D-76; Mixing Small Batch?

[martiansea]

I bought one of those packets of D-76 powder that's intended for making a gallon of stock. I'm wondering if it is fine to instead measure out smaller portions of it to make, say, 500mL at a time? It seems this would be fine, but maybe I'd run into a problem of one component being out of proportion because of the powder being mixed unevenly? What if I shake it up first, would it get an even distribution? Would some component being heavier than another cause uneven distribution even if shaken up? Does this matter, should I just try it?

[sharktooth]

No, I wouldn't split up prepackaged powder developer. D76 is cheap and has a reasonably good shelf life. A gallon package probably cost about the same as 2 sheets of 4x5 film, so it's a false savings to to cheap out there.

[martiansea]

Not so much about cheaping out, more about wanting it to be fresh when I use it. I don't see myself going through a gallon very quickly, because I've got several developers in rotation right now. But it says 1 gallon is good for 16 8x10 sheets, so if I stick with this for most of the next box I open, maybe I'll use it up before it goes bad from age. Depends on if I like what I see...

[jp]

Mix up the gallon, store in 1L bottles filled to the top with no room for air. The full bottles of stock will last a very long time, while only one bottle is open and aging.

[sharktooth]

Mix up the gallon, store in 1L bottles filled to the top with no room for air. The full bottles of stock will last a very long time, while only one bottle is open and aging.

That's the ideal way to do it for maximum life.

Keep in mind that if you open the powder and only use a small amount, the remaining powder will now be exposed to air and humidity, and will likely be bad by the time you go to make another batch. If you mix up a gallon now, and only use a small portion of it, you've only lost the cost of the remaining developer (which is next to nothing), so just buy some more.

[Jim Noel]

I have mixed this by the spoonful since i was in high school in the 40's.
Shake the package until you are sure the settled powders have dispersed, then shake it that much again.
The measurements for D-76 are:
Straight - One Qt - 1/4C+1Tbs in 32Oz H2O
1:1 " - 2Tbs in 29 oz H2O
1:2 " - 1T +1tsp in 29oz H2O

Be sure to squeeze al the air possible from package before resealing it securely.
Hope this helps.

[domaz]

Or if you want true small batch artisanal developer that is easy to mix, just buy the two ingredients needed for D-23 and scratch mix small batches yourself. http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/D-23.php

[Randy]

+1 on the D-23. I have loved D-76 and am just as happy with the D-23 per Ken Lee's recommendation..

[jp]

I'm not a fan of mixing powder every time I want to develop film, simply because it's going to get chemical powder about your darkroom faster than if you did it once per gallon for example. I'm sure the d23 and d76 are quite harmless, but working with things wet is cleaner. (e.g. asbestos removal is ideally done wet)

[Randy]

I don't like mixing powder either. I really wanted to like Rodinal but the results with my Ilford films suck. I do use it with X-ray film still though.

[martiansea]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. It confirms my suspicions that I could go either way with this. I'm encouraged by Jim's experiences of mixing small batches, so I will at least try it once to see how it works out for me. As has been said, D-76 is cheap, which is why feel an urge to play around with it and see if something might come from a happy accident.

Has anyone ever tried making a concentrate? I wonder if maybe that would keep longer. Truthfully, part of the reason I don't want to mix a whole gallon is because I don't want to store a gallon physically. I like working with concentrates; HC-110, Rodinal, Pyro, etc...

I had read Kenneth Lee's article about D-23 just recently. It's certainly on my list of developers to try. I've been taking photos my whole life, but only been processing my own film for a little over 4 years, and I'm still in the "try everything possible and find my favorite" stage. I've found a few favorites, but looking through the dozens of recipes available out there, I feel like I won't be satisfied until I've tried nearly all.

[martiansea]

I really wanted to like Rodinal but the results with my Ilford films suck. I do use it with X-ray film still though.
This has been my experience too! Way too much sharp ugly grain with many films I tried it with, but with X-ray film, it is somehow magically perfect with no perceptible grain and beautiful sharpness.

[Michael R]

D-23 was formulated to be very similar to D-76, and they are very close.

Here is another very simple option for you - use Ilford ID-11, which is D-76, and still comes in 1l quantities so you don’t have to mix a gallon, which I agree is a pain in the ass. :)


Thanks for the suggestions everybody. It confirms my suspicions that I could go either way with this. I'm encouraged by Jim's experiences of mixing small batches, so I will at least try it once to see how it works out for me. As has been said, D-76 is cheap, which is why feel an urge to play around with it and see if something might come from a happy accident.

Has anyone ever tried making a concentrate? I wonder if maybe that would keep longer. Truthfully, part of the reason I don't want to mix a whole gallon is because I don't want to store a gallon physically. I like working with concentrates; HC-110, Rodinal, Pyro, etc...

I had read Kenneth Lee's article about D-23 just recently. It's certainly on my list of developers to try. I've been taking photos my whole life, but only been processing my own film for a little over 4 years, and I'm still in the "try everything possible and find my favorite" stage. I've found a few favorites, but looking through the dozens of recipes available out there, I feel like I won't be satisfied until I've tried nearly all.

[Ben Calwell]

Having trouble understanding why D23 is economical to use if one discards it after each use. I mix up a liter of it and then reuse it several times, saving it in a brown bottle. If you mix a liter fresh every time, you’ll burn through the powdered chemicals pretty quick.

[Jim Noel]

D-23 was formulated to be very similar to D-76, and they are very close.

Here is another very simple option for you - use Ilford ID-11, which is D-76, and still comes in 1l quantities so you don’t have to mix a gallon, which I agree is a pain in the ass. :)

D-23 is a much older formula than D-76.
I am also a user of D-23 when the occasion calls for it. I mix it from raw chemicals and dispose of it only after using it for up to a year or so. The reused chemistry has qualities which most users don't know about. there is nothing equal to D-23 which has developed several hundred sqin of film when developing negatives of flat subjects in flat light.
Sometimes it pays to be in this business for 80+ years and the knowledge that comes with that experience.

[Michael R]

Hi Jim,

It’s actually the other way around. D-76 was the late 1920s, while D-23 was mid 1940s.


D-23 is a much older formula than D-76.
I am also a user of D-23 when the occasion calls for it. I mix it from raw chemicals and dispose of it only after using it for up to a year or so. The reused chemistry has qualities which most users don't know about. there is nothing equal to D-23 which has developed several hundred sqin of film when developing negatives of flat subjects in flat light.
Sometimes it pays to be in this business for 80+ years and the knowledge that comes with that experience.

[h2oman]

I started out using D-76, and successfully mixed half a packet at a time. I then changed to DDX, but often wouldn't use up for some time and ended up throwing away occasionally. I recently switched to D-23 (using the recipe at Ken Lee's page), and am happy with that.

[neil poulsen]

Mix up the gallon, store in 1L bottles filled to the top with no room for air. The full bottles of stock will last a very long time, while only one bottle is open and aging.

What JP said.

Mixing it in smaller quantities assumes that the various chemicals have been mixed homogeneously. That's OK when the different chemicals are liquid and are in solution. (Like HC110.) It's not OK when they're powders.

When working in a darkroom, one of the best allies one can have is consistency. Don't throw it away trying to make smaller quantities.

Especially with D76, there are recipes available where one can mix their own powder D76. A second option would be to make multiple batches of fractional recipes, and then put each in a pill bottle or something and store them on a shelf. These fractional recipes would be available when needed to make fractional batches.

[LabRat]

I had asked many years ago a knowledgeable industry professional if I could divide a packaged developer, and he said NO... Even after componding the basic chems, they were mixed together on something called "shaker tables" that distributed the finer powders with the heavier crystals to make consistent batches of packaged formulas... (Many years later I saw shaker tables in use while doing a pro job in a cooking spice company that was a room full of pool table sized machines with a large flat top that vibrated loudly and filled the air with red chili dust you shouldn't breath or be in the room while operating...)

During shipment, the chems re-settle and change the proportions in the package... Probably enough to slightly change the mix for doing critical work, but would work for other uses... Some very fine development agents could be affected, like phenidone, which is a fine light powder in very small proportions...

If you are not making your own D-76 or other developers from scratch, you are crazy... Four inexpensive ingredients, a scale & mixing stuff, and it's fresh and consistent every time... And VERY cheap!!!

Steve K

[Ironage]

1 second the mix your own developer opinion. Formulas for D-76 are mixed for 1 liter batches.

[martiansea]

Happy to see some good discussion here, and I'm grateful for the variety of suggestions both pro and con. It seems I will definitely be mixing up my own developers from scratch in the very near future. I've been doing this with various alt printing chemicals for a few years already; kallitype, argyrotype, and so on... so, it's only natural I'd start rolling my own developers as well.

[paulbarden]

Happy to see some good discussion here, and I'm grateful for the variety of suggestions both pro and con. It seems I will definitely be mixing up my own developers from scratch in the very near future. I've been doing this with various alt printing chemicals for a few years already; kallitype, argyrotype, and so on... so, it's only natural I'd start rolling my own developers as well.

I recommend DIY developers as well. When "Kodak" had so many issues with their developers last year (Xtol, D-76 and Dektol) I decided to buy the component ingredients (ArtCraft) and make my own, as needed. I've been very happy with making D-76 and D-23 from scratch. It takes a few minutes to measure everything, but its far from difficult, and as a reward you get chemistry you KNOW you can trust.

[wclark5179]

Just an idea that works for me.

I use empty 2 liter soda bottles to store my stock developing solutions. The plastic doesn’t react with the chemicals and the lid seals it over and over. There are 3.7 liters to a gallon. I store the bottles in a lower level bathroom cabinet which is dark and low temps. You can even use a green colored bottle if you wish like 7Up. I use the clear bottles. You can even find some sodas in one liter bottles. Easy to clean and reuse.

[martiansea]

Ah yes, I generally use 1L plastic seltzer bottles for storing my mixed Perceptol and Microphen, and they've worked out very well. I put my Pyrocat HD in 100mL amber glass bottles, which seemed a wiser choice for that.

Speaking of Perceptol and Microphen, these are two of my favorite developers at the moment, and I'd be interested in making my own from scratch if possible. Can anyone direct me to recipes for them, or at least give more info about what kind of developers they are? I have Steve Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook, but I'm unsure which recipes would be closest to these. I've gotten some ideas from the reading, but I'd like to know more specifically.

[Merg Ross]

Ah yes, I generally use 1L plastic seltzer bottles for storing my mixed Perceptol and Microphen, and they've worked out very well. I put my Pyrocat HD in 100mL amber glass bottles, which seemed a wiser choice for that.

Speaking of Perceptol and Microphen, these are two of my favorite developers at the moment, and I'd be interested in making my own from scratch if possible. Can anyone direct me to recipes for them, or at least give more info about what kind of developers they are? I have Steve Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook, but I'm unsure which recipes would be closest to these. I've gotten some ideas from the reading, but I'd like to know more specifically.

Perceptol is D-23 with the addition of Sodium Chloride. Try this: Metol 5grms, Sodium Sulphite 100 grms, Sodium Chloride 30 grms, Water 1 liter (distilled)

[Michael R]

Ah yes, I generally use 1L plastic seltzer bottles for storing my mixed Perceptol and Microphen, and they've worked out very well. I put my Pyrocat HD in 100mL amber glass bottles, which seemed a wiser choice for that.

Speaking of Perceptol and Microphen, these are two of my favorite developers at the moment, and I'd be interested in making my own from scratch if possible. Can anyone direct me to recipes for them, or at least give more info about what kind of developers they are? I have Steve Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook, but I'm unsure which recipes would be closest to these. I've gotten some ideas from the reading, but I'd like to know more specifically.

Perceptol is roughly:

5g/l metol
100g/l sodium sulfite
25-30g/l sodium chloride

Microphen is similar to ID-68, which is a published formula - easy to find.

[Drew Wiley]

There are some other ingredients listed on present Perceptol boxes. And certainly at higher dilutions it doesn't behave like D23. Actually, I never found them quite similar at any dilution. But if I might be permitted to say so without offending anyone's intelligence, sodium chloride is not synonymous with table salt, which actually has added ingredients like not only iodine, but titanium dioxide whitener, just like toothpaste and house paint.

[Michael R]

There are some other ingredients listed on present Perceptol boxes. And certainly at higher dilutions it doesn't behave like D23. Actually, I never found them quite similar at any dilution. But if I might be permitted to say so without offending anyone's intelligence, sodium chloride is not synonymous with table salt, which actually has added ingredients like not only iodine, but titanium dioxide whitener, just like toothpaste and house paint.

Packaged Perceptol also contains sodium tripolyphosphate but that’s just a chelating agent, not photographically active.

[Drew Wiley]

I'd have to tear open a new box. Some of that info is written on the inside. And I threw away the last box of early formula once it got as hard as a brick, although I pounded the caked powder apart enough to soak it into solution, and it actually worked perfectly fine, thirty years after I bought it! An "un-chelating agent" in that case would be synonymous with a jackhammer.

[LabRat]

I used to make up Microphen (ID-68?) from scratch when I did theatrical photography using 35mm Tri-X... Gave me a true push to EI800 with very fine grain, contrast range that a spot lit figure and a non-spotlit figure in same frame could both be printed together with detail in both, exceptional shadow detail, very good sharpness, and tonality like it was shot with a SG 4X5... Used the Tri-X after 2475 Recording film was not availible anymore and needed a faster film... Didn't like the fast Tmax, and the Tri-X behaved like a slower film with a higher EI...

Order an older copy of British Journal of Photography yearbook (very cheap) at a used bookstore or online, and go to the appendix in the back for the color and B/W formula section for the recipes for the FX series of developers... Only issue might be many formulas will require an EI adjustment as a standard when you shoot/develop with them.. Another good source is Camera & Darkroom magazine had a compendium of formula edition, and if you can find the old Dignan newsletters were very informative... The Darkroom Cookbooks are useful, but some errors here and there from bad copying, but you can cross-reference the formula you want to try on the net...

That will keep you busy for a long while...

Steve K

[martiansea]

I mixed up my first batch of D-23 and gave it a try this past weekend. I am very pleased with the results so far, and it seems to have many of the qualities that I like about Perceptol. I'll keep using it and see how it works out for me, and may try some of the Perceptol-like formulas that have been posted here.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

[LabRat]

D-23 is a good formula for large negs that do not need much enlargement, but for very large prints or smaller formats (requiring more enlarging), there can be a slight mushy look due to lesser "edge" sharpness... 120 film shows it at normal enlargement, but slightly improves with the D-25 variation (at loss of some film speed)...

But D-23 has wonderful tonality, and is reusable until it turns dark brown and smells like bad sour sulfur...

Steve K

[Carsten Wolff]

If you had crap results with Rodinal, try HC110 with your Ilfords. Awesome stuff and last for a very long time; not that easy to find outside the US these days.....its like a syrup, so you can fill small bottles if you want to (although I never needed to)