Leaving Kodak for Ilford paper developer

[Fred V]

Today I mixed yet another contaminated (brown) batch of Kodak Dektol. I finally reached a point of frustration which is driving me to try an Ilford paper developer. I primarily print on Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe. Any suggestions on an Ilford product similar to Dektol.

I appreciate your help.

[Molli]

I went from Ilford Multigrade Paper Developer (Diluted 1+9) to mixing my own D72 (Dektol) 1+2 purely because it costs me so much to ship liquids.
I'm merely an amateur hobbyist, but I can't see any difference between the two.

[paulbarden]

Like you, I won't buy Dektol again, after the mess "Kodak" made of their chemistry in recent times. I'm making my own ID-78 (a warm tone developer) (http://lostlabours.co.uk/photography/formulae/developers/devID78.htm) from scratch now. Its cheap and easy.

[Tin Can]

I like PQ

[Michael R]

Ilford Multigrade will produce virtually identical results on most papers, as will Bromophen.


Today I mixed yet another contaminated (brown) batch of Kodak Dektol. I finally reached a point of frustration which is driving me to try an Ilford paper developer. I primarily print on Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe. Any suggestions on an Ilford product similar to Dektol.

I appreciate your help.

[Bernice Loui]

Get a copy of M&M Photo LAB index, ring bound edition.
Lots of GOOD useful information and collection of Developer and MUCH more formula (recipe) to mix up as needed.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224482283244?epid=233330&hash=item34442fceec:g:0cEAAOSwIitgto5w

Great advantage to mixing your own darkroom chemistry from powdered chemistry, it is always fresh at the volume of chemistry needed to do the volume of processing needed. Waste reduction and known fresh-good chemistry. Mixing your own is NOT that difficult, if powdered chemistry can be mixed from a bag, mixing the entire chemistry is not that much more difficult.

Get a gram scale, basic lab glassware (500mL & 1000mL beaker/ flask) magnetic stirring plate with magnetic teflon stirring bar, basic set of powdered chemistry.

Having done this for decades, it works far better than purchasing bags of chemistry or bottles of developers that go bad when least expected.


Bernice







Today I mixed yet another contaminated (brown) batch of Kodak Dektol. I finally reached a point of frustration which is driving me to try an Ilford paper developer. I primarily print on Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe. Any suggestions on an Ilford product similar to Dektol.

I appreciate your help.

[PRJ]

Just start mixing it yourself. Easy to do. Just need a scale and some chems. You will never have to worry about it again.

My main developer for the last decade or so has been ID78 to which Paul has given a link above. I also mix up other developers at times. Last night I mixed up E72 which is a phenidone/ascorbic acid developer.

I was never fond of Dektol. The tones always looked off to me. Too greenish.

[Jim Noel]

Just don't buy too much Metol at once. It is the ingredient that oxidizes, turns brown and stinks. I often use it when it has turned tan, but if dark brown, out it goes.

[Dugan]

I have standardized on Rodinal.
Liquid, one-shot, keeps forever. Versatile via dilution.
I don't obsess over grain...I'd rather have sharp grain than mushy grain. I don't have room for a large assortment of chemicals.

[paulbarden]

I have standardized on Rodinal.
Liquid, one-shot, keeps forever. Versatile via dilution.
I don't obsess over grain...I'd rather have sharp grain than mushy grain. I don't have room for a large assortment of chemicals.

The OP was asking for suggestions for an alternative to Dektol. I doubt Rodinal would work as a substitute. (and Rodinal does NOT last "forever". I've found a half-full bottle will expire within 8-10 months.)

[Doremus Scudder]

I have standardized on Rodinal.
Liquid, one-shot, keeps forever. Versatile via dilution.
I don't obsess over grain...I'd rather have sharp grain than mushy grain. I don't have room for a large assortment of chemicals.

Uh, I think we're talking about paper developers here...

Anyway, I second the motion of mixing your own (although Bromophen is really nice - just more expensive).

However, I like to keep things simple. No magnetic stirrers needed, and no weighing things out except for making the stock solution of benzotriazole for ID-62 below. Spoon recipes are fine and perfectly accurate enough for print developers.

Here are my spoon recipes for D-72 (Dektol, for all intents and purposes) and ID-62 (Bromophen clone):

D-72
(to make 1 liter of working solution)

Water -------------------- 120°F
a pinch of sodium sulfite (Metol dissolves better if you add a bit of sulfite first - a pinch is all you need)
Metol --------------------- 1/3 tsp (you won't find a measuring spoon this size, but just estimate, it's not critical)
Sodium Sulfite ------------- 2 tsp
Hydroquinone -------------- 1/2 Tbsp short (i.e., just a bit less than 1/2 Tbsp - again, it's not critical)
Sodium carbonate (mono) -- 1 1/2 Tbsp
Potassium bromide --------- 1/8 tsp
Water to make ------------- 1 liter

(Triple the above recipe to make a 1-liter stock solution that you dilute 1+2)

ID-62
(to make 2 liters of working solution - Note: it's easier to make this in a larger quantity due to the small amount of phenidone needed. Alternately, you can simply double the recipe below and have a 1-liter stock solution that you then dilute 1+3 for a working solution; that's what I do mostly.)
Water --------------------- 120°F (or higher)
Sodium sulfite -------------- 1 Tbsp + 1/4 tsp
Hydroquinone -------------- 2 1/8 tsp
Sodium carbonate (mono) -- 2 Tbsp
Phenidone ----------------- 1/8 tsp
Potassium bromide --------- rounded 1/8 tsp
Benzotriazole -------------- 16 ml of a 1% solution (which you make up beforehand - 100g/liter - keeps forever)

You could leave out the benzotriazole and up the potassium bromide to 1/4 tsp and get similar, if maybe a bit warmer, results.

ID-62 is my current favorite. If you really need to buy pre-packaged, there are lots of Dektol clones out there as well as good PQ developers like Bromophen.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[Dugan]

Oops.
Sorry about that.
I jumped the gun, didn't read carefully. I thought it was an "alternatives to Kodak chemistry in general" thread, from the title.....
Mea culpa.

[Doremus Scudder]

Oops.
Sorry about that.
I jumped the gun, didn't read carefully. I thought it was an "alternatives to Kodak chemistry in general" thread, from the title.....
Mea culpa.

The same approach applies to film developers as well, however :)

D-76 and D-23 are easy to mix from scratch and there are lots of other commercial formulas available as concentrates or kits (HC-110 substitutes from many manufacturers, PMK, Rodinal, Pyrocat, etc., etc.)

[Michael Graves]

It isn't just Kodak. I've had to have the last two orders of 130 paper developer I purchased from Photographer's formulary replaced because on adding the last ingredient to the mix from their lot, it turned an opaque black.

[Renato Tonelli]

It isn't just Kodak. I've had to have the last two orders of 130 paper developer I purchased from Photographer's formulary replaced because on adding the last ingredient to the mix from their lot, it turned an opaque black.

I suspect that the Glycin was too old (discolored); I have several kits (3+ years old) of it but I need to replace the discolored Glycin with freshly bought Glycin. A minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless.

[Chauncey Walden]

Ansco 130.

[Drew Wiley]

Just mix your own developer out of fresh chemicals. It's easy, and there are plenty of good formulas to choose from. You'll save a lot of money over the long run too. But if contemplating 130 (an excellent paper developer), don't buy kits, but individual bulk chemicals from Formulary. Fresh glycin is yellowish off-white. It can be preserved from oxidation by freezing it, tightly sealed.

[Fred V]

On a related note, what would a good scale cost?

[thornhill]

On a related note, what would a good scale cost?

I'm using a jeweler's electronic digital scale that was under $20. Plenty accurate and weighs up to 500 grams. I was using a gunpowder reloading balance beam, but digital is much faster.

[paulbarden]

On a related note, what would a good scale cost?

I have one of those cheap digital scales that cost me about $15, and its been in service for 3 years now and continues to work well. It came with a 100g weight to calibrate it. I routinely measure amounts as small as 0.2 grams and it has been reliable for such measurements. However, these are fairly delicate devices and are known to be easily broken if dropped, so if you're the clumsy sort, it might not be the best option. See:AWS Scales on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DPHXYFM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[John Kasaian]

Clayton works for me.

[Duolab123]

I've used Ilford Bromophen for decades, I love it no metol, it's a PQ type. A 5 L package of Bromophen will make 20 L of working solution. Very clean, keeps very well in full bottles.
I'm through with Kodak branded chemistry. Plenty of as good or better. Maybe things will improve. The brown Dektol shows how bad their vendor base is.

[otto.f]

I use Moersch eco 4812, insanely good, deep blacks, shelf life unsurpassed, just great. For both multigrade and fixed papers. https://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/shop/positiv/110/lang:en

[Mark Sawyer]

Mixing it yourself isn't a big deal, I used to have my high school students do it. Mind you, it was at the height of the Harry Potter movies, so we called it "Developing Potion". And we labeled Metol as "Eye of Newt" and Sodium Sulfite was "powdered Unicorn horn", and we waved wands around a lot while mixing it...

The Physics teacher once complained about me... :)

[Fred V]

The same approach applies to film developers as well, however :)

D-76 and D-23 are easy to mix from scratch and there are lots of other commercial formulas available as concentrates or kits (HC-110 substitutes from many manufacturers, PMK, Rodinal, Pyrocat, etc., etc.)

I called the "Formulary" asking what ingredients I needed to mix my own Dektol but because it is proprietary they did not know which ingredients are included.

Fred

[Michael R]

Dektol is D-72. To make 1l stock solution:

800ml water at 40-50C. (distilled water may be preferable depending on your water quality). Add each of the following ingredients in this order. Each ingredient should be fully dissolved (by stirring) before adding the next.

3g Metol
45g Sodium sulfite anhydrous
12g Hydroquinone
80g Sodium carbonate monohydrate
2g Potassium bromide

Add cold water to make 1l.

For use, dilute 1+2 with water (1 part stock + 2 parts water)



I called the "Formulary" asking what ingredients I needed to mix my own Dektol but because it is proprietary they did not know which ingredients are included.

Fred

[Fred V]

Dektol is D-72. To make 1l stock solution:

800ml water at 40-50C. (distilled water may be preferable depending on your water quality). Add each of the following ingredients in this order. Each ingredient should be fully dissolved (by stirring) before adding the next.

3g Metol
45g Sodium sulfite anhydrous
12g Hydroquinone
80g Sodium carbonate monohydrate
2g Potassium bromide

Add cold water to make 1l.

For use, dilute 1+2 with water (1 part stock + 2 parts water)

Thank You!

[John Layton]

...another Moersch 4812 user here for the reasons Otto mentions above - plus its great for working in large, open trays...and when it does eventually die - it goes fast! Also make some use of Moersch SE-6 cold tone developer...but specifically with Ilford Warm Tone (fiber) VC - just stunning for certain images, results can almost remind me of the old, cadmium-laced Portriga Rapid.

[LabRat]

Look up the formula for Neutrol (Agfa 100) @ 1:1 or 1:2 dilution... Economical to make, neutral in tone, lasts long in use and bottle...

Tames contrast of cold tone papers, while opening up sparkling mid-tones without heavy blacks and a well modulated look, and slightly cools warm tone papers with little cast...

Great "universal" paper developer... ;-)

Steve K

[esearing]

Also make some use of Moersch SE-6 cold tone developer...but specifically with Ilford Warm Tone (fiber) VC - just stunning for certain images, results can almost remind me of the old, cadmium-laced Portriga Rapid.

When I think of old Portriga I think of warm brownish tones. But per Moersch, SE-6 with MGW creates a cooler tone image. On a scale of Blueish cold to Neutral to warm Brown where would this combo fall in your experience?

[Michael R]

In addition to Moersch SE-6 (which is a wonderful developer and the only commercially available formula which can actually make current papers shift substantially to cold/blue-black), a few additional notes for those interested:

-For milder “neutralization”, Moersch SE-3 is also nice

-Moersch sells a developer additive called Finisher Blue. The active ingredient in this is PMT (a powerful anti-foggant). You add small amounts of this to any standard print developer and get any amount of shift you want from neutralization all the way to blue-black. Experiment to taste depending on paper etc. It works wonderfully with warm tone papers such as MGWT. Photographers Formulary used to sell PMT, but it is not currently listed in their online chemicals. I sent them a note about it recently but haven’t heard back. A few years ago I did an extensive series of tests/experiments with PMT and found it to work very well with Ilford papers as well as MCC-110 at the time.

-When using developers such as SE-6, if you use selenium toner you might find you need to adjust your toning but of course this depends on what you want to see, type of paper etc. etc.

[JMO]

Dektol is D-72. To make 1l stock solution:

800ml water at 40-50C. (distilled water may be preferable depending on your water quality). Add each of the following ingredients in this order. Each ingredient should be fully dissolved (by stirring) before adding the next.

3g Metol
45g Sodium sulfite anhydrous
12g Hydroquinone
80g Sodium carbonate monohydrate
2g Potassium bromide

Add cold water to make 1l.

For use, dilute 1+2 with water (1 part stock + 2 parts water)


Gentlemen,

I also checked the MSDSheet for Dektol from Kodak Alaris, and it shows the formula contains the following:

percent
50 - 55 Sodium carbonate, monohydrate (5968-11-6)
30 - 35 Sodium sulphite (7757-83-7)
5 - 10 Hydroquinone (123-31-9)

1-5 Bis(4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate (55-55-0) aka "Metol"
1-5 Polyphosphoric acids, sodium salts (68915-31-1)
1-5 Potassium bromide (7758-02-3)
0.1 - < 1 Boric anhydride (1303-86-2)

The ingredient in red font would be something like TSP or tri-sodium phosphate, which is also available from Photographers Formulary.

[Michael R]

That ingredient is a calcium sequestering agent. In this case it is sodium hexametaphosphate aka "calgon".

The last ingredient (boric anhydride) is a sequestering agent which allows for everything to be packaged in one bag and dissolved together. Kodak had several patents on methods for allowing single packaging.


Gentlemen,

I also checked the MSDSheet for Dektol from Kodak Alaris, and it shows the formula contains the following:

percent
50 - 55 Sodium carbonate, monohydrate (5968-11-6)
30 - 35 Sodium sulphite (7757-83-7)
5 - 10 Hydroquinone (123-31-9)

1-5 Bis(4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate (55-55-0) aka "Metol"
1-5 Polyphosphoric acids, sodium salts (68915-31-1)
1-5 Potassium bromide (7758-02-3)
0.1 - < 1 Boric anhydride (1303-86-2)

The ingredient in red font would be something like TSP or tri-sodium phosphate, which is also available from Photographers Formulary.

[Doremus Scudder]

I called the "Formulary" asking what ingredients I needed to mix my own Dektol but because it is proprietary they did not know which ingredients are included.

Fred

Michael has your formula, or use the spoon recipe that I posted earlier. D-72 is super-easy to mix; easier than packaged Dektol, and gives great results. Once you've acquired the stock chemicals and printed a time or two, you'll hit the break-even point and see the savings. Plus, you never have to toss old developer; just mix what you need when you need it.

An aside: The people at the Formulary should have known enough to point you to D-72; I'm surprised at the lack of knowledge (or the subterfuge) on their part...

Doremus