Pan and Tilt tripod head recommendations?

[Bill_1856]

It seems silly to spend $400 for a 3.5# carbon fiber tripod and then put a 2# head on it, just to save a few ounces less than my ancient 6# Tiltall. I have several ball heads but for a view camera would prefer a traditional Pan and Tilt job. Any recommendation for a sturdy, LIGHT head with bubble levels? (My camera is a 2.5# 4x5 Nagaoka with very light Dagors).

[Ed Richards]

> It seems silly to spend $400 for a 3.5# carbon fiber tripod and then put a 2# head on it, just to save a few ounces less than my ancient 6# Tiltall.

I think you summed it up pretty well - have you already bought the tripod? I decided that for a light weight tripod, it was hard to justify replacing my old Tiltall. I still use it when I do not want to carry around my 12# bogen. One of the factors was not being able to find a good p&t head that would not raise the weight of the combo too close to the tiltall.

[CXC]

The Gitzo Low Profile Heads, such as the G1570m. I saved some money by finding an older version used; these things are bombproof enough that there is little risk in buying a used one. I've been fully satisfied with the two that I've owned, and personally wouldn't bother considering anything else. I use the G1200 for my 8x10, even though it is the smallest model, intended only for 4x5. It has a nice big platform, maybe 3.5"x6". The 'm' on the end of certain model numbers stands for magnesium, said models being lighter and costlier.

If one insists upon a quick release, there may be better solutions. I tilt the head forward about 60 degrees, so I can see the hole in the camera, held by the handle in the left hand, as well as the screw in the head, turned with the right hand. This way I can get the 8x10 on in a reasonably small number of seconds (<20). I imagine there are other camera designs would be more awkward to mount, e.g. many monorails. I use a Wehman.

[Dean Cookson]

Well, a 2lb head on a 3.5lb tripod makes 5.5lbs. A 2lb head on a 6lb tripod is 8lbs. So, that $400 saves 2.5 lbs which is the whole weight of your camera.

[Ed Richards]

> A 2lb head on a 6lb tripod is 8lbs.

The Tiltall WITH head is 6#. So $400 saves you 0.5# - about one big mac.:-)

[Lee Hamiel]

May want to check this Bogen/Manfrotto head out - I have one & the handles are angled downward a bit which helps give you more working room.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=253613&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

[Mark Carstens]

A second on the Bogen / Manfrotto 329RC4 Low Profile 3-Way Pan/Tilt Head with Quick Release. Easy to maneuver and adjust. Easy on the wallet too.

[Dan Jolicoeur]

Lee I have that same tripod head. I bought mine used for a great price. Next time I'll save for the 410 geared head for less than $200 new.

[David Karp]

Don't laugh. Check out the Manfrotto 3028. It is light, cheap (under $30), and works great. No levels though.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=5261&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

[Brian Vuillemenot]

I've been happy with the Bogen 3047.

[Henry Ambrose]

This may not be what you want to hear if you've already bought a new tripod but the Hakuba carbon fiber 503 comes with a nice little 3 -way tilt/pan head all for under $300! And its as nice as any French sticks I've seen but without the way too high price. The Hakuba 503 tripod AND head weighs 4 pounds.

I can even shoot 8x10 off mine as long as I wait for it to settle which it does quickly enough. Its a great tripod. And I still love my old Tiltall but this Hakuba is the one I grab now that I have it. If I need something stout then I go for a much bigger and heavier Bogen/Manfrotto.

Here's the Hakuba (http://www.hakubausa.com/csite/c_products3.asp?cc=10&cs=110" target="_blank)

[Capocheny]

Bill,

Take a look at the Manfrotto 410 geared head... beautiful head and supports 5kg of weight!

Goes for about US$180 on *ba* and there's a lot of them on the block at the moment.

Cheers

[Kirk Gittings]

Ed,

Back in the 70's, the last time I used a Tiltall, LF photographers used to call them the "Guillotine". Know what I mean by that?

[Bob Salomon]

Kirk,

" last time I used a Tiltall"

you have less then 10 fingers?

Like the old Davis & Sanford that would give you a new chin.

[Lee Hamiel]

Yes - the Manfrotto 410 is a great geared head as it allows for quick & then fine tuning - highly recommend - had one & now with my son - So is the Manfrotto 329RC.

Using an Arca-Swiss B2 now which is probably the last tripod head I buy for awhile as it covers different formats for me - weighs a bit & is not small but I wish I bought one a while ago & would have saved some money (my son is happy though) - it's more of a bi-axial pan tilt ball head as the two centers are concentric - once tensioned just right I can easily swing the camera around to where I want it with no looseness & let it go - make any more rough adjustments & then a final tightening. I also use it for 35mm with long lenses - for me it's more a matter of using one tripod & one head now as I used to have two or three of each. I also mounted it to a Manfrotto leveling base for small adjustments as well.

[Lee Hamiel]

I just reviewed your original posting after seeing Kirk & Bob's comments - the B2 would weigh more than your tripod but for a clean swift cut it probably can't be beat ...

[Bill_1856]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Most are far too heavy. The Tiltall isn't all that dangerous after you've used it a few times and the bruises have healed, and the skin regenerated from the crosshatched metal leg locks. In fact, if traveling by car it is probably as good, solid, light, and immovable as can be found.

Does anybody have any experience with the Velbon 630, which seems the best combination I've found so far (4.3#, 55" w/o using the center column, 22" collapsed which will fit in a suitcase for flying).

[Bill_1856]

Also, experience with the Velbon 640.

[Kirk Gittings]

"The Tiltall isn't all that dangerous after you've used it a few times and the bruises have healed, and the skin regenerated from the crosshatched metal leg locks."

The mental pain lingers long after the amputation scars have healed.

[Brian Ellis]

I've used both the Bogen 3047 and the Bogen 3039. Both were very nice pan and tilt heads. The 3039 (hope I've got the number right) costs more than the 3047 and I didn't see any big difference between them in use. My present head is the Bogen 410 someone else mentioned. If you do any architecture type work or other work where it's critical to get lines straight you might consider it. While it's a geared head it can be used much like a pan and tilt head (i.e. you don't have to use the gears to make movements, the head can be moved in the same fashion as a pan tilt head when the gearing isn't needed).

[Ed Richards]

> "The Tiltall isn't all that dangerous after you've used it a few times and the bruises have healed, and the skin regenerated from the crosshatched metal leg locks."

I must be missing something, or perhaps since I also garden and put in some time with a shovel and pick, I am better prepared for the delicate mechanism of the Tiltall.

[Bill_1856]

Ed, there's nothing delicate about the mechanism of the Tiltall -- it's US photographerers what am delicate (and perhaps slow learning about the speed and force with which the column descends when one loosens the brake with 10 pounds of Speed Graphic sitting atop it).

[Henry Ambrose]

I'm with Bill, a bunch of delicate boys here. I experienced this guillotine effect my Tiltall maybe once. Then I learned to tighten the correct knobs. I train fast. ; >)

Seriously - are y'all talking about the column dropping or the head flopping over? I've just never had any trouble with my Tiltall other than its cold to handle in the winter.

[Capocheny]

Henry,

Find some pipe insulation at the local hardware store, cut it to length so that it fits your tripod legs... makes ALL the difference in winter! :)

That's what I used when I dragged my big Majestic tripod around in Banff, Alberta when the temperatures dropped into the minus numbers. Now, I do the same thing with my Manfrotto 475.

Cheers

[Mark Sampson]

I think the Tiltall is a fine tripod- for a Leica. It's too light for a view camera. I need to replace my c.1987 Bogen 3047 head, though. Too many times I've only thought it was tightened down- followed by a flopover. Not good for the camera or my piece of mind! It does seem that the newer Manfrottos are better made.

[Bill_1856]

I disagree, Mark. The Tiltall is just about perfect for a 4x5 in both size and strength, and unless one switches to carbon fiber it's also about the minimum weight. I believe that it was originally designed for use with the Cine-Kodak 16mm (a massive beaste).

[Struan Gray]

I use an Arca B1 and a Sinar Pan-Tilt head on my Gitzo CF legset. Both are about a couple of pounds in weight, but are the minimum I feel happy with using my Norma monorail. I prefer the Sinar, using the bubble levels on the tripod crown and the camera itself to level things up. The B1 I use only when primarily shooting smaller formats.

I have looked for smaller, lighter pan-tilt heads but not found any I would happily use for LF. I picked up a Novoflex D-in-O to use as a minimalist head for video and 35 mm, and it does a capable job with mirror prefire on my Kowa 6x6, but the Sinar is just too wobbly on it, even with short lenses on a 6" rail. It might just work with a lightweight field model - monorails sit too high for comfort on small heads.

Other well-made but less bulky pan-tilt heads like the smaller Manfrotto and Gitzo video fluid heads don't seem to weigh any less than the Sinar head.

On the other hand, several of the companies making B1 competitors have brought out B0.5 models. Kirk, Novoflex, RRS and Markins all have smaller one-pound ballheads supposedly made to the same standards as the larger models. One of these would probably be your most bombproof bet, if you can live with the ball.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Bill,

Given that your camera weighs only 2.5 lbs., you don't need a really strong head to support it. Bogen and Velbon both make some 3-axis heads that weigh less than a pound. Most of these lightweight heads are only rated to hold about 6 lbs., but given your light weight camera and lenses, you should only be at about 1/2 that rated capacity. One nice thing about these lightweight heads is they are also inexpensive.

I have not personally used any of these ultralight 3-axis heads. So, this is not a recommendation, just a pointer to a few you may want to look into that appear to meet your needs. I have no idea how smooth and easy they are to operate, or what their long term reliability is like. You'll have to do your own research in those areas.

That said, you may want to check out the:

Velbon PH-145Q - It's a lightweigt (15.2 oz.) three axis head with built in levels. It's listed on the B&H web site at $49.95. From the Velbon web site, it looks like they may be replacing it with a new PH-41Q model (looks identical to me, except for the all-black color).

Bogen / Manfrotto 3437 3D Magnesium Head - Exactly the same weight (15.2 oz.) s the Velbon. The Manfrotto appears to lack built-in levels, but is more compact (no long handles) than the Velbon (and perhaps better made). It's prices at $86.95 at B&H.

Moving up from there in price and weight, the Gitzo G2270M is about 1.65 lbs. and is priced around $240. It's rated to hold 12 lbs. So, your little Nagaoka would be a piece of cake. It also comes in a couple other flavors (with quck release or smaller platform). I thought Gitzo used to make some smaller 100/1000 series pant/tilt heads, but these days it looks like the 2270 and 1570 is all they make.

Other than that, if you REALLY want to save some weight, a ballhead is the way to go. There are lots of options in the 1 pound or less range that will EASILY support you little Nagaoka. For backpacking, I use a little Velbon PH-253MG that weighs all of 6 oz. to support my Toho (2 lb. 12.5 oz.). I wouldn't recommend this head for any camera over 3 lbs. (and even that is pushing it). There are lots of other options in the 8 - 16 ounce range. It just depends on how much you want to spend.

Kerry

[Bill_1856]

Thanks for contributing, Kerry. Yours is an opinion that I always trust. I've been looking at the Velbon, and think that it will probably do the job. If not, I can always send it back.

For a small ball head I've always used the tall Leica head -- it's awfully hard to beat (especially when I bought it new for $10 some 50 years ago), but definitely won't work for 4x5.