Not understanding Toyo Base Tilt Front and Rear

[jrickards615]

This is part of the specifications of a couple of Toyo cameras with a value of 90° + 15°. Does this mean that the camera doesn't have back tilt?

[Tin Can]

Name that camera!

[Benjamin]

I second what Tin Can said: specify which Toyo models you're looking at and people will be able to answer very quickly.

[jrickards615]

The Toyo Field 45AII http://www.toyoview.com/Products/45CF/45CF.html is one of theirs that has this specification.

[Tin Can]

It can tilt forward up to 90 and has 15 degree rear tilt

But now you know that

[Doremus Scudder]

The tilt specs are somewhat confusing.

The problem with the specifications is that they often don't take into account that the bellows get in the way (especially the specs for the base tilts).

No one is going to tilt either standard 90° from its starting position; the spec is there just to show the mechanical possibilities.

So, to the camera specs you linked to:

"Specifications
Reversible Vertical / Horizontal Back.........YES
Front Tilt.........................................15° + 15° (I understand this to be axis tilts in addition to base tilts; 15° in either direction)
Manual Front Rise.....................49mm (28.5 rise, 20.5mm fall) (this is clear)
Manual Front Shift.....................28.5 + 28.5 mm (28.5mm shift in either direction)
Manual Front Swing.....................20°+20° (20° swing in either direction)
Base Tilt front & rear.....................90°+15° (Here's the confusion: you *could* tilt 90° one direction if you removed the bellows. I'm assuming that that direction is forward for the front standard and back for the back standard. Tilt the other direction is 15°, more than enough for most situations.)
Tapered bellows.....................Yes
Drop bed design.....................drops 15°
Minimum Bellows Extension.....................3.16” (80.3mm)
Maximum bellows extension.....................14.04” (356.7mm)
Geared Focus.....................142mm
Longest Lens with maximum bellows draw.....................400mm
Shortest Lens with flat Lens Board.....................90mm
Weight.....................3.42 lbs.
Folded Dimensions.....................7.91(H) x 6.97(W) x 4(D)"

As mentioned above, the 15° tilt, while not hugely generous, is enough for all but the most extreme situations and typical for full-featured field cameras like this.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[Jim Andrada]

From looking at the link to the camera specs, I think they're being a bit less that straightforward in how they describe this. If you drop the bed 15 degrees and then level the bed, the back will be tilted 15 degrees. I wonder if that's what they're referring to as back tilt??? Don't have the camera so I don't really know, but unless they've done something like Linhof did with the Technika or have a way to lock the bed drop at intermediate positions it doesn't look like there's real back tilt.

[reddesert]

From looking at the link to the camera specs, I think they're being a bit less that straightforward in how they describe this. If you drop the bed 15 degrees and then level the bed, the back will be tilted 15 degrees. I wonder if that's what they're referring to as back tilt??? Don't have the camera so I don't really know, but unless they've done something like Linhof did with the Technika or have a way to lock the bed drop at intermediate positions it doesn't look like there's real back tilt.

I don't have one of these, but if you look at a better picture of the 45AII there are big knobs on the lower side of the body, each side. I believe these are used to loosen/lock a continuous back tilt. There is a picture in the listing at https://kamerastore.com/product/toyo-45aii-4x5-camera-with-rodenstock-mc-150mm-210mm-lenses-holders/ that shows the movements in action (showing the camera tied into a bigger knot than you would ever really do with a field camera).

[Jim Noel]

If this is the model with a plastic body, we had one at the college. The 1st time it was put on a tripod by the lab tech, the body cracked and was unusable.

[Greg Y]

If this is the model with a plastic body, we had one at the college. The 1st time it was put on a tripod by the lab tech, the body cracked and was unusable.

The CF is the carbonfiber model. I agree with you. My friends at The Camera Store let me have one for the weekend. I was not convinced it was worth the saving in weight & happily returned it quickly on monday morning!

[Chuck Pere]

Here's some specs from an instruction book for Toyo 45AII.

[Rod Klukas]

The 45A does indeed use the large knobs to create rear tilt. Note the more rear tilt used the more you must stop the lens down to expand the depth of focus to accommodate the movement. It is a base movement so it should be focus far and tilt near.
It will be fine for landscape or non regular shipped objects, but not so good for Architecture if used to extreme as it introduces distortion. Front tilt can increase depth of field, but does introduce distortion, while rear tilt does.
The camera was solid, but had one flaw. To use front shift, or swing, the front standard had to be unlocked, which meant the focus could change while shifting, and focusing would then need to be corrected.

Also many people lost the rail locks in the base of the body as they would unscrew easily and needed constant checking to see if they were tight.

Hope this is helpful.