4x5 lens recommendation for fast shutter speeds

[Esstee]

I've recently taken-on a project for large format photography and couldn't be more ecstatic!

My initial plan was to shoot the entire project on 8x10, but I've discovered that that certain images will require shutter speeds at/or around 1/250 - 1/400, and concluded that I might have to fallback to medium format to get the job done - the project itself covers a province that is renown for its wind and heavy seas, which in turn, will require capturing in the work portfolio.

Having said that, and as the initial terms were set on large format, I was wondering if I might gain shutter speeds on a 4x5 system w/Nikkor 90mm f/4.5 and 800 film?

For the record, I don't need any movements whatsoever, and could ultimate resort to using a 6x12 back on a 4x5 system if that would help.
Though other than that, I would love to consider some ideas on how I might achieve the intended results without compromising on the initial terms?

Thanks in advance for all your help with this

[Dan Fromm]

If you're going to use 4x5 and don't need movements and won't need lenses longer than 375 mm and no shorter than 65 mm, a Speed Graphic will do. Curtain shutter, speeds to 1/1000.

[Tobias Key]

I think there are issues beyond shutter speed if you are going to use a large format camera in inclement conditions.

1. Copal 0 and 1 shutters will get you where you need to be in terms of shutter speed but 4x5 and 8x10 usually require quite small f-stops for optimum depth of field so you will need to take that into account. Shooting at f5.6 or f8 in dull weather has a lot of other potential downsides.

2 Large format cameras do not fair well in the wind and are not waterproof so that needs to be considered. If you are going to use a wide angle there are more rigid options than a traditional view camera that might be worth looking at. Otherwise setting up an event shelter and shooting from that might be one way of shooting in wind and rain, or even from the boot of a 4x4?

3. It's quite likely you'll have to push your film too, so that will require some testing. If you pushed HP5 to 1600 that would give you 1/500 at f11 or 1/250 at F16 if we assume 1/500 @ f5.6 is the standard reading for a cloudy day at 400 iso. But would that yield more quality than medium format rated at 400 iso?

There is a lot to think about!

[maltfalc]

a speed graphic and a fast projector lens.

[Ari]

Having said that, and as the initial terms were set on large format, I was wondering if I might gain shutter speeds on a 4x5 system w/Nikkor 90mm f/4.5 and 800 film?

You won't gain any shutter speeds by switching formats, but using higher-speed film will help.
Test your film as much as you can before starting on this, and use the equipment that you're most comfortable with under these conditions.
What matters in the end is the quality of the photographs and if your client is happy. They don't care which format or film you're using.

[Jim Noel]

it is the rare LF shutter which will produce the shutter speeds you are talking about. The only reliable one is a Speed Graphic on which the focal plane shutter has been CLA'd by a reliable repairman recently. NO between the lens shutter is likely to do what you desire.

[SGD]

The only leaf shutter to accomplish that feat is that of the Super Speed Graphic also found on the so-called “Model 1000” Top RF Speed Graphic (in actuality a top RF Crown, but went by the Speed moniker). I’ve put mine on a shutter tester and found the top speed to be shy of a true 1/1000 (closer to 1/700-1/800 depending). I believe there were two or three lenses offered with this shutter but the most common being a pretty garden variety 135mm Rodenstock.

[Bernice Loui]

If stop motion is involved, a medium format camera system WILL do FAR better than any view camera. Larger film does NOT instantly result in higher quality images.

Curious, why and where did the belief-idea larger film is a "better" way over smaller film formats?


Bernice


[QUOTE=Esstee;1601622]

My initial plan was to shoot the entire project on 8x10, but I've discovered that that certain images will require shutter speeds at/or around 1/250 - 1/400, and concluded that I might have to fallback to medium format to get the job done -


***the project itself covers a province that is renown for its wind and heavy seas, which in turn, will require capturing in the work portfolio.***

Having said that, and as the initial terms were set on large format, I was wondering if I might gain shutter speeds on a 4x5 system w/Nikkor 90mm f/4.5 and 800 film?

For the record, I don't need any movements whatsoever, and could ultimate resort to using a 6x12 back on a 4x5 system if that would help.
Though other than that, I would love to consider some ideas on how I might achieve the intended results without compromising on the initial terms?

[QUOTE]

[jp]

I've done those sort of shutter speeds with 8x10 but wouldn't recommend any 8x10 for windy weather.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAjyYixKXm8
It's a speed graphic used as a behind the lens shutter.
If 4x5 then a normal speed graphic might be a good option. Older ones have more shutter speeds.

[LabRat]

Now that you mentioned it, being near shore = higher humidity that can cause the sheet film to buckle badly until it evens out on it's own, so a roll format might behave better...

The Graflex 1000 leaf shutter is not holding up well in time, so not a sure bet to use...

Even 1/500 - 1/1000th sec is kinda slow with heavy surf, so test first if possible...

Steve K

[robphoto]

I did a project a while back where I had to photograph Connecticut offshore lighthouses with 4x5 black and white (4x5 or larger required by HABS/HAER).
What I used was a Crown Graphic (or might have been B&J Press camera), with the standard 127mm(?) lens.
It was from a mid sized motorboat, so you had to hand hold the camera, and I used the sports finder (the wire frame that comes up from the lens board, where you sight through a circle on the back of the camera) Don't crop tight, you need some slack in case your framing isn't perfect.
I used the 1/250 sec shutter speed, and f:16, if I remember right, with Tri-X 320.
It turned out fine. Remember to shoot at least two sheets of everything.
Here is a view of the Stratford Shoals lighthouse attached.
Test this all before you do the real shoot.
Insist on a relatively calm day.
216334

[Jody_S]

I hate to be the one to say this but there are areas where digital is simply better. Stopping waves and ocean spray on days with dramatic skies is one.

If you have to put on a show with your big camera, make sure you get some shots with your phone, too. Or bring a little mirrorless, I'm partial to the little Sony nex cameras.

[Esstee]

I'd like to begin by thanking everyone for your incredible suggestions, tips and feedback - I do appreciate the contributions!



1. Copal 0 and 1 shutters will get you where you need to be in terms of shutter speed but 4x5 and 8x10 usually require quite small f-stops for optimum depth of field so you will need to take that into account. Shooting at f5.6 or f8 in dull weather has a lot of other potential downsides.

2 Large format cameras do not fair well in the wind and are not waterproof so that needs to be considered. If you are going to use a wide angle there are more rigid options than a traditional view camera that might be worth looking at. Otherwise setting up an event shelter and shooting from that might be one way of shooting in wind and rain, or even from the boot of a 4x4?

3. It's quite likely you'll have to push your film too, so that will require some testing. If you pushed HP5 to 1600 that would give you 1/500 at f11 or 1/250 at F16 if we assume 1/500 @ f5.6 is the standard reading for a cloudy day at 400 iso. But would that yield more quality than medium format rated at 400 iso?

Excellent suggestions - will run some tests in the upcoming weeks and follow-up with my findings

Also like your suggestions on the shelter - have used in the past for wildlife and could easily incorporated to protect LF equipment on location
Same for film and shutter combinations - though I'm told that Nikkor SW copal 0 lenses have a good reputation for their rated speeds - any experience with these?


...I used the 1/250 sec shutter speed, and f:16, if I remember right, with Tri-X 320. It turned out fine.
...Remember to shoot at least two sheets of everything.
Here is a view of the Stratford Shoals lighthouse attached.
Test this all before you do the real shoot.
Insist on a relatively calm day.
216334

Most excellent advice and tips - will run some tests this weekend as well as different film speeds and formats and report back here once I get the results


I hate to be the one to say this but there are areas where digital is simply better. Stopping waves and ocean spray on days with dramatic skies is one.
If you have to put on a show with your big camera, make sure you get some shots with your phone, too. Or bring a little mirrorless, I'm partial to the little Sony nex cameras.

As this project moves along, it's become apparent that I'll need an arsenal of tools to tackle some of the more demanding scenes.
With that said, and while I'll do my best to hold-to the medium, I have no intentions of sacrificing any potential frames for equipment - I always bring a few digital camera's with me out in the field for backup

[Esstee]

The only leaf shutter to accomplish that feat is that of the Super Speed Graphic also found on the so-called “Model 1000” Top RF Speed Graphic (in actuality a top RF Crown, but went by the Speed moniker). I’ve put mine on a shutter tester and found the top speed to be shy of a true 1/1000 (closer to 1/700-1/800 depending). I believe there were two or three lenses offered with this shutter but the most common being a pretty garden variety 135mm Rodenstock.

I have never seen, let alone tried a Speed Graphic camera personally, though I'd love to have a go at it

With that said, and unfortunately, I won't have enough time to try out any new equipment before hitting the road this summer, and so I'll need to renounce myself to my existing equipment for the first leg of the project.

PS. I do have a 6x7 camera that will do 1/1000, though I'm thinking a 6x9 or 6x12 might be better suited for the task - taking me back to a 4x5 w/120 back and 1/500 shutter :rolleyes:

[LabRat]

You might also find that very fast speeds on some modern cameras are too fast (like 1/4000th), where the waves look "naked" and incomplete due to the collective way we see fast moving action, so sometimes "slower" fast speeds are used to get a slight blur that looks more natural... But every scene is a little different and not always predictable... There can be a "learning curve" involved for a stream, ocean etc... Sometimes very long exposures (minutes etc) and the scene replicates the same patterns again and again with that ocean blur you see in early sea photographs, so another option...

You might be able to preview this action with a manual digital camera shooting at a range of speeds to see what shutter speed works under those conditions...

Try to practice shooting some moving water someplace (even in a fountain) to learn this tricky medium...

Steve K