becomes an important consideration.


***Anyway, I am not set on the Toyo VX125. I mention it only as one of many that I am considering.

Then why aren’t you looking at the Technikardan or the Technikardan S?

[Tom-Thomas]

Horseman cameras have been discontinued. Toyo still makes cameras, though the VX125 is now made to order only, with a lead time of 4-6 months. Parts for the VX125 take longer to deliver, while those for the 45A, 810M and other monorail cameras are generally in stock.

Kumar

Thank you for the info.

[Ig Nacio]

Hi,


LInhof originally introduced the variable assymetric movement on their original L standard camera.
Sinar sued LInhof for patent infringement as one point was the same as Sinar’s. LInhof lost the suit in a German court and the L was discontinued.
LInhof reintroduced the movement after Sinar’s patent expired and brought it back on a L shape camera with the telescoping rail.

Wow : )!!! Cool, very interesting information Bob!!!

Thank you, kind regards!

[Rod Klukas]

The difference between Axis tilt and Orbix/MicroOrbix tilt on Arca-Swiss cameras, is that the axis for tilting on most Arca-Swiss cameras, is almost perfectly rotating on the nodal axis of the lens. After using Orbix tilt, a swing, if required, will not move through an arc, which would require a re-composing movement such as shift, and then a refocus. Many axis tilt cameras have the tilt axis slightly to the rear of the vertical axis of a lens, and thus if tilt is used and then swing, a close observance of the lens during the swing movement, will note this arc movement.

Focus will be held quite accurately, requiring many less iterations to achieve complete sharp focus.

Rod