The things I don't know... :) Help (Crazy lens movements; lens choices; bellows optio

[RITCHIE]

Hello everyone, I'm brand new to the forum (Canada). I've been searching/reading, but I guess I'll just ask the community.
21yrs experience - fine art | fashion.

I shoot like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10483352@N08/
--- I do a lot of crazy camera movements (pulling zoom while moving). Do you think I can recreate this on an 8x10 camera with floating bellows? YES I'm INSANE!!!


Right now, it's with a Canon 5DMK2 (50ISO, neutral), I've been shooting for over 20yrs. I don't think mega pixels are yielding the clean/large print quality I need now. I started with a Nikormat FT3 (E6 100ASA) Love thick colour.

So here we go, lets get a 8x10 field camera with lenses.

I usually shoot with a 50mm, 70-200mm zoom on my 35mm/5DMK2.
I'm guessing I need for 8x10 camera:
210mm
300mm
450mm
600mm

Can you put a multiplier on a lens?

Bellows option? Floating/non fixed?

8x10 camera body - must be willing to be abused :)

I'm pretty strong, as I do lighting for the film industry as a day job. So weight is not a problem. Results, must be epic, though :)

Please advise... Thank YOU! :)

[j.e.simmons]

I’ve never seen anyone do this, so I’ll be interested in seeing what you do. 8x10 is very cumbersome, so you’ll have to experiment with what movement you can accomplish. Would a ball head help, or would the possible three way movement introduce too much movement? I know you said 8x10, but 4x5 might be easier to handle.
Let us see what you work out.

[Alan9940]

You won't be able to move an 8x10 around much, but you could generate directional blur via slow shutter speed and panning the tripod head. Personally, I'd recommend a 3-way head for this as it would allow you to control the direction of the blur. In general, you can apply a 6x factor to replicate your full frame focal lengths to 8x10. For example, a normal focal length of 50mm on full frame would be equal to 300mm on 8x10. How much abuse are we talking? Most wooden field cameras can't stand much rough handling, but metal ones, like the Calumet C1 (aka Green Monster) could probably be dropped off a building and be fine. :)

[Len Middleton]

Richie,

Suggest you add your location to your signature, as there are a number on this site from Canada.

Your comments, include multiple references to "crazy", so welcome to the insane asylum... The residents are mostly benevolent and non-violent. And helpful.

John's suggestion on using 4x5 is valid, as it will be easier to handle, equipment less expensive and easier to find, and less expensive to shoot. If you want to start with 8x10, then you might consider using photo paper instead of film to learn how to use the equipment, how it works, and the resulting image with manipulations you are looking at doing.

One of the things you will find, is that DOF (Depth of Field) gets real shallow in large format and gets even more shallow as you move up in format (4x5 to 8x10). And of course, same as small format, the longer the lens, the shallower the DOF. Would not start searching for 480mm or 600mm lenses to start.

The nature of large format photography never had a market demand for a lens that changed focal length during composition or exposure, so no zoom lenses in the large format arsenal.

Hope that helps provide some minor insight,

Len

[Tin Can]

Break all rules

and show

Like!

your Flickr

alot

[Tobias Key]

If you want a front standard/bellows that isn't fixed look at the intrepid cameras. Their front standard is loose until it is secured by a bolt to the base so I guess you could work out a way of leaving that free and moving it during exposure. Perhaps with a handle that the bolt from the standard could screw into? Other options would be to prop up the standard with a wedge that you could remove quickly so the lens would drop during exposure - you could do that with the standard secured but the rise/fall control loosened right off.

It might also be worth experimenting with paper negatives or X ray film so you could get the techniques down without spending too much money at first. Ilford direct positive paper has an ISO of 1 to 3 which might be useful for what you are trying to do.

[Bernice Loui]

Images as is done with digital works good.

Question is, why 8x10 film? What potential added value or advantage might 8x10 bring to your images made as exampled?


This is essentially painting with light. Any view camera is not idea for moving around. Even press cameras that were specifically designed for hand held images remains bulky compared to a modern mirrorless or similar small rangefinder film camera.

Suggest instead of moving the camera to achieve this style of expressive image making (painting with light). Set up a view camera on a stand or tripod in a dark room, open the shutter allowing the film to record the light being moved around to essentially paint with light on to the film.

There is a long and rich tradition of view camera images made this way. Indoor architectural images made by setting up a view camera in a dark room, open the shutter-lens to allow film to be exposed by incoming light, the image maker dressed in black can freely move about in the room with a portable strobe essentially painting the image on to film with light.

Robert Buelteman does this style of painting with light, direct on 8x10 film, no camera.
https://www.buelteman.com/


Essentially, transfering your current method of dancing with the lens-camera to produce these images is not realistic, fixing the lens-camera then dancing with the light sources is very do-able.



Bernice








Hello everyone, I'm brand new to the forum (Canada). I've been searching/reading, but I guess I'll just ask the community.
21yrs experience - fine art | fashion.

I shoot like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10483352@N08/
--- I do a lot of crazy camera movements (pulling zoom while moving). Do you think I can recreate this on an 8x10 camera with floating bellows? YES I'm INSANE!!!


Right now, it's with a Canon 5DMK2 (50ISO, neutral), I've been shooting for over 20yrs. I don't think mega pixels are yielding the clean/large print quality I need now. I started with a Nikormat FT3 (E6 100ASA) Love thick colour.

So here we go, lets get a 8x10 field camera with lenses.

I usually shoot with a 50mm, 70-200mm zoom on my 35mm/5DMK2.
I'm guessing I need for 8x10 camera:
210mm
300mm
450mm
600mm

Can you put a multiplier on a lens?

Bellows option? Floating/non fixed?

8x10 camera body - must be willing to be abused :)

I'm pretty strong, as I do lighting for the film industry as a day job. So weight is not a problem. Results, must be epic, though :)

Please advise... Thank YOU! :)

[Oslolens]

Use a light weight 4x5" camera with a bellows, a pinhole, put the camera on a tripod and use it handheld.
As I have done some similar photography myself with a Nokia, as the success factor was pretty low, I would say stay with the Canon for those pictures, and use 8x10" for different effects, especially with the price and time for each picture.
I saw a series of Dali with water and cat-pictures done with 8x10", the success rate was low there also ;)

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[maltfalc]

I usually shoot with a 50mm, 70-200mm zoom on my 35mm/5DMK2.
I'm guessing I need for 8x10 camera:
210mm
300mm
450mm
600mm

Can you put a multiplier on a lens?



7x

[RITCHIE]

HOLY SHHHHNIKES!!! THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION thus far :)

I'm super happy, you are all friendly and willing to share. I also teach and keep all my camera controls open to public viewing on my website. no secrets. I believe in coming up with new stuff, not relying on my old techniques.

Fun Facts about me:
I don't need it to be easy. I like it to be difficult :)
I've been using Photoshop since 2003, it's a superb tool, but I'm in love with the TRUTH. Film is Truth. Getting a perfect shot contains a higher power.
I started shooting in Nov. 4, 2000. My 1st mentor only let me shoot film. I wanted to shoot digital, but he made me promise to stick with film for 5yrs.
He used to rip photographs in half in front of me, to teach me what perfect means... It hurt and cost so much $$$, but gained some confidence.

I guess I'm a sucker for a bad time, let's spend all my hard work on film.
-The reason I'm coming back to film is because I've noticed that I've become even pickier than I used to be. I don't want to use Photoshop at all. A perfect exposure, beats Photoshop in quality (my opinion).
All my new shots (past 2yrs) are not Photoshop'd. I'm happier with them as natural with latitude.

I'm not opposed to 4x5, but I do not want to paint my image with moving lights while I watch, I want the camera to be alive (my new style).

I'm picking 8x10 because it is the largest size I think I can manage right now. I would like to venture into LARGE FORMAT PRINTING. I shoot with the intention of large reproduction. My new stuff is more poetic than scientific.

After looking, it seems my focus is looking for good glass, which I don't know much about. I just read reviews, but I like sharp colour.
It also seems all the old rules I knew about f-stops is out the window too. I believe I have to relearn the f-stops specific to each particular lens I will eventually own.

I like shooting 5.6/f8/f32. I don't like shooting f2.8 anymore(spent half my youth on f2).

I've been staying up until 6am every night just studying Large Format. It's very exciting and beautiful to see you all working/meditating on shots. I believe photography has made me a better quality person. I'm introverted, but used photography to learn to be social. Now I can pretend I'm social, without the camera :)

I'm addicted to the mood in which light can be harnessed. I study it relentlessly. It is the single factor, which separates most of us. LEARN LIGHTING, STUDY LIGHTING, LIVE LIGHTING.
The last shows I helped do lighting on: Deadpool, SEE, Snake Eyes.

So yes, I can set up any light that exists, but I'm very interested in our SUN! :)

Does anyone want to see me glass?
300mm? - I'll take all your notes into consideration. As I'll try to prep a base lens for both 4x5 and 8x10.
-- I still don't know what I want... I'm glad all of you are patient with me to find the right answer.

*Multiplication - are you guys saying I can use my current 50mm (Nikkor f2.8) with a 7x multiplier and fill more than 330mm (8x10 coverage)?

PS: I also don't know how I'm going to achieve/do any of this, but I'm not in charge, the photo is.
- (also what I tell every client who starts to complain while I'm trying to make them good looking).

[RITCHIE]

@Tin Can - probably the nicest thing anyone has every said. I can die now. Thanks :)

[maltfalc]

*Multiplication - are you guys saying I can use my current 50mm (Nikkor f2.8) with a 7x multiplier and fill more than 330mm (8x10 coverage)?

no, 7x is the crop factor/multiplier between 35 mm and 8x10. applies to focal length and f-stop. i assume you're talking about a teleconverter or something.

[RITCHIE]

maltfalc - yes I am, sorry for the confusion. I understand what you are saying. Thanks.

[Jody_S]

I do a lot of crazy camera movements (pulling zoom while moving). Do you think I can recreate this on an 8x10 camera with floating bellows?


AFAIK there are no 'zoom' large format lenses, only varifocal. Meaning changing focal length changes the flange to film distance, so you would have to coordinate racking the bellows with turning the lens. If you put stops on your focus rail, I guess it's possible. But varifocal lenses, esp for 8x10, are uncommon and usually crap.

But there are no limits to how a view camera can be used, and painting with light while changing lenses, aperture or focal point is certainly possible. Seeing your photos, you will quickly find new ways to 'see' with a large format camera, I'm quite sure.

[Jim Noel]

If you really don't want to use Photoshop any longer, delete the program from your computer.

[RITCHIE]

Jody_S -- yes, rotating f-stops was a dream, but probably a super nightmare :)

Jim Noel -- I'm a coward who's been living a lie.

[RITCHIE]

I found a camera rental store in Vancouver:
https://www.beauphoto.com/rentals/rental-film-cameras/#1463677860496-bfd2581e-96a5f317-c40d

To rent for a 1st test run/get a feel for an 8x10 camera:
Cambo 8x10
Caltar II N 360mm f6.8
Tripod

*I need to get film for this camera, which I don't know how to do... Help?
Any recommendations? I know nothing, so anything is helpful :)

This is a nice option to get used to just feeling the 8x10 before purchasing.

[woodlandSerenade]

I need to get film for this camera, which I don't know how to do...
I can't speak to shipping costs to BC, but you can get 8x10 sheet film from online retailers here in the US like B&H and Freestyle Photo.
Unless you're speaking more about film emulsions than actual procurement of the film? In which case, judging by your flickr, you'd probably enjoy something saturated and contrasty. Basically any slide film sold today would fit the bill - Fuji Provia / Velvia, or Kodak Ektachrome for example. A color negative film like Kodak Ektar would also work.
Either way, I hope your wallet is well-fed... 8x10 film isn't inexpensive.
Also, I don't know much about the Cambo monorails, but before renting, I'd recommend making sure the front standard could be easily unmounted from the rail to do the freeform swooping movements you described earlier.

[Dean Lastoria]

Beau in Vancouver is super helpful (Nichole is omniscient) but they only sell Ilford and that's too expensive to play with. In Canada order from Argentix ( https://www.argentix.ca/BWSheet.php?=SID&mqry=sp01.4 ) He's in Quebec, but just as cheep as Freestyle and no Customs. Customs is a killer. He's great. Look at the Fomapan. Also, Anthony at Camera Traders in Victoria is great, but no one has the film that Argentix has and he ships fast. I don't use the express post, but that should be faster. Beau has some great monorail cameras cheep. Get one and pretend it's a rifle. I got a terible 4x5 with a lens and 6 holders for $50.00 last year at Beau. That's less than rental! 8x10 gets pricey.
Note: i knew the 4x5 was terrible and I've used it for the cheep shot challenge. It's great ... and terrible. Not slagging Beau... for $50 (Canadian) it's like a box camera to play with!

[RITCHIE]

woodlandserenade - I used to shoot Kodak Ektachrome 100 (35mm - beautiful blues, well balanced!!!), but probably would like Velvia (juicy colour) for this new project. I see it at B&H :)
- You are correct, the Cambo will not be the camera I need to achieve the results I want. It will probably be used very gently in my studio, just to get a feel for the process. However, it's the only 8x10 that I can find for rent...

Dean - nice you're from BC! HI! :) Thanks for the tip (Argentix) - I used to live in Montreal for 5yrs (Philosophy BA, Concordia). Now I think I should just visit Beau Photo and gawk.

I wonder if anyone has access to 8x10 Slide film in Canada?

[Alan9940]

woodlandserenade - I used to shoot Kodak Ektachrome 100 (35mm - beautiful blues, well balanced!!!), but probably would like Velvia (juicy colour) for this new project. I see it at B&H :)


I've never personally shot Velvia 100, but I've read many mixed reviews about it. If you really want juicy colors, then you want Velvia 50. Just make sure you're sitting when you price it! ;) And, I believe the only way to buy 8x10 Velvia 50 nowadays is directly from Japan.

[abruzzi]

I've never personally shot Velvia 100, but I've read many mixed reviews about it. If you really want juicy colors, then you want Velvia 50. Just make sure you're sitting when you price it! ;) And, I believe the only way to buy 8x10 Velvia 50 nowadays is directly from Japan.

same with 4x5 Velvia 50. None of the Velvia 50 sheet films is available in the US last I looked, though there are sellers that will ship from Japan.

[RITCHIE]

Alan9940; abruzzi - Thanks guys. I do love shooting at 50, so that's cool. Thanks for the info, I didn't know there was that much difference between 50 and 100 ISO in this stock.
Does anyone know the contact in Japan?

[abruzzi]

Does anyone know the contact in Japan?

Check in the classifieds for a seller named B.S. Kumar. I know he sells Fuji films, or at least has in the past.

[RITCHIE]

abruzzi - looking famous right here!