Problem: Long Rail, Long Bellows... Is There a Solution to Use One Tripod

[Qeb]

Greetings,

If one were to use a Toyo 810G with around 1 meter bellows extension, is there a way to use just one tripod?

I've been told one should use two tripods but I found this photo recently and I've also been wondering
if there is commercially made component that will allow one to use one tripod...

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Could one weld together thick round tubing into a very wide upside down triangle and the vertice that's is larger than 90 degrees
have a component welded so it can attach to a tripod. Then the smaller than 90 degree vertices would have a way to attach
to the rail clamps/mounts?

I guess two tripods is easiest in finding parts but for operation of the camera rig I would love to use my heavy and big Majestic tripod
(Though if I have to use two tripods there is another Majestic for sale not too far from me home).

Thanks for reading this.
Have a great weekend.
Be well :)

Best Regards,
Kevin H.

[Dan Fromm]

Well, the 8x10 in y'r photo is a Cambo and the tripod mounting block is Cambo's C378 monorail connector/double tripod mount. I'm not sure -- my ignorance is showing -- that there's anything like the C378 in the Toyo system.

Have you considered using something like a Manfrotto Magic Arm (or two) to tie your Toyo's rail to a tripod leg (or two)?

[Drew Wiley]

You use more than one rail clamp attached to a long uniting bar below. I happen to use Sinar monorails, and have their own dedicated accessory bar to do this. But I make my own out of 1x3 maple stock. The second secret is to bolt the bar itself securely down to a tripod PLATFORM top, not any flimsy intermediary. I fasten right down to the top platform of my Ries wooden tripod, itself maple. Very secure.

[Hugo Zhang]

Yes you can try to use one tripod AND a light weight CF monopod to support the front.

[r.e.]

I would consider using two slider stands, or a slider stand plus a tripod, to do this.

I have a Matthews slider stand like this one: https://www.filmtools.com/matthews-studio-equipment-3-8-slider-stand.html

It weighs 6.4kg (14lb) and has a 94cm (37") footprint. If you want more weight, just add sandbags to the legs.

The female receiver at the top of the stand is a Junior receiver, which is 1 1/8" in diameter. Easy to attach a steel plate with a male Junior pin on the bottom. Plates like this are available off the shelf.

Working height is 61cm-117cm (24"-46"). The stands can be mounted on a platform, such as apple boxes, for more height. There are other "Junior Stands" that will give one more working height than these, if desired.

I note from another post that you're in Toronto. I would think that all of the film production rental houses, and maybe a pro photo operation like Vistek (https://www.vistek.ca), have these stands for rent.

If you aren't familiar with slider stands, that have many uses, but get their name as a support for camera sliders. This is a brief Matthews promo video:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBnCWY_eYKY

[r.e.]

This Matthews video shows a cinematographer setting up a cinema camera and dolly on two of the company's slider stands:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gOFZM_Lvvw&t=98s

[r.e.]

Yes you can try to use one tripod AND a light weight CF monopod to support the front.

The attached photo shows Gitzo's most robust monopod mounted on a very sturdy Really Right Stuff ground tripod. I use this setup for some purposes, such as to support a binaural microphone as in the photo. Even with the tripod legs extended (they aren't in the photo), I don't think that it's as solid a support as I would want for the situation that @QEB is talking about.


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[Hugo Zhang]

The attached photo shows Gitzo's most robust monopod mounted on a very sturdy Really Right Stuff ground tripod. I use this setup for some purposes, such as to support a binaural microphone as in the photo. Even with the tripod legs extended (they aren't in the photo), I don't think that it's as solid a support as I would want for the situation that @QEB is talking about.

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I was talking about my real life experience using a 16x20 camera with a 750mm lens with a Sinar auto shutter. The tripod is Ries A with its 250A head. With wide angle and normal lenses with little or no wind, no front tripod/monopod support is needed. But when the camera bellows is fully stretched, some support under the front standard is a must. A carbon fiber monopod is very light and can keep the front still. Yes it has been done.

[r.e.]

I was talking about my real life experience using a 16x20 camera with a 750mm lens with a Sinar auto shutter. The tripod is Ries A with its 250A head. With wide angle and normal lenses with little or no wind, no front tripod/monopod support is needed. But when the camera bellows is fully stretched, some support under the front standard is a must. A carbon fiber monopod is very light and can keep the front still. Yes it has been done.

Cool. I use a Fujinon 600mm C with an Arca-Swiss 8x10 monorail, as well as a Ries tripod with J 250 head, so I have a little real life experience myself :)

Based on Kevin's first post, he appears to want a very sturdy platform and I assume that he has his reasons. Not surprising, given that he's talking about 1,000mm of bellows. Maybe he's over-engineering, but I don't know anything about his project or the conditions under which he'll be shooting, so have no reason to believe that. One thing I do know is that rock solid is never a bad idea.

[Mark Darragh]

Further to Dan's suggestion

Robert Polidori using an Arca-Swiss 11x14 and two Magic Arms or similar in attached to the tripod.

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[r.e.]

Further to Dan's suggestion

Robert Polidori using an Arca-Swiss 11x14 and two Magic Arms or similar in attached to the tripod.

Cool photo, but the rig looks very unstable. Dead calm conditions, but otherwise? Can't tell what the tripod head is, but I'd want more mass under the rail - say a Ries dual tilt head, or a levelling base and mostly level from the legs. Plus some weight low to the ground. Looks like a Gitzo carbon fibre tripod with clamps to attach the Magic Arms to the short metal sleeves on the legs between the crown and the exposed carbon fibre.

Bright Tangerine in the U.K. has an arm called the Titan Arm that's a major improvement over Manfrotto's Magic Arm. Production is suspended because BT is working on a new version that's less complicated to produce, but Vistek in Toronto, where Kevin is, may rent the Titan Arm. However, at 11" it isn't long enough for a tripod head/rail that's as high as in the photo.

There's a Titan Arm in the photo below. Being Australian, you'll recognise the tripod head that it's mounted to :)


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[r.e.]

There's a Titan Arm in the photo below. Being Australian, you'll recognise the tripod head that it's mounted to.

Don't know if any Australians are doing this, but Miller's fluid heads make great still camera supports. The Miller makes manipulating the camera in the first photo (Arca-Swiss F-Line, 4x5 configuration, 75mm lens) a snap, but it really comes into its own when I have the camera set up for 8x10 with a fair bit of bellows. With the head and camera balanced, the fluid head makes panning the 8x10 to set the angle to the subject a breeze; and tilting the camera up or down, at even pronounced angles, is effortless and precise.

The camera in the second photo is not locked down. The Miller head and camera are balanced, the camera was tilted to that position (can be done with one finger) and the camera will stay put at that angle by itself. As you may know, this is what makes it possible to have a shot in a movie that tilts up or down with the camera coming to a full stop and holding on the subject. One of the things that I like about this head is that it contributes some weight, helping stability. A Miller CX 6, it weighs 2.2kg (4.9lb). Load capacity is 0-12kg (0-26.5lb). Some fluid heads have a minimum weight for load for counterbalance reasons, but this one doesn't. It can be used with quite light cameras. The Cartoni Focus 22 fluid head in the video in post #6 has a minimum load of 3kg (6.6lb).


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[Gord Robinson]

This set up allows me to use a meter of bellows on my Plaubel Peco Profia 5x7. The tripod that supports the rig is a Gitzo 5G. Plaubel made an auxiliary standard to allow you to connect and support the two bellows. If there is not an auxiliary stand made by the camera manufacturer then a second front stand could be used in it's place.
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[Neal Chaves]

I made a long extension mount for my 810G using two 45G rail clamps on a wide base as Drew has described. It bolts securely to my Majestic Chicago pan head and my Hercules Industrial pan head with the same bolt pattern. Modern studio has pre-made "cheese plates" which could be used.
https://modernstudio.com/collections/plates

[r.e.]

I made a long extension mount for my 810G using two 45G rail clamps on a wide base as Drew has described. It bolts securely to my Majestic Chicago pan head and my Hercules Industrial pan head with the same bolt pattern. Modern studio has pre-made "cheese plates" which could be used.
https://modernstudio.com/collections/plates.

I have some of Modern's hardware, including its 10"x10" cheese plate, and I like the company's products. Just want to note that it's a fairly small company with almost no distribution outside California. Prices don't include shipping, which is fairly expensive. My recollection is that it offers a discount on one's first order that may cover the shipping cost.

If you're in Toronto, as @QEB is, I doubt that it makes economic sense to order from Modern. The film industry is very active in Toronto, so there are probably local options. Also, B&H carries Kupo's grip equipment, including its cheese plates. From what I've seen of Kupo products, I think that it's making good equipment at competitive prices. Pretty hard to mess up a cheese plate anyway :)

[tgtaylor]

I've been using a Gitzo G1570M Rationelle head on a Gitzo G1500 Series 5 tripod for shooting with the Toyo 810G. The G1570M plate is large -~6"x4" (LW) and allows for 2 tripod clamps to be used which holds the camera securely but you have to allow for the vibration to die down before tripping the shutter. Gitzo discontinued the G1570M and as far as I know haven't replaced it with a head with that large (or, lengthwise, larger) plate. The Toyo long bellows is 1200mm but my longest lens is 760mm so I haven't had it extended beyond 800mm or so. The only thing I don't like about the G1570M is that you have to tighten the hell out it to keep it from sagging.

Thomas

[Qeb]

Wow, thank you all so much for your time and help!!!
You folks on here really care and share!

I'm not sure if I'm able to address everyone's input/help.

Drew Wiley, do you have a photo?

R.E., do you have a photo by chance also?

Neal Chaves, could I also trouble you for a photo?


So, this rig/setup would be used for in studio portraits. I know eventually, I will want to do closer than busk / head shots and I will need to use my long bellows.

Thanks everyone again!
Have a lovely week :)
Best Regards,
Kevin H.

[Drew Wiley]

Sorry, I not currently able to post pictures. Maybe in the future. But there are obviously a lot of analogous ideas on this thread.

[Qeb]

Oh, yes, thank you Dan and Mark!

I think I will try to look into the Magic Arms!

My camera does have three tripod clamps but would really like to avoid using two tripods!

Thanks again everyone!
Have a great week!

[Willie]

https://www.manfrotto.com/us-en/cross-arm-double-end-with-double-head-support-black-131ddb/

Something like this might work for you?